Turning Stone - rip off

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
Shady and unethical mean different things. A policy can be shady but ethical, just as a policy can be unethical but not shady. Cleary appears to be attempting to claim that the policy is unethical, but is confusedly using the term shady to do so. Zuglan's policies are clear and transparent. By definition, it is not shady. It is a completely separate issue as to whether or not the policy is ethical. Arguments can be made logically on both sides of that issue. I believe it helps the conversation to maintain one's ability to discern between "shady" and "unethical".

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/unethical
 

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Having a hard time translating this to English but from what I understand of it, I didn't do that when I bought my house. Sorry.

Sorry lol, autocorrect strikes again lol. Point was, you buy a house and enter into an agreement for x dollars. You want to secure property while you get your sheet together with financing or whatever so you out earnest money into escrow to show you are serious. If you get your money and complete sale fine - all good. You don't you lose your " earnest money " - period. Happens every day of the year in the real estate world. Nobody cries over it. The point of my earlier post was supposed to be it doesn't matter WHAT the reason is that you don't hold up your end of the contract, it just matters that you dont. Btw, someone saying your sub 500 Fargo is what like an apa 3 or 4? Lol. We all know your no where near that low of a level come on now!
 

BmoreMoney

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There was plenty of competition for the Joss tour in the Philly/NY/NJ area (I don't know about further North). In the late 90's it was the Tim Scruggs tour. In the early 2000's, it was the NE Players tour (where the tournament director stole all of the year end championship event money). Then (and still current) it was the Mezz Tour run by Burgos.

The Joss tour definitly brought the superstar players. The other tours, only brought the local and some regional players.

I actually never heard this, who was accused of stealing the purse?
 

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
I've yet to hear one good reason why this policy should be in place as it is other than, it's his tournament he can do what he wants. And, that's absolutely true. And, I can criticize the policy.

I'll give you one good reason. YOU are not the aggrieved person. YOU have no business complaining about something YOU have no FIRSTHAND knowledge of. Only second hand hearsay. Your friends told you about it. If THEY are so aggrieved, have THEM complain to Mike. THEY can even complain here if they so choose. Tell me again about how moral your position is!

Lyn
 

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
Judge Lyn has ruled you have no Standing

Yep, #99 told me so!

Think about it, does Andrew have first hand knowledge of MZ's policy or not. He has never played at the Turning Stone. How does he know as a fact what Mike's policy is? Has he contacted MZ and discussed it directly? He only knows what his friends told him. Yet, without this knowledge, he demands the moral high ground on this thread. Yep, the judge has spoken (and I hope he goes yard!)!

Lyn
 

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
Sorry lol, autocorrect strikes again lol. Point was, you buy a house and enter into an agreement for x dollars. You want to secure property while you get your sheet together with financing or whatever so you out earnest money into escrow to show you are serious. If you get your money and complete sale fine - all good. You don't you lose your " earnest money " - period. Happens every day of the year in the real estate world. Nobody cries over it. The point of my earlier post was supposed to be it doesn't matter WHAT the reason is that you don't hold up your end of the contract, it just matters that you dont. Btw, someone saying your sub 500 Fargo is what like an apa 3 or 4? Lol. We all know your no where near that low of a level come on now!

When I bought my house, I don't recall this process.

The Fargo rating doesn't track the tournaments I play in. Maybe because they're handicapped? Maybe they don't send him info? Not sure. But anyway he has a very limited amount of games from me and the ones he does have are kind of silly. Like when I played in the us open 10ball as a joke... etc. If I were to guess, I'd say I'm a 550/560 or so. Still, not great... but whatever
 

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
Yep, #99 told me so!

Think about it, does Andrew have first hand knowledge of MZ's policy or not. He has never played at the Turning Stone. How does he know as a fact what Mike's policy is? Has he contacted MZ and discussed it directly? He only knows what his friends told him. Yet, without this knowledge, he demands the moral high ground on this thread. Yep, the judge has spoken (and I hope he goes yard!)!

Lyn

So I need to get burned personally to have an opinion on something? Gotcha. lol

I'll send him my $200 now for the next tournament. Or am I blacklisted? lol
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
TWENTY-ONE PAGES!! I think everyone on both sides of this have pretty much aired it out. Is it "shut -it down' time? Let's hope so. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
TWENTY-ONE PAGES!! I think everyone on both sides of this have pretty much aired it out. Is it "shut -it down' time? Let's hope so. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

That's only one page a year....we can do better than that.
 

cardiac kid

Super Senior Member
Silver Member
So I need to get burned personally to have an opinion on something? Gotcha. lol

From your first post on this thread, you have claimed you are the one with morals. Accusing someone of stealing from players based on second hand information puts YOUR morals into question. If this information is true, have the players in question post themselves. Or are they afraid of being barred by the Joss Tour? Actually doubt that will happen.

I'll send him my $200 now for the next tournament. Or am I blacklisted? lol

Please do send in your $200 for the event in January. Doubt if your blacklisted. Not the way Mike has worked in the past. You'll have to do something much worse. I'm sure he will welcome you as he does me. Won't be seeing me, I'll be in Vegas in January.

Lyn
 

us820

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The one good reason is that pool players are fickle and can't be trusted to show up.This helps assure anyone that plops down the entry is serious about playing.Aggrivation has a price and apparently to him it is 2 bills.I can't hardly ever go to a local tourney that actually starts on time or doesnt have guys call and say they are coming and then vanish in to thin air only to be heard from next week with a bullshit excuse....If he is so bad ,fill the market void with your "any excuse honored" program and have fun putting up with all the nonsense.
 

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
Well, I'd say it's clear now what I need to do. It seems the only way I'll get some respect is to have my own pool tournament so that's what I'm gonna do. And be very transparent about my policies.

Introducing the fist annual $1,000,000 for first place Cleary Tournament!

Very happy about this, I'm putting my money where my mouth is.

December 7-10 in New York City
256 max entry. Entry dude by Oct 29th
$1 million for first place, guaranteed!
10ball, race to 5, winner break
Anyone can play!!
$75 entry (no green fees!!!)

A few policies:
-No refunds, no exceptions
-dress code: must wear clown outfit (bonus ball uniforms qualify)
-must prepay by October 29th
-tournament director (myself) can play in the event
-no chewing gum
-break bucket rules in effect
-TD can throw you out of tournament, for any reason or for no reason, at any time
-no jump cues


Please contact me to send your money. Thanks.
 

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
WOW WOW WOW! After just a few minutes entries are pouring in!!

6 entries already (one of them is mine though). Unfortunately, 5 of the players have already been kicked out of the tournament for various reasons, which I'll state because I need to be transparent.

One player was kicked off because I didn't like the spelling of his name. The second player was Mike Dechaine and I just don't like him. The third, I didn't like the sound my phone made when their PayPal payment came through so he had to go! The fourth, he took too long to send the entry and the fifth I just thought he seemed like a bad seed and this is a tournament for classy people.

All of them got super mad but I mean, it's their fault. I clearly stated my policy so it's not like what I'm doing is shady or unethical in any way.

But anyway, keep the entries coming gonna be a great event!!
 

watchez

What time is it?
Silver Member
Not important to any of this discussion, but no, no do not play over 500 speed.

Mike Page -- I know it gets old as a point of contradiction but you can bet your pool room if you find any legitimate sub 500 player to play Cleary. Like he said, your system isn't perfect. To put it in perspective, Cleary plays better than me --- which still isn't saying much. :thumbup:
 

mikepage

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My rating isn't over 500, that doesn't mean I don't play over 500 speed. Fix your system.

Look.... you don't have a rating in our system because you don't have 200 games...

[snip poor judgment part]
 
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