Tournaments dwindling at the hand of one

L

lawful777

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So, a deeper question for anyone interested. I live in a somewhat rural area with a few large towns nearby. I play in leagues and tournaments on a fairly consistent basis and have total devotion to our sport.

In our town, We have a weekly $5.oo entry tournament that used to get up to around 32 players weekly. THe last year or so it has fallen to about 12-16. Most recently, it has diminished to even less. One of the consensus from local players is that we have a strong A player from out of town who was winning each week and I believe scaring the primarily C-B crowd that showed up to play for a chance at a few bucks. Personally, I look forward to the practice with him and sometimes win, however many of the other players have been frustrated that he usually wins. Many have all quit and he continues to come as well as go on the road now to several smaller tournaments in surrounding towns who now complain too. His response is for everyone else to not complain but to get better and beat him. As far as I know, all of these tournaments are "open" and not handicapped. When it comes to playing other "A" tournaments he tends to shy away from them because they are definitely harder and his chances for cash get smaller.

I know he has every right to play in them but in all honesty is it fair to cause so many good C&B tournaments to go by the wayside? Is the pursuit of a couple bucks for him worth, a lot of recreational players getting frustrated at something they enjoy? Is there anything that can be done to please all involved? In all fairness, I won't divulge any names or locations, I guess it is just a question of whether this is good or bad for the sport. I will continue to play regardless, there just isn't as much competition now..... Thanks for your thoughts!
 
Based on what you said, he's an A player that avoids other A tournaments and simply plays in non-handicapped events against B and C players....right???

He's robbing these tournaments....

Work with the TD's, utilize a simple handicap system, and jack his rating through the roof until you get an even spread where everyone has a shot again.....

His arguement of everyone should get better simply suits his own purpose.....he could use the same arguement on himself and go pro/play in the other local A events.....the guy is a dirtbag and is ruining your local scene....take action....
 
Thanks for the reply.....That is pretty much what is happening. He has always been friendly to me and sometimes will show me a thing or two, but it is hard for everyone going broke at his expense.....He does play in the occasional handicapped, higher tournaments but doesn't usually fair as well. He says that he wins money from the smaller tournaments to fund playing in bigger ones. For some of the locals, these are the only tournaments they can afford to go to. It is tough.....thanks again.
 
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In NC at a lot of tourneys if you win you can't play the next week. Sounds like you guys need to institute that rule.
 
lawful777 said:
So, a deeper question for anyone interested. I live in a somewhat rural area with a few large towns nearby. I play in leagues and tournaments on a fairly consistent basis and have total devotion to our sport.

In our town, We have a weekly $5.oo entry tournament that used to get up to around 32 players weekly. THe last year or so it has fallen to about 12-16. Most recently, it has diminished to even less. One of the consensus from local players is that we have a strong A player from out of town who was winning each week and I believe scaring the primarily C-B crowd that showed up to play for a chance at a few bucks. Personally, I look forward to the practice with him and sometimes win, however many of the other players have been frustrated that he usually wins. Many have all quit and he continues to come as well as go on the road now to several smaller tournaments in surrounding towns who now complain too. His response is for everyone else to not complain but to get better and beat him. As far as I know, all of these tournaments are "open" and not handicapped. When it comes to playing other "A" tournaments he tends to shy away from them because they are definitely harder and his chances for cash get smaller.

I know he has every right to play in them but in all honesty is it fair to cause so many good C&B tournaments to go by the wayside? Is the pursuit of a couple bucks for him worth, a lot of recreational players getting frustrated at something they enjoy? Is there anything that can be done to please all involved? In all fairness, I won't divulge any names or locations, I guess it is just a question of whether this is good or bad for the sport. I will continue to play regardless, there just isn't as much competition now..... Thanks for your thoughts!
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Sounds like you are describing a local bar tournament, race to 1 is a match? I used to play in these years ago to make some extra money.
The solution is simple. Bring in a rule that states: the winner can't play in this event for 2 weeks. This will guarantee a different winner for a couple weeks anyway. And......this guy could only steal from the locals once every 2 weeks.

Also, keep a board of past winners. Everbody will see when this guy has won and when he is eligible to play again. I bet you will see larger field when this guy can't play.
 
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It is a local bar tournament, Race to 2 & 2.... Not much for warming up like in a longer race. I am liking the responses so far.....Thanks everyone!
 
Tournament Directors have the right to deny anyone entry to a tournament that they so desire. I sincerely doubt that fear runs deep for a $5.00 event. And if anyone thinks that someone traveling to and fro for $5.00 entry events is a road player...now come on...pay the fee, play and have fun. There is a $5.00 event here, the auction usually has over $2,000.00 - pros in the area are excluded from the event.
 
Well...

lawful777 said:
Thanks for the reply.....That is pretty much what is happening. He has always been friendly to me and sometimes will show me a thing or two, but it is hard for everyone going broke at his expense.....
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It is a $5 tourney, so people I hope aren't going broke, but he has killed the ACTION.

Like was said above by Big Perm, easily handicap the tourney, and make it more difficult for him to win. Around here, we used to have tourney rules where if someone won 2 weeks in a row they would have to sit out for 2 weeks - just an idea.

Or if it is a race tourney, have A players give a game on the wire to B players and 2 games to c players. B players would give a game to c players.
But ranking players is where it will become controversial - but maybe better than dealing with the one A player - BUT MAYBE NOT - could cause other issues.
Something as simple as these quick fixes might help even out the competition, since this can't be a great money-making event(nobody is getting rich), but is for people having a good time, and competing with others of same skill in the great game of pool.


BTW - 8 ball or 9 ball? That may change the best way to handicap the tourney.

I hope this helps.

Michael
 
Its a $5 entry tournament that is OPEN, the person running these type of tournaments should not allow A players in them and make it a B/C only tourney. The guy is doing nothing wrong but playing in a tourney where it is soft and its open to anyone.

I used to play in a double elimination bar table 8 ball in a small town that would get 20 players or so and I could count on going there nearly every time and get the cash. I know people were not thrilled about it but I would make sure to buy everyone a beer and try to be decent but eventually the tourney kind of dwindled down before the bar lost its liquor license.

I remember when another good player came in town and everyone was rooting for me to beat him because they looked at him like he was a hustler just because he played good and was beating people. I like when you play well and beat someone and they say you hustled them, stupidest comment ever.
 
It is really sad that anyone would choose not to play a something they enjoy for only a $5 entry. If I could have any top pro play in my weekly tournament for $5, I would gladly invite them. Why not?

Pool is a funny game in this sense. Are these players not playing because they think they can't win? Does their ego get that easily bruised? Are they really needing the $5 or the $100 win money? Is it some or all of the above.

Whoever said in this thread that "this guy is a dirtbag" is wrong. He hasn't done anything wrong except support a local $5 tournament. He is a like most of us here and loves to play. He has used the smaller tournaments as an entry into the larger ones. He has given back to pool.

With that being said, this is not an uncommon circumstance surrounding pool or any local tournament. Why should anyone give or take weight for that matter? In all fairness, why should this person who has probably spent more time and money trying to improve his game now be punished because he is better? Isn't that the goal of all of us? Well, we all know why we give or take weight...for a chance to win. Without this we probably don't have a game at all. This is what has happened to the tournament as well.

This player has only done what is in his best interest so far. Now if he was a little wiser, he would realize that his win percentage is directly affecting the size of the field and prize money too. So in reality, it is in his best interest to 1) sandbag so people think they can beat him and continually come back (too late for this one) 2) sit out every other week or two 3) sell and promote the tournament each and every week to get them to come back.

It is the TD who is responsible for getting people to play. He is responsible for managing the tournament. I find it sad to exclude anyone from a tournament, but I'm well aware of the reasons why this is done. The ones who really should feel bad are the pathetic B & C whiners who have no backbone to compete and improve their games. Go cry to your mommies or shut up and play. JMHO
 
I have a few local $5 tournaments that I play in. I always go into the tournament expecting to donate my $5 and play some pool with different competition. One of the tournaments is set so that if you win you can't play for the next 2 weeks. It is nice to know that I have the ability to get in the money at times, but as I said to someone just the other day, if the $5 is going to make or break me, I shouldn't be playing anyway.
 
This sounds like me when I was in Boise for six weeks at the end of last year for business. I'm B+/A- player and played in a bunch of $5 tourneys, race to 2 or 3, while I was there. They drew anywhere to 10-36 players; some of the places added cash to the event. At one hall, I won one twice and was asked not to play next week. The following week I took second and they barred me from playing. I was fine with this, since they told me ahead of time what would happen if I cashed, first or second again. They set the rules, so I was cool with it. At the other place, I took second twice and third once. I did play in two A tournaments, but missed the money by one place. I agree with some of the other posters, they should make the player sit out a week or two or just bar them if they have cashed too many times. Define the event as "B" player or lower tourney. Set the level of expectation when the player pays the entry fee. Eventually the player will move to tournaments more their speed.
 
thank you

Thank you everyone for your opinions. As to my angle. I myself wouldn't mind at all except that there aren't enough people showing up to have a tournament anymore. We sometimes can't get the minimum for the bar to chip in where on an average night we would get 12-15 or so. My whine isn't in his abilities or mine. He is a great player and I am a good player for my current commitment level. I get out of pool what I put into and then sometimes a little. I LOVE the sport for many reasons, not just winning when I do. I love the history, the family aspect, custom cues, trying different games, the action, etc. I watch dvd's and practice mental toughness. I try hard not to commit to complaining over shots and losses. The only downfall I have is practice time due to other commitments which I never use as an excuse. Like I said, I am not an A player but I don't put in A player hours. My goal once a few commitments lighten up is to practice until I can play at or above his level consistently. I can beat him on the right night and 5 bucks isn't my complaint. My only problem is that what used to be a nice little pool scene for another practice night has gone south and many of the players state him as the reason. Thank you again everyone.....
 
As the occasional 5 dollar tournament robber, I sympathize with the out of town A (which I am not). As an unbelievable cheapskate, I won't put 5 bucks into a tournament when I literally have a 0% chance of getting it back.

I don't really go for the idea that my 5 is buying cheap lessons from the A. The idea that you can soak up and learn from a better player just by watching or osmosis is a little suspect. You might learn how to play a situation or two, and that's arguably worth a fiver, but actual learning usually needs some sort of explanation. Maybe I'll just spectate for free and learn.

That being said, I feel as a decent B player I can beat anyone in a race to two. I have run 2 racks in a row many times. I don't care if the other guy is a US open champion, in race to two I feel I can beat anyone if I have a good day, a nice break, or I catch a roll.

Honestly the locals need to get better. This guy is not invincible. Nobody is with a short race like that. I would like to see the guy running the tournament put out a special "headhunter" offer - beat the A player and get an added cash bonus. If that somehow bothers the A-player, maybe he'll back out and make everyone happy anyway.
 
lol u guys wouldnt last in new orleans where every randmon weekday tournament has a few world-beaters in it...

its how you get good, pay the tax
 
why does a place put on tournaments?

Ultimately the real reason that a place has tournaments is that it is good for business. When you let one person come in and take way more than their share of the wins it is bad for business, not good. It isn't really a matter of right or wrong or fair, it is simply that the tournaments that the site puts on to increase customer satisfaction is having the opposite result. The owner needs to take whatever option works to please the most people.

A local pub and semi pool hall, they have seven bar boxes and a nine footer, started putting on tournaments. I don't drink these days and am not well known to most customers there. I banned myself from the tournaments because my bar table play is real up and down now since I very rarely play on them. Have flashbacks to the early seventies and nobody has to like what I can hand out in short tourney races. Another time I might play like a dog. If I went in there and got hot there would be a lot of folks that felt like I came in there and robbed them. They would be right too. I don't really support the bar other than buying a few soft drinks and dropping five or ten dollars in the coin op's and I don't have any business dropping into events put on for the regulars.

Hu
 
Neil said:
Like was said previously, it's only a $5 entry fee! Everyone in it is probably getting their $5 worth of table time. Plus, they get to play a good player and learn a few things. So what if he wins it? You think he's getting rich off a $5 tournament?

We have one here every week. First gets around $50-55 with a full field of 32. There is myself, and usually 1 - 4 other A players, plus Kirkwood in it. Just recently, they handicapped it because Jason and I won it almost every week.

But, as the TD tells everyone, where else can you play that long for $5 AND get to play some of the top players in town?? People are getting WAY more than their $5 worth, and they still want to complain about not winning. Yet, the same people WON'T be in the room practicing at ALL during the week. They just want to be able to win it most of the time, but don't want to put in the work to do it.

Let me point out a little factor that is often dismissed- if you are constantly complaining about how good some people in the tournament are, YOU AREN"T GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN IT!! GO PRACTICE!!!
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:thumbup: This is the way I feel too. I'm an A player on the bar table, but I wasn't always. This is the exact situation that led me and a couple of other players that I know to become A players (one ended up being a pro). We practiced in the down time until breaking and running 2 racks of 8 ball on the bar table was not a big deal. That beats anyone in the world in a race to 2. If you locals step it up a notch and get your mind right, it won't be long until this will be a non-issue. Anyone who can make 4 balls in a row can win a race to 2.
 
I would not mind losing the 5 if I was given an fair chance. The pool hall or bar loses money when fewer people show up. If the tourny is really designed for b - c plalyers then a players should be denied entry.
Even in a race to 2 an c player does not have much of a chance of winning against an a player with a small handicap.
To make the handicap large enough to make it fair you would have to extend the race which does not usually work in a small bar setting.
 
the guy is going to get barred. happens to all good players who rob the nits at $5 tournaments. the good player ought to just realize this is an inevitable result and take the ban hammer with good grace. His real mistake is in pummeling the tournament every week. You got to throw some water in the tank to keep the fish alive buddy...
 
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