Tony Zinzola****hot Off The Lathe
- Thread starter tikkler
- Start date
I think some of the issues mentioned above are due to the high resolution and close-up pics. I'm sure thay are not readily apparent to the naked eye when the cue is in ones hands. Any way, the cue is certainly a work of art which I enjoyed seeing. Thanks for sharing Mr. Tikkler. By the way, your picture taking is right on.
The below post was posted in the w/fs section in responce to the uncalled for attack again tony in that section so i thought I might as well post it here too...
posted by mb taylor
*Sniff* *Sniff* I smell nuts, and I don't mean Planters.
I have a good description:
Up and coming cue maker who has reached master craftsman status in only a few short years. With credentials like that, what more could you ask for in a maker? Call me to make your dream cue. After all, I have made 55 cues and still going strong.
and
Here is another description:
I am such a master, they named Master's Chalk after me
this is my responce...
This post only makes you look bad , not Tony.... I have ordered 3 cues with a fourth on the way from Tony..... He makes a hell of a cue, especially for only 55 made... Tony is the first to critique his work and has refused to sell several cues because he was not happy with them. If a customer is not happy with the cue he will take it back in new condition. Not that I have ever heard of one being returned...You can't ask anymore than this... I have also seen some of the same flaws you were talking about from reputable cue makers with 10 plus years experience... So my question to you is who pi$$ed in your cornflakes and why pick on a nice guy trying to make a living like Tony?
Neither of the two threads you posted to were started for the purpose of blasting a member of this forum so RED REP for you!!!!!!!
Mike
posted by mb taylor
*Sniff* *Sniff* I smell nuts, and I don't mean Planters.
I have a good description:
Up and coming cue maker who has reached master craftsman status in only a few short years. With credentials like that, what more could you ask for in a maker? Call me to make your dream cue. After all, I have made 55 cues and still going strong.
and
Here is another description:
I am such a master, they named Master's Chalk after me
this is my responce...
This post only makes you look bad , not Tony.... I have ordered 3 cues with a fourth on the way from Tony..... He makes a hell of a cue, especially for only 55 made... Tony is the first to critique his work and has refused to sell several cues because he was not happy with them. If a customer is not happy with the cue he will take it back in new condition. Not that I have ever heard of one being returned...You can't ask anymore than this... I have also seen some of the same flaws you were talking about from reputable cue makers with 10 plus years experience... So my question to you is who pi$$ed in your cornflakes and why pick on a nice guy trying to make a living like Tony?
Neither of the two threads you posted to were started for the purpose of blasting a member of this forum so RED REP for you!!!!!!!
Mike
Because it pertains to your friends comments and attitude in this thread as well. Hopes this answers your question.
Mike
Mike
i'm not trying to be negative here but the pictures are telling the story no?
i'm looking at the barbells here and, in with the close up detail pictures, they are not centered with the ball end and do connect.
the inlay...it's not very...sharp? clean? the bar that's going across the fleur de lis...it's straight on one end and angled on the other.
there's also a lot of scratches on the cue's finish it seems. like it could be polished more?
i'm not sure what the cost of the cue is but, for me, even in a $1000 or less custom cue i'd expect a little bit more precision.
tikkler said:
i'm looking at the barbells here and, in with the close up detail pictures, they are not centered with the ball end and do connect.
tikkler said:
the inlay...it's not very...sharp? clean? the bar that's going across the fleur de lis...it's straight on one end and angled on the other.
there's also a lot of scratches on the cue's finish it seems. like it could be polished more?
i'm not sure what the cost of the cue is but, for me, even in a $1000 or less custom cue i'd expect a little bit more precision.
The thing with posting something in a public gallery is that you are going get all opinions.
When I first looked at the cue I thought they were in progress pictures. If I received a cue with that finish for what I am guessing is a close to mid 4 figure price tag, I would be very unhappy.
What I see wrong with the cue:
The finish first and foremost. Which seems to have the same issues as the two Zinzola cues I have seen in person. This one seems to be a little worse. Perhaps something could have changed between the shop and these pictures. I agree with the above poster that most makers I know would not let that out which makes me think that something changing is a possibility.
The barbell inlays where the cross bar does not meet up with the dots.
The inlays are not clean and precise. The cross bars meet at different points on the dots.
What I like about the cue:
I like the color scheme and design elements
I like the veneer work which I think has been Mr.Zinzola's strong suit.
All that said I think there are a lot of holes in the cue which is aspiring to be at the level of a masters work.
I also think what is raising some hackles here are statements like this:
From www.zinzola.com :
"Tony Zinzola has been making cues out of his one man shop in Marlborough Massachusetts since January of 2007. He is currently producing approximately 25-50 cues per year. With his background in creating custom wood furniture combined with his avid thirst for learning, he has already established himself among cue enthusiasts as a master craftsman and a fine cue maker. "
If you are going to claim master status among a bunch of knowledgeable enthusiasts then you are going to be held to the standard of a master. Most cuemakers I have spoken with have some early cues they would like to have back. It is just a part of the journey that mastering any craft is. If someone looks at that cue and really honestly sees nothing wrong with it then I just do not know what to say.
You cant say "I am master" then turn around and say "I have only been doing it for two years." Not that Mr.Zinzola has said the latter but he has claimed the former.
I know well established cue makers with 10-15 years of experience who do not consider themselves "Masters". To some people that term is nothing more than a marketing buzz word. To others it carries much more weight.
The design ques are clearly taken from Ron Haley and that can get some people riled up pretty good too. Some people see nothing wrong with it, others are passionately against it. To each their own I guess.
I am interested to hear what Mr. Zinzola has to say. This can be a brutal crowd for a new cuemaker trying to make his name. But that is the chance you take when you make certain claims.
When I first looked at the cue I thought they were in progress pictures. If I received a cue with that finish for what I am guessing is a close to mid 4 figure price tag, I would be very unhappy.
What I see wrong with the cue:
The finish first and foremost. Which seems to have the same issues as the two Zinzola cues I have seen in person. This one seems to be a little worse. Perhaps something could have changed between the shop and these pictures. I agree with the above poster that most makers I know would not let that out which makes me think that something changing is a possibility.
The barbell inlays where the cross bar does not meet up with the dots.
The inlays are not clean and precise. The cross bars meet at different points on the dots.
What I like about the cue:
I like the color scheme and design elements
I like the veneer work which I think has been Mr.Zinzola's strong suit.
All that said I think there are a lot of holes in the cue which is aspiring to be at the level of a masters work.
I also think what is raising some hackles here are statements like this:
From www.zinzola.com :
"Tony Zinzola has been making cues out of his one man shop in Marlborough Massachusetts since January of 2007. He is currently producing approximately 25-50 cues per year. With his background in creating custom wood furniture combined with his avid thirst for learning, he has already established himself among cue enthusiasts as a master craftsman and a fine cue maker. "
If you are going to claim master status among a bunch of knowledgeable enthusiasts then you are going to be held to the standard of a master. Most cuemakers I have spoken with have some early cues they would like to have back. It is just a part of the journey that mastering any craft is. If someone looks at that cue and really honestly sees nothing wrong with it then I just do not know what to say.
You cant say "I am master" then turn around and say "I have only been doing it for two years." Not that Mr.Zinzola has said the latter but he has claimed the former.
I know well established cue makers with 10-15 years of experience who do not consider themselves "Masters". To some people that term is nothing more than a marketing buzz word. To others it carries much more weight.
The design ques are clearly taken from Ron Haley and that can get some people riled up pretty good too. Some people see nothing wrong with it, others are passionately against it. To each their own I guess.
I am interested to hear what Mr. Zinzola has to say. This can be a brutal crowd for a new cuemaker trying to make his name. But that is the chance you take when you make certain claims.
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It has been an Emperor has no clothes thing for me, no less that 15 different people gave the cue high praise. Some of the best, if not the best on AZ. I had to question my own eyesight, but fell back on the time honored practice of trusting your first instinct. Not 1, and I mean not ONE of the other cue makers here, regardless of status (whether deserved or perceived), would let that cue out of their shop. I don't know what is going on, but something can probably be read between the lines.
Hypochrite............
You have never commented negatively on anything here, ever? You have never taken jabs at someone on here?
Smells like a hypochritical nut-hugging response to me. I bet if my comments jibed with your views, you wouldn't have had the response you did, obviously. I bet if I had made these comments about Varney or Wheat not so long ago you wouldn't have a problem with me saying something like that.
Yes, you are correct, other cue makers have had similar issues, but what is your point? We aren't talking about them or their cues at this moment. I doubt any of them, including some of the elite makers, are or ever were self-proclaimed masters.
Come on. Put your biases aside and look at the photos. You mean to tell me that the stuff in the pictures is acceptable on a 4 figure cue no matter who made it? If you can say anything other than no, I am not sure what to say.
Even in some of the more distant pictures you can see that there are some major inconsistancies in the barbells.
I guess I will have to remember to keep my comments mainstream and do what the AZ mob mentalilty flock here do..........overlook things.....jump on bandwagons.....not say anything that might rock the boat.....
Jager Monster said:
You have never commented negatively on anything here, ever? You have never taken jabs at someone on here?
Smells like a hypochritical nut-hugging response to me. I bet if my comments jibed with your views, you wouldn't have had the response you did, obviously. I bet if I had made these comments about Varney or Wheat not so long ago you wouldn't have a problem with me saying something like that.
Yes, you are correct, other cue makers have had similar issues, but what is your point? We aren't talking about them or their cues at this moment. I doubt any of them, including some of the elite makers, are or ever were self-proclaimed masters.
Come on. Put your biases aside and look at the photos. You mean to tell me that the stuff in the pictures is acceptable on a 4 figure cue no matter who made it? If you can say anything other than no, I am not sure what to say.
Even in some of the more distant pictures you can see that there are some major inconsistancies in the barbells.
I guess I will have to remember to keep my comments mainstream and do what the AZ mob mentalilty flock here do..........overlook things.....jump on bandwagons.....not say anything that might rock the boat.....
This will be my only post on this thread.
The Buff marks in the finish that appear in the photos were not seen by anyone with the lighting in my shop. If they were there, I certainly would not have let the cue out. Under intense lighting, and high resolution photography, they came out and they came out strong. I have already been given some advise on how to avoid this in the future. These cannot be seen with the naked eye.
I have told Tikkler if he is unhappy in any way, to send the cue back and it will be corrected. He said those marks are not noticeable in person.
I stand behind my cues. If there is a problem now, or Tikkler decides there is a problem in the future, I will take care of it.
As for the inlays. In person, they are tight and clean. They are approximately 1/2 inch tall only. They are much larger on your computer screen. If you magnify anything that much, you are going to find flaws.
The Buff marks in the finish that appear in the photos were not seen by anyone with the lighting in my shop. If they were there, I certainly would not have let the cue out. Under intense lighting, and high resolution photography, they came out and they came out strong. I have already been given some advise on how to avoid this in the future. These cannot be seen with the naked eye.
I have told Tikkler if he is unhappy in any way, to send the cue back and it will be corrected. He said those marks are not noticeable in person.
I stand behind my cues. If there is a problem now, or Tikkler decides there is a problem in the future, I will take care of it.
As for the inlays. In person, they are tight and clean. They are approximately 1/2 inch tall only. They are much larger on your computer screen. If you magnify anything that much, you are going to find flaws.
pooldogue said:
I have never seen such a disparity between praise and actual execution here. But I do see a fledgling cue maker suffering growing pains. That is not always a bad thing.
Tony Zinzola said:
Here is a Haley from the same camera, with silver inlaid in Ivory, 100 times harder than Silver inlaid in Ebony with Konap. Absolute perfection and meticulous attention to detail. You may want to edit your statement, because we can see those imperfections with the naked eye.
Attachments
WOW! Now THAT's what a Master can do.
IMO, Tony's design is great; artistically the cue is balanced and it has a nice flow. The inlay execution, however, is not ready for prime time. Perhaps the Oshiego left his Sensei too early?
With any luck Tony will look back on this, as many CMs do later in their career, and regret releasing this cue to the marketplace.
I recognize the talent required and the amount of time & effort to make a cue this complex. But the difference between this being a 1K cue and a 4K cue are those inlays not being clean and the barbells not lining up.
Be that as it may, I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more of this up & coming cuemaker! Hope so, anyways.
-von
IMO, Tony's design is great; artistically the cue is balanced and it has a nice flow. The inlay execution, however, is not ready for prime time. Perhaps the Oshiego left his Sensei too early?
With any luck Tony will look back on this, as many CMs do later in their career, and regret releasing this cue to the marketplace.
I recognize the talent required and the amount of time & effort to make a cue this complex. But the difference between this being a 1K cue and a 4K cue are those inlays not being clean and the barbells not lining up.
Be that as it may, I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more of this up & coming cuemaker! Hope so, anyways.
-von
hangemhigh said:
that's why there ain't no tens!
A very nice cue but even this one image at high magnification reveals flaws. The black around the silver bars is almost certainly very fine bits of silver trapped under the finish. The tiny bits are silver colored and impossible to see when finish sanding the cue. Even after careful cleaning some are trapped. When the silver bits oxidize you get the black. Also the smaller mother of pearl round isn't perfectly centered on the bar. Not to say that the Zinzola doesn't have far more serious flaws but to point out that there is some merit to his claims that blowing up something twenty times or so on a computer monitor will reveal flaws that even a loop won't.
Funny thing about handwork though, when you get too perfect few are willing to believe it is done by hand!
Hu
hangemhigh said:
A very nice cue but even this one image at high magnification reveals flaws. The black around the silver bars is almost certainly very fine bits of silver trapped under the finish. The tiny bits are silver colored and impossible to see when finish sanding the cue. Even after careful cleaning some are trapped. When the silver bits oxidize you get the black. Also the smaller mother of pearl round isn't perfectly centered on the bar. Not to say that the Zinzola doesn't have far more serious flaws but to point out that there is some merit to his claims that blowing up something twenty times or so on a computer monitor will reveal flaws that even a loop won't.
Funny thing about handwork though, when you get too perfect few are willing to believe it is done by hand!
Hu
MBTaylor said:
My problem was not only did you post here but you dug up his cue give away thread to throw dirt there... Big difrence between pointing out flaws and attacking people.... There was a much better way to handle things imho. Makes one think their might be a hidden agenda. I hope you have a great New Year and a safe holiday......
Mike
ShootingArts said:
i think that with the haley it is a cause where blowing something up that small that big will reveal flaws but even the flaws, at this size, are very hard to see.
i do not believe the claim that the flaws in mr. zinzola's cue is not visible to the naked eye. even in the other photos at a bit of distance you can easily see that the bar isn't lined up with the ball ends.