To New Cue Makers - "The Hit" & Philosophy

[scdiveteam]

QA/QC Process Control Procedure

I don't know. Anybody I hear talking themselves up like that, I immediately think they're full of shit.

I'm also not sure I agree with giving cues away for free and expecting an honest evaluation. If I gave out 20 cues, I'd be willing to bet I'd have 20 nut-huggers posting about how great my cues are.

Tony,

I like the way you think and your ability to tell it like it is!!!!

As for giving away 20 cues, this was part of my written QA/QC procedure for holding my process control to the highest standard requiring field testing and verification.

Before I gave anyone a cue, I explained to them as part of my QA/QC procedure, I was giving it to them in exchange for their honest and critical evaluation, good or bad. They also promised to not sell the cue in the used cue market. I did not put any type maker's mark on the cue either.

One thing is for sure, the cues I have sold since the beta testing have passed the smell test for my standards. I can sleep at night as I know that I don't have any cues out their representing my brand that have a negative.

I believe in Quality Control and Quality Assurance. I worked in Nuclear Power Plants as a Nuclear Hard Hat Diver for 30 years and was trained in procedural writing. For my cue making business, I have written a QC Manual that outlines every detail of my process control concerning - Purpose - Discussion - Pre Requisites - Precautions - Limitations & Actions.

Working closely with Darrin Hill, I compiled the manual using 10 CFR 50: Appendex B as my template for all of activities from qualifying vendors, inspections, handling & storage, all machining dimensions, tolerances, joining, finishing and defining all environmental and temperature control issues for storage and applications concerning raw materials and products.

10 CFR 50 Appendix B is the standard applied for Manufacturing, Maintenance, and Operations of all safety related items and systems in Nuclear Power Plants within the US as mandated by the US NRC. Since this is the highest standard, we felt that if we applied cue making to this guidance, it was a cinch to be able to attain the best Proprietary Quality Control for Cue Making in the world. Giving away 20 cues is a small price to pay for such an endeavor. Part of this type of activity requires raising the bar and expectations for every step in the process.

Rick Geschrey

 

[hangemhigh]

To me, as long as you can carry the hit you decide is best in every cue you make you will be just fine.

 

[Tony Zinzola]

Rick -

I don't want you to think I was slamming you for giving away 20 cues. Everybody has their own way of doing things.

I may have come across a bit harsh. I blame that on a couple bottles of Chimay. I haven't even gone back and reread my post, so I hope it at least made some sort of sense.

Sending you a PM too. The rest of what I was going to type here would probably derail your thread too much.

 

[BHQ]

Rick -

I don't want you to think I was slamming you for giving away 20 cues. Everybody has their own way of doing things.

I may have come across a bit harsh. I blame that on a couple bottles of Chimay. I haven't even gone back and reread my post, so I hope it at least made some sort of sense.

Sending you a PM too. The rest of what I was going to type here would probably derail your thread too much.

what the heck is chimay? :thumbup:

the last two times i "gave away " a cue, i got screwed
the last two times somebody told me they were "giving" me something, i also got screwed
neither had anything to do with anyone on here or maybe it did
it certainly changed my way of thinking about "giving"
i must be too gullible , too trusting, too much faith in people
or i should say, WAS
a lesson learned, just one of many :thumbup:

 

[Tony Zinzola]

what the heck is chimay? :thumbup:

the last two times i "gave away " a cue, i got screwed
the last two times somebody told me they were "giving" me something, i also got screwed
neither had anything to do with anyone on here or maybe it did
it certainly changed my way of thinking about "giving"
i must be too gullible , too trusting, too much faith in people
or i should say, WAS
a lesson learned, just one of many :thumbup:

Chimay

I also came up with a new ring design looking at the neck of the bottle.

I hear you there Brent. My 5th or 6th cue had bridged points. I came on here and asked how to do it and basically got told to figure it out. The next day I did some tests and then started on the cue. I did them stacked at the bridges and had somebody who wanted to order one right away. I took his order, then a few weeks later told him I didn't feel comfortable building the cue at this point, so I would prefer not to do it. My price to him was around $450 at that time.

I kept the bridged point cue for myself for a while and every time I had it out, somebody wanted to buy it. I finally put it up for sale on AZ. The price wasn't bad. I think I was asking somewhere around $600 or $800 for the cue. I got a PM from the guy I had canceled the order for. I felt bad about not building him the cue before, so I sold it to him for a lot less. I don't remember if it was the original price I had quoted him or not. He got the cue and a week or two it was posted in the raffle section and he more than doubled his money on the cue. He is now on a very short list of people I will NEVER build a cue for.

I don't mind if somebody sells a cue I sold them for a profit, but this one was a bit different. I feel the same way about guys who sell their spots on a list for cash. If I ever got to the point where I had a list like that and somebody sold their spot, I wouldn't honor it. Why should somebody make money off my name just for putting their name on a list. If they want so spend the cash and buy a cue to sell, that's a different story.

 

[CueCaps]

Saturday Reading..

An Attachment from Thomas Wayne about "Playability".
( The Attachment, about 1/4 way down the page) :

http://www.jimboarmy.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2344

I would have cut and pasted it, but, I wasn't sure if it was cool to do that, hence, the link..

Alton

 

[BHQ]

Chimay

I also came up with a new ring design looking at the neck of the bottle.

I hear you there Brent. My 5th or 6th cue had bridged points. I came on here and asked how to do it and basically got told to figure it out. The next day I did some tests and then started on the cue. I did them stacked at the bridges and had somebody who wanted to order one right away. I took his order, then a few weeks later told him I didn't feel comfortable building the cue at this point, so I would prefer not to do it. My price to him was around $450 at that time.

I kept the bridged point cue for myself for a while and every time I had it out, somebody wanted to buy it. I finally put it up for sale on AZ. The price wasn't bad. I think I was asking somewhere around $600 or $800 for the cue. I got a PM from the guy I had canceled the order for. I felt bad about not building him the cue before, so I sold it to him for a lot less. I don't remember if it was the original price I had quoted him or not. He got the cue and a week or two it was posted in the raffle section and he more than doubled his money on the cue. He is now on a very short list of people I will NEVER build a cue for.

I don't mind if somebody sells a cue I sold them for a profit, but this one was a bit different. I feel the same way about guys who sell their spots on a list for cash. If I ever got to the point where I had a list like that and somebody sold their spot, I wouldn't honor it. Why should somebody make money off my name just for putting their name on a list. If they want so spend the cash and buy a cue to sell, that's a different story.

can i get on your list?
the list of guys you wanna pound some beers with
i promise i wont sell my spot for cash!! :thumbup:

 

[scdiveteam]

Rick -

I don't want you to think I was slamming you for giving away 20 cues. Everybody has their own way of doing things.

I may have come across a bit harsh. I blame that on a couple bottles of Chimay. I haven't even gone back and reread my post, so I hope it at least made some sort of sense.

Sending you a PM too. The rest of what I was going to type here would probably derail your thread too much.

Tony,

I love your cues, respect your thoughts and think you are the rising star headed for the A List of CMs.

I did not take anything as harsh. I like people who don't mince words. It's refreshing.

Thanks,

Rick

 

[hillscues]

Rick,

I can wait to inspect and edit revision 4 of the QA/QC Program. Working and building cues to the 3 beta versions has tightened up the entire process within my shop.

Using specific blueprints and process control hold & inspection points has eliminated any possible errors in my work building, assembling, and finishing all of the components. Just the gauging with "go" and "no go" fixtures has made each step go so much smoother than flying by the seat of our pants at the lathes.

I am very happy to be a part of this as both our shops are now working to the same standard. I am sure that our quest to deliver a perfect high end product to overseas collectors in batch quantities as required will be successful in the future. By using this 10 CFR 20 standard, we are building one off custom cues to the Highest Proprietary Quality Standard in the world.

Thanks for all the field testing you and Ray did without getting paid for those cues. I know my participation as Master Cue Maker for verification and the editing of the building details has made me re-think every detail and raise the bar for excellence.

Our team is now in place.

Darrin

 

[WilleeCue]

what the heck is chimay? :thumbup:

It is a beer made by Monks and bottled in a champagne bottle.
It is very strong and will numb your lips before you finish one bottle.
Very tasty and very expensive.

Only other beer I have ever had numb my lips was Carlsburg Elephant beer.

Here at Willeecue, Shiner Bock is the official beer.
Have installed many tips for a six pack of Shinner Bock.
The trick is to install it fast so the customer only has time to drink one of them while watching.

 

[scdiveteam]

Rick,

I can wait to inspect and edit revision 4 of the QA/QC Program. Working and building cues to the 3 beta versions has tightened up the entire process within my shop.

Using specific blueprints and process control hold & inspection points has eliminated any possible errors in my work building, assembling, and finishing all of the components. Just the gauging with "go" and "no go" fixtures has made each step go so much smoother than flying by the seat of our pants at the lathes.

I am very happy to be a part of this as both our shops are now working to the same standard. I am sure that our quest to deliver a perfect high end product to overseas collectors in batch quantities as required will be successful in the future. By using this 10 CFR 20 standard, we are building one off custom cues to the Highest Proprietary Quality Standard in the world.

Thanks for all the field testing you and Ray did without getting paid for those cues. I know my participation as Master Cue Maker for verification and the editing of the building details has made me re-think every detail and raise the bar for excellence.

Our team is now in place.

Darrin

Thanks Darrin,

As you know that this process only works when you are totally dedicated to the procedures. I am very glad that you came on board as the Master Cue Maker in your role in editing and verification of the process control. This is why Revision 4 will be the cats ass.

As we move forward together in this endeavor allowing our shops to work in unison on these special projects, revision 4 will become edited again and there will be a 5. I take my hat off to you Darrin for being a seasoned pro who without ego, re-thought and even re-tooled certain aspects of your process after you helped me dissect every detail of my process also. I am sure we will both re think a lot of stuff along the way, but that's what the raising the bar stuff produces.

I will call you next week as I will be driving up to your shop Thrusday or Friday.

Again, thanks for your embracing the process. It means a lot to me.

Rick

 

[WilleeCue]

WOW ... I have worked in the nuclear power industry for over 25 years as an I&C tech and the last thing I want to do is come home and work in my shop by procedures ... (grin)
Started out when they were being built and have watched the controls get tighter and tighter to the point paperwork is more than half the job.
Even a task as simple as replacing a small nut and washer on safety related equipment can take all day.
Those not familiar with nuclear work practices will find that hard to believe.

However, I can see that you are working hard toward a flawless product that will feel the same cue after cue ... or at least as much as possible.
A very worthwhile goal that you have put a lot of work and effort into.

Is the program something you are willing to share with others?
I would like to review a copy ... no doubt some of my methods of cue making could use some tightening up.

 

[scdiveteam]

WOW ... I have worked in the nuclear power industry for over 25 years as an I&C tech and the last thing I want to do is come home and work in my shop by procedures ... (grin)
Started out when they were being built and have watched the controls get tighter and tighter to the point paperwork is more than half the job.
Even a task as simple as replacing a small nut and washer on safety related equipment can take all day.
Those not familiar with nuclear work practices will find that hard to believe.

However, I can see that you are working hard toward a flawless product that will feel the same cue after cue ... or at least as much as possible.
A very worthwhile goal that you have put a lot of work and effort into.

Is the program something you are willing to share with others?
I would like to review a copy ... no doubt some of my methods of cue making could use some tightening up.

Hi Willie,

I too was involved in the construction of 16 Nuclear Plants and my company performed In Plant Services after the plants were on line. After Three Mile Island the way we did business changed and I am sure you understand how many modifications were designed and built in to existing Safety Related Systems.

I agree with you about the hurry up and wait scenarios that lurk in the Nuke plants and that why I have only modeled our QA/QC program from the 10CFR 20 standard. If I started certifying material with pedigrees as such, the cue would cost way too much for any market to bare. Darrin and I are planning to do certain projects combining our two shops and this program also allows us to utilize a Global Gant Schedule to track and oversee quality control and schedule planning.

When we ship cues to a Collector/Dealer overseas, we want to have as close to 100% acceptance of the end product as humanly possible. Rejects suck and we don't want to deal with problems. We also plan to have an agent to hand deliver our products performing inspection oversight at the deliver point as per the QA program. If a batch of cues is shipped to Dubai or Tokyo for example, our procedure requires our agent to be the final inspector before the customer/dealer ever views the product. If even a slight flaw is revealed by our agent during his critical review, he has the total power to reject and return said product back to us in the United States.

It is all about the process so repeatability of tolerances and quality is attained each and every time. You can deliver 10 cues that are perfect, if the 11th cue has a flaw your brand and reputation is questioned. People who purchase high end collector quality cues want and demand perfection.

Being a highly trained tech in a Nuke Plant qualifies you to be a critical oversight person as you are also a seasoned cue maker. I would welcome your review and comments as your are familiar with production procedures, calibration, inspection hold points ect. Since you understand both cultures, I would be happy to send you a copy when Darrin finishes his work if you promise to give us comments and a report from your critical oversight. I will include your oversight and add you as an editor on the title page of the revised version.

Thanks,

Rick Geschrey

 

[cueman]

I like the question, "whos cues do yours hit like?" Keep in mind I get this while holding or standing by my cues. I could understand asking this over the phone but not when the cue is right there for the person to try out.
I will say most cue makers do make the best hitting cue out there. They make it the way they like them to play. And, everyone likes something diffrent so invariably they also make cues people dislike. Nature of the beast. My advice is to make them the way you like and stick to it.

Well said. I would have to answewr that my cues hit in between some other cues in this or that aspect, as I know no other cue that plays identical to mine. So I guess the sarcastic sounding, but true answer would be, "They hit like mine."

 

[Sheldon]

So it's really pointless to gush about the "hit" if you are a cue maker because if you say firm, soft, hard, whippy, etc.... I guarantee you that someone out there will skip your cue because they THINK it won't be right for them.

:thumbup: That nails it....

One of the toughest aspects of custom cue building is when someone is looking for a specific "hit".
This is why a lot of cuemakers will claim their cues hit one way or another, and will be inflexible about certain things.

 

[JB Cases]

When we ship cues to a Collector/Dealer overseas, we want to have as close to 100% acceptance of the end product as humanly possible. Rejects suck and we don't want to deal with problems. We also plan to have an agent to hand deliver our products performing inspection oversight at the deliver point as per the QA program. If a batch of cues is shipped to Tokyo for example, our procedure requires our agent to be the final inspector before the customer/dealer ever views the product. If even a slight flaw is revealed by our agent during his critical review, he has the total power to reject and return said product back to us in the United States.

It is all about the process so repeatability of tolerances and quality is attained each and every time. You can deliver 10 cues that are perfect, if the 11th cue has a flaw your brand and reputation is questioned. People who purchase high end collector quality cues want and demand perfection.

Rick Geschrey

You need to go to the ICCS sometime if you think that higher end collectors want and demand perfection. The creator of the ICCS Bill Stroud once told me, and I quote, "there is no such thing as a perfect cue".

The higher you make your standards when dealing with such diverse materials such as wood and metal then the more you will drive yourself crazy.

Not to say that high standards are not something one should practice. I hold our products to a much high standard than our customers expect and will often "trash" a case just because of something that's 90% guaranteed to be unnoticeable by the customer. It drives my staff crazy. It drives my customers crazy when they have to wait and wait.

So I have come to the conclusion that perfection is an admirable goal but one that is impossible to attain. Why? Because perfection does not mean the same thing to all people.

You might build a cue which is technically flawless and (famous cuemaker) might build one where half the inlays are swimming in glue. Put the cues side by side and it's clear to you that you have the "better" cue. However someone else may be willing to accept the fact that (Famous cuemaker's) inlays are not tight because the overall design is stunning and as such "is perfect" for them. I have seen this very scenario play out many times.

Add to that the fact that humans don't see things the same way. Surely you have had times where you have handed something to someone and asked them to inspect it with the line "do you see what I see?" They turn it over and over and look closely, go get more light, etc... and finally they say they don't know what you see. We are wired to perceive the world through our own expectations. We prejudge constantly based on our own perception of what we think the world ought to be.

One time I handed a case to a guy and I gave him a discount based on a tiny cosmetic flaw that to me was like a blinking giant lightboard in Vegas. He took the discount but told me that if I had not mentioned it to him then he would never have seen it and that the case was going to have more scuffs than that in less than a week. So while I am proud of my integrity in pointing things like this out I have also learned that it's not really necessary all the time to look for and highlight everything I see as a flaw. Because the customer often doesn't see it that way and if not then no reason to put it out there.

I obsess about the future and sacrifice the work of the present.

I look at a case with a tiny flaw (in my eyes) and trash it causing the work to construct it to be done all or in part again. This is a waste of resources and time and causes mental anguish on my part and on the part of the people who work for me.

So the bottom line is that my advice is to set high standards, try to maintain them, but leave some room to accept less than "perfect" or you might find that you are driving yourself crazy.

 

[qbilder]

You need to go to the ICCS sometime if you think that higher end collectors want and demand perfection. The creator of the ICCS Bill Stroud once told me, and I quote, "there is no such thing as a perfect cue".

The higher you make your standards when dealing with such diverse materials such as wood and metal then the more you will drive yourself crazy.

Not to say that high standards are not something one should practice. I hold our products to a much high standard than our customers expect and will often "trash" a case just because of something that's 90% guaranteed to be unnoticeable by the customer. It drives my staff crazy. It drives my customers crazy when they have to wait and wait.

So I have come to the conclusion that perfection is an admirable goal but one that is impossible to attain. Why? Because perfection does not mean the same thing to all people.

You might build a cue which is technically flawless and (famous cuemaker) might build one where half the inlays are swimming in glue. Put the cues side by side and it's clear to you that you have the "better" cue. However someone else may be willing to accept the fact that (Famous cuemaker's) inlays are not tight because the overall design is stunning and as such "is perfect" for them. I have seen this very scenario play out many times.

Add to that the fact that humans don't see things the same way. Surely you have had times where you have handed something to someone and asked them to inspect it with the line "do you see what I see?" They turn it over and over and look closely, go get more light, etc... and finally they say they don't know what you see. We are wired to perceive the world through our own expectations. We prejudge constantly based on our own perception of what we think the world ought to be.

One time I handed a case to a guy and I gave him a discount based on a tiny cosmetic flaw that to me was like a blinking giant lightboard in Vegas. He took the discount but told me that if I had not mentioned it to him then he would never have seen it and that the case was going to have more scuffs than that in less than a week. So while I am proud of my integrity in pointing things like this out I have also learned that it's not really necessary all the time to look for and highlight everything I see as a flaw. Because the customer often doesn't see it that way and if not then no reason to put it out there.

I obsess about the future and sacrifice the work of the present.

I look at a case with a tiny flaw (in my eyes) and trash it causing the work to construct it to be done all or in part again. This is a waste of resources and time and causes mental anguish on my part and on the part of the people who work for me.

So the bottom line is that my advice is to set high standards, try to maintain them, but leave some room to accept less than "perfect" or you might find that you are driving yourself crazy.

I agree with most everything.

 

[hillscues]

You need to go to the ICCS sometime if you think that higher end collectors want and demand perfection. The creator of the ICCS Bill Stroud once told me, and I quote, "there is no such thing as a perfect cue".

The higher you make your standards when dealing with such diverse materials such as wood and metal then the more you will drive yourself crazy.

Not to say that high standards are not something one should practice. I hold our products to a much high standard than our customers expect and will often "trash" a case just because of something that's 90% guaranteed to be unnoticeable by the customer. It drives my staff crazy. It drives my customers crazy when they have to wait and wait.

So I have come to the conclusion that perfection is an admirable goal but one that is impossible to attain. Why? Because perfection does not mean the same thing to all people.

You might build a cue which is technically flawless and (famous cuemaker) might build one where half the inlays are swimming in glue. Put the cues side by side and it's clear to you that you have the "better" cue. However someone else may be willing to accept the fact that (Famous cuemaker's) inlays are not tight because the overall design is stunning and as such "is perfect" for them. I have seen this very scenario play out many times.

Add to that the fact that humans don't see things the same way. Surely you have had times where you have handed something to someone and asked them to inspect it with the line "do you see what I see?" They turn it over and over and look closely, go get more light, etc... and finally they say they don't know what you see. We are wired to perceive the world through our own expectations. We prejudge constantly based on our own perception of what we think the world ought to be.

One time I handed a case to a guy and I gave him a discount based on a tiny cosmetic flaw that to me was like a blinking giant lightboard in Vegas. He took the discount but told me that if I had not mentioned it to him then he would never have seen it and that the case was going to have more scuffs than that in less than a week. So while I am proud of my integrity in pointing things like this out I have also learned that it's not really necessary all the time to look for and highlight everything I see as a flaw. Because the customer often doesn't see it that way and if not then no reason to put it out there.

I obsess about the future and sacrifice the work of the present.

I look at a case with a tiny flaw (in my eyes) and trash it causing the work to construct it to be done all or in part again. This is a waste of resources and time and causes mental anguish on my part and on the part of the people who work for me.

So the bottom line is that my advice is to set high standards, try to maintain them, but leave some room to accept less than "perfect" or you might find that you are driving yourself crazy.

JB,

I read your post and understand what you are saying about how some high end cue makers are so revered that people will pay more money for a cue with their name on it even if it has slight flaws in the workmanship. I have seen this over and over again.

Over the years Rick and I have been very good friends and I have mentored him in his quest to be a cue maker full time. He has also taught me about having a QA/QC method that produces a repeatable product to a very high standard.

Before I made my first cue, I had been working lathes, mills and all of the other shop equipment since I was 14 years old in my dads shop building custom parts for my competitive motocross racing. When Rick told me about this Nuclear Standards Procedure stuff that his company had been using in Nuclear Diving I asked him why can't we apply these standards to cue making.

I have been building cues for over 12 years now and making a full time living at it for about 7 years. All of that time I have utilized my experience to improve on my end product. Even today each cue I build is a little better than the last. For the last year we have been developing our program and I know it is a very effective tool. Like Rick has said over and over, "you got to buy into it completely and embrace the culture of oversight and inspection verification". You don't cut corners!

By using our QA/QC procedure to build cues, Rick and I have standardized the tolerances for holding dimensions, controlling machining & construction techniques, gluing, sanding, finishing and buffing in both our shops. We select and store our raw materials in a very specific way as I have learned a lot over the years in this area.

I know that trying to make a cue that is perfect is somewhat idealistic and that every cue has some kind of flaw that is known to the cue maker. The question is what do you want to accept as your standard for output from your shop.

I look at this QA/QC as like a "Code of Ethics" and I am willing to do the little extra things it takse to follow it. The devil in always in the detail. I hope that my customers will recognize that great efforts has been applied to making a world class product for them to enjoy.

My wife made a good point about this. She said to me its like when president Kennedy said, the torch has been passed to a new generation. Old school is replaced with new school thinking and standards change from one generation to the next.

Rick and I and our graphic artist and trying to set the bar higher and I believe we will be sucessful in attaining our goals as we venture into this collector cue realm as a business plan.

As for trying to sell collector or high end cues that have noticable defects, we will leave that to those who are ok with that.

Darrin Hill

 

[JB Cases]

JB,

I read your post and understand what you are saying about how some high end cue makers are so revered that people will pay more money for a cue with their name on it even if it has slight flaws in the workmanship. I have seen this over and over again.

Over the years Rick and I have been very good friends and I have mentored him in his quest to be a cue maker full time. He has also taught me about having a QA/QC method that produces a repeatable product to a very high standard.

Before I made my first cue, I had been working lathes, mills and all of the other shop equipment since I was 14 years old in my dads shop building custom parts for my competitive motocross racing. When Rick told me about this Nuclear Standards Procedure stuff that his company had been using in Nuclear Diving I asked him why can't we apply these standards to cue making.

I have been building cues for over 12 years now and making a full time living at it for about 7 years. All of that time I have utilized my experience to improve on my end product. Even today each cue I build is a little better than the last. For the last year we have been developing our program and I know it is a very effective tool. Like Rick has said over and over, "you got to buy into it completely and embrace the culture of oversight and inspection verification". You don't cut corners!

By using our QA/QC procedure to build cues, Rick and I have standardized the tolerances for holding dimensions, controlling machining & construction techniques, gluing, sanding, finishing and buffing in both our shops. We select and store our raw materials in a very specific way as I have learned a lot over the years in this area.

I know that trying to make a cue that is perfect is somewhat idealistic and that every cue has some kind of flaw that is known to the cue maker. The question is what do you want to accept as your standard for output from your shop.

I look at this QA/QC as like a "Code of Ethics" and I am willing to do the little extra things it takse to follow it. The devil in always in the detail. I hope that my customers will recognize that great efforts has been applied to making a world class product for them to enjoy.

My wife made a good point about this. She said to me its like when president Kennedy said, the torch has been passed to a new generation. Old school is replaced with new school thinking and standards change from one generation to the next.

Rick and I and our graphic artist and trying to set the bar higher and I believe we will be sucessful in attaining our goals as we venture into this collector cue realm as a business plan.

As for trying to sell collector or high end cues that have noticable defects, we will leave that to those who are ok with that.

Darrin Hill

I probably didn't express myself as well as I should have. There is no doubt in my mind that any QA process which is applied consistently will result in a better product overall. And of course anything that is adopted from an industry where safety is so important should result in products that are super high quality.

Joey Gold often gets criticized for his prices. I used to hold the opinion, which I now know to be wrong, that any competent factory such as McDermott could reverse engineer a Cog and offer the same performance for a lot less.

After meeting Joey at his place and spending several hours going through each step of how he builds a cue I concluded that it would be difficult to divine the methods Joey uses based on a completed cue.

He applies the same methods every time to his cuemaking, he has his processes down to a science. At least that's impression I had when I was there and every Cog I have owned or handled has been pristine as far as I can remember.

I was not saying that one should not have a repeatable process. I was just saying that even with such a process no matter how good it is -perfection- is going to hard to achieve given the medium you are working with. (but again perfection itself is fluid)

How did we get to this topic anyway when we were talking about the hit?

I just got a Jensen cue. The first thing I did was take it to the poolroom and play with it. The cue hits like GOLD. It's amazing how easily I move the cueball with it. I don't know why it is like this. My other cues/shafts feel like steel bars in comparision even the ones with similar tapers.

I have had it for a week now and played about ten hours with it and I still haven't really inspected it closely for visible surface flaws.

I guess I will check it for flaws later. :wink:

Also, just for the record I don't condone the idea of shipping cues with glaring issues no matter how pretty and well designed they are. Or cases.

Just that my standards MIGHT be too high sometimes and what I see as a problem isn't something that 99% of the people who view my case would even notice. Thus it's a waste of resources and emotion to disregard a case based on things like that.

OR I need to charge a heck of a lot more to cover the cost of wanting to deliver sheer perfection. Because, as one wise cue collector/trader told me recently, you can be in business or you can be a tortured artist, but you can't be both.

I'd rather be in business.

You said,

"The devil in always in the detail. I hope that my customers will recognize that great efforts has been applied to making a world class product for them to enjoy."

I am here to tell you that very few of your customers will appreciate it. At the end of the day they will display your cue next to the one which has a lot of flaws you wouldn't ever let out of the shop and they will be just as proud of both cues.

I hate to break it to you like this but honest to God very very few customers care at all what you go through to produce a cue. They don't care and telling them does not change their perception of you or other cuemakers one bit. Sure, some people will express their wonder and give you some respect for going the extra mile. But most don't even know how long the track is to begin with and so they don't really care how much more effort you put in over your competitors.

What will happen, and mark my words, is that you will develop a real hatred for people who gush over cues which display "flaws" that you think should never have been let out of the shop. When they say that so-and-so is the "best ever" and you wouldn't even use their cues as tomato stakes you will be more and more pissed. (ok I am projecting my own feelings here but you get the point).

So with that I will get off the topic. It's a sticky one at best.

I will leave you with this question. Think about it before you answer.

What is quality?

 

[JB Cases]

JB,

I read your post and understand what you are saying about how some high end cue makers are so revered that people will pay more money for a cue with their name on it even if it has slight flaws in the workmanship. I have seen this over and over again.
Darrin Hill

Sorry, I forgot to address this point. That is not what I was saying at all. I wasn't saying that x-cuemaker is so revered that people buy his stuff just because of the name.

I also didn't make it about price.

I was speaking about ow someone FEELS about something they own or would like to acquire.

The point is that "perfection" is not always about precision in execution, but also about balance and beauty and the feeling the object inspires in the person interacting with it.