Turning Stone - rip off

I have a mba and this is a horrible business practice that just about any where but professional pool ( Where the players have few options), it would be a death knell to a business owner.

Jaden

True on the business owner depending on the business but I see this as more a sporting event than a business. If you buy tickets to a game and then can't make it, unless you can sell the tickets, you are out that money. They will only refund you if the event is canceled. As long as you know that when you buy the tickets then it's up to you to make it to the event or forfeit the tickets/money.
The fact that MZ makes this known ahead of time, I can't believe this thread has lasted as long as it has.
 
Do they allow aiming systems at this tournament, and if so what is the absolute best one to use?
 
I have a mba and this is a horrible business practice that just about any where but professional pool ( Where the players have few options), it would be a death knell to a business owner.

Since when did honoring your agreements, that both parties entered into completely voluntarily and without duress, become a horrible business practice? Not on this planet it hasn't..

And you do very often see a no refund policy outside of the pool world. I see it absolutely everywhere, all the time. What isn't as common though, particularly in the pool world, is always honoring your word, and always treating everyone equally. By all accounts Mike does both, and both can be seen in this very policy.
 
True on the business owner depending on the business but I see this as more a sporting event than a business. If you buy tickets to a game and then can't make it, unless you can sell the tickets, you are out that money. They will only refund you if the event is canceled. As long as you know that when you buy the tickets then it's up to you to make it to the event or forfeit the tickets/money.
The fact that MZ makes this known ahead of time, I can't believe this thread has lasted as long as it has.

And you're not allowed to "sell your ticket" in this case. Also, if you don't go to the game they don't sell your ticket again to someone else. That would be a bad business practice.
 
I want to lodge a complaint that we had no darkness from the eclipse here in D.C. What a ripoff!
 
I want to lodge a complaint that we had no darkness from the eclipse here in D.C. What a ripoff!

Sorry, God issues no refunds, you must read the fine print. Even God protects thy self ;)
 
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I want to lodge a complaint that we had no darkness from the eclipse here in D.C. What a ripoff!

Mitsubishi feels your pain....
..send your details to the closest dealer.....and receive an Eclipse....

IMG_4588.JPG
 
Why would that fall to the casino?? They are providing the venue, it wouldn't be up to them to bring in the tables, they aren't responsible for them.

The real question is why would it fall onto the players as was incorrectly described and incorrectly supposedly used by MZ and the double dip.

The casino pays for it cause it is part of the deal MZ made to bring in 128+ degenerate gamblers into the casino for a few days.
 
Also, if you don't go to the game they don't sell your ticket again to someone else. That would be a bad business practice.

There are real big difference between the ticket for a spectator, which can be used any time up until the game ends (the person can even show up just to watch the last 5 minutes if they want), and the ticket for a player who does not have the luxury of being able to show up toward the end of an event or whenever else they want like the spectator can. They are totally different products.

If they were able to resell your spectator seat to the football game to someone else they likely would, and there wouldn't be a thing wrong with it. There just isn't a practical way for them to be able to tell that you won't be attending until the game is already over though. Spectator seats and player entry spots are two totally different things with their own unique characteristics for when they are able to be used, and for when you are able to be able to tell that they aren't going to be used.

There are other big differences that necessitate treating a spectator seat differently than a player entry as well. Nobody cares if a seat ends up empty at the football stadium. However, if one of the teams doesn't have anybody to fill a position on the team, that is a much bigger deal. Seat 38 N in the stadium isn't filled. Ok, so what. One of the teams doesn't have a tight end. Now that's a much bigger deal. Likewise it is important that Mike resells any empty player slots because everybody would rather see as full of a field as possible rather than empty slots on the bracket. Having as many player slots filled in the tournament as possible also probably helps Mike in being able to market the event and attract as many vendors and spectators as possible, and get the best deal from the casino, etc. Being able to show (and then ultimately deliver) a full bracket (especially one that fills up in advance) goes a long way in a lot of ways with a lot of people.

As for reselling your ticket to somebody else, there are big differences between spectator tickets and player entry spots too. If you can't make the football game and you sell your seat to your neighbor Bob, nobody is going to care. The stadium or anybody else doesn't care in the least who shows up to fill your seat in the stadium, whether it is you, or your neighbor Bob, or even if nobody shows up to fill that seat at all. They do need to know that all the player positions are going to filled on the field though, and by who, as that is something that is much more important that people actually care about. Because of this the ticket sellers for the football game don't have to follow up to see who is going to end up in seat 38 N, or even if anybody is going to show up to fill that seat at all, and same thing with a spectator seat at the pool tournament. Different story when it is a player though. If you were able to sell you ticket to another player, Mike now has to go track down and speak with that player to confirm that he did indeed buy the spot and is going to play, because Mike can't chance having an empty slot in the player field. This is a hassle which he may want to minimize as much as possible, and this can be accomplished by having the no refund policy to ensure that only the people that are really serious about playing will sign up.

Aside from the hassle of dealing with the many substitutions that would likely occur if he allowed players to sell their spots, another reason he may not want to allow it is that he may want to be able to advertise who is going to be in the event, and then be able to deliver on it. If he advertises that Shane, Shaw, Efren and Earl are in the event, and then it ends up being Tom, Dick, and Harry and you in those spots instead, lots of people (fans, vendors, the host site, etc) are going to be disappointed and upset. The no refund policy ensures that who Mike advertised as being in the field is largely who ends up actually playing because it kept most of the tire kickers and people who weren't really sure if they would be able to make it or not from signing up. Other good reasons for having the no refund and no selling your entry spots policies have already been covered elsewhere in the thread.
 
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I think he is using it in the same sense as 'be a mensch', i.e., an upstanding person who, among other things, does not seek to profit from another's misfortune. A rigid no refund policy on a payment made months in advance, that takes no account of the vicissitudes of life is the antithesis of being a mensch or, as was said, acting like a human being.



Thanks for sharing your opinion. My statement stands. And I don't believe Mike seeks to profit from others' misfortunes. I think he seeks to have a full field of players that show up and play. His event has been very successful at filling fields. Flexibility with principles is certainly a hallmark quality of "human beings"...hence the horrific things that have occurred throughout history. Think it through.

On the other hand, someone said "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds" or something like that. So touché Emerson (I think?)

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
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Shady may have derived from being in the shadows; however, it has become a colloquialism meaning anything unethical, below board, or shadowy in nature.



Jaden



The decay of the English language depends on the consistent misuse of words, the failure to discern the subtle differences in words, and the flexibility in principles that facilitates this.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
I think he is using it in the same sense as 'be a mensch', i.e., an upstanding person who, among other things, does not seek to profit from another's misfortune. A rigid no refund policy on a payment made months in advance, that takes no account of the vicissitudes of life is the antithesis of being a mensch or, as was said, acting like a human being.

Ah, the vicissitudes of life, one of my favorite terms. Means, the ups and downs of life. In the case of pool players, probably more downs than ups. The fact that people are arguing over $200 pretty much indicates to me that the pool community is more consumed with the downs of life. In no time at all, you can spend that in Hendricks Gin. Why so much of a big deal...?

A no refund policy, in most cases, is good. It encourages responsibility, to show up. Mostly, I think that's good. Avoids the grifters who just want to play the system a bit.

Then again, I'm a stuck leaf, in the downspout of life. A ragged claw, scuttling along the floor of a silent sea. So, what do I know.

I know this. If you pay an entry fee for a tournament, show up, shut up, and play. And, by the way, don't whine, at any time. During play, after play, or years after play, when you still have to replay it in your mind. Stop whining.

Yours for no more whining in this sport, which needs help.

All the best,
WW
 
There are real big difference between the ticket for a spectator, which can be used any time up until the game ends (the person can even show up just to watch the last 5 minutes if they want), and the ticket for a player who does not have the luxury of being able to show up toward the end of an event or whenever else they want like the spectator can. They are totally different products.

If they were able to resell your spectator seat to the football game to someone else they likely would, and there wouldn't be a thing wrong with it. There just isn't a practical way for them to be able to tell that you won't be attending until the game is already over though. Spectator seats and player entry spots are two totally different things with their own unique characteristics for when they are able to be used, and for when you are able to be able to tell that they aren't going to be used.

There are other big differences that necessitate treating a spectator seat differently than a player entry as well. Nobody cares if a seat ends up empty at the football stadium. However, if one of the teams doesn't have anybody to fill a position on the team, that is a much bigger deal. Seat 38 N in the stadium isn't filled. Ok, so what. One of the teams doesn't have a tight end. Now that's a much bigger deal. Likewise it is important that Mike resells any empty player slots because everybody would rather see as full of a field as possible rather than empty slots on the bracket. Having as many player slots filled in the tournament as possible also probably helps Mike in being able to market the event and attract as many vendors and spectators as possible, and get the best deal from the casino, etc. Being able to show (and then ultimately deliver) a full bracket (especially one that fills up in advance) goes a long way in a lot of ways with a lot of people.

As for reselling your ticket to somebody else, there are big differences between spectator tickets and player entry spots too. If you can't make the football game and you sell your seat to your neighbor Bob, nobody is going to care. The stadium or anybody else doesn't care in the least who shows up to fill your seat in the stadium, whether it is you, or your neighbor Bob, or even if nobody shows up to fill that seat at all. They do need to know that all the player positions are going to filled on the field though, and by who, as that is something that is much more important that people actually care about. Because of this the ticket sellers for the football game don't have to follow up to see who is going to end up in seat 38 N, or even if anybody is going to show up to fill that seat at all, and same thing with a spectator seat at the pool tournament. Different story when it is a player though. If you were able to sell you ticket to another player, Mike now has to go track down and speak with that player to confirm that he did indeed buy the spot and is going to play, because Mike can't chance having an empty slot in the player field. This is a hassle which he may want to minimize as much as possible, and this can be accomplished by having the no refund policy to ensure that only the people that are really serious about playing will sign up.

Aside from the hassle of dealing with the many substitutions that would likely occur if he allowed players to sell their spots, another reason he may not want to allow it is that he may want to be able to advertise who is going to be in the event, and then be able to deliver on it. If he advertises that Shane, Shaw, Efren and Earl are in the event, and then it ends up being Tom, Dick, and Harry and you in those spots instead, lots of people (fans, vendors, the host site, etc) are going to be disappointed and upset. The no refund policy ensures that who Mike advertised as being in the field is largely who ends up actually playing because it kept most of the tire kickers and people who weren't really sure if they would be able to make it or not from signing up. Other good reasons for having the no refund and no selling your entry spots policies have already been covered elsewhere in the thread.

Too long; didn't read
 
A prairie dog colony or "town" consists of a large number of closely spaced burrows, each comprising an elaborate network of interconnecting tunnels and multiple entrance holes that provide escape routes from pursuing predators.

Prairie dogs warn of territorial trespassers from adjacent coteries or approaching danger by emitting a series of "barks," which sound more like high-pitched squeaks.

Two Prairie Dogs on the lookout for predators
 

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Too long; didn't read

It was a bunch of stuff about similar situations.

A lotta stuff about spots not geting filled, which is not the case with TS.

Also, stuff about players selling their spots, which is not what you initially sought.

So many words.
 
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