Tyler/Billy Thorpe drama

[alphadog]

Player don't go up by playing against stronger competition. They pretty much get to the rating they're performing at regardless of their competition.

Mike you have a good thing but it isn't fool proof.

Let's say I am a unkown player and I only play 500s.
I win at the rate as a 600should as per your Fargo #'s.
Now since the 500s know they don't play well enough to go anywhere how is my Fargo going to go up?

Another thing is a young player who has many games in with other young/lesser players will show a lag in their fargo catching up with them if immersed in the game and their abilities escalate. SVB became a much better player after a year grinding on the road. There is bound to be others.

 

[CaleAYS]

Tyler spotted Jesus the nine ball playing ten ball, and the final score was Atencio 100 Styer 94.

That’s actually the game Tyler offered to Billy as well. The OP didn’t post the entire thread but it started with Tyler telling Sky he will play Billy the same way he played Atencio for any amount Billy wants.

 

[mikepage]

Mike you have a good thing but it isn't fool proof.

Let's say I am a unkown player and I only play 500s.
I win at the rate as a 600should as per your Fargo #'s.
Now since the 500s know they don't play well enough to go anywhere how is my Fargo going to go up?

Another thing is a young player who has many games in with other young/lesser players will show a lag in their fargo catching up with them if immersed in the game and their abilities escalate. SVB became a much better player after a year grinding on the road. There is bound to be others.

I don't understand your 600/500 scenario.

If Fastone was suggesting more games against elite players would help actual improvement, that's fine. But I think he may have been imagining it is harder to get an elite rating logging games against regional opponents than against elite opponents. And it isn't.

I just computed the approximate performance rating Tyler's 4300 games played in the last four years breaking them into two groups by rating. The bottom half of the games are against Vivian Villareal (694) and below and the average opponent is 618. Tyler's approximate performance is 764.8 for those games. The other half, 695 and up and averaging 749, his performance is 760.8, essentially the same.

Basically if Tyler only played the Wisconsin games, his rating would be about the same.

The Australian Justin Sajich (751) who will be playing against US team opening round of World Cup in a few days first came to our attention when he was rated about 760 based I think only on pool league games in Australia. He gets games in through FargoRate LMS.

 

[jay helfert]

Tyler spotted Jesus the nine ball playing ten ball, and the final score was Atencio 100 Styer 94.

Thanks Stu. Should be a good match if they do play.

 

[jay helfert]

That’s actually the game Tyler offered to Billy as well. The OP didn’t post the entire thread but it started with Tyler telling Sky he will play Billy the same way he played Atencio for any amount Billy wants.

I think Billy will take this game, if that's true.

 

[sjm]

That’s actually the game Tyler offered to Billy as well. The OP didn’t post the entire thread but it started with Tyler telling Sky he will play Billy the same way he played Atencio for any amount Billy wants.

That's hard to believe. Very tough action for Tyler if he spots Billy the nine.

 

[CaleAYS]

I think Billy will take this game, if that's true.

 

[skogstokig]

The Australian Justin Sajich (751) who will be playing against US team opening round of World Cup in a few days first came to our attention when he was rated about 760 based I think only on pool league games in Australia. He gets games in through FargoRate LMS.

is that english 8-ball league games?

 

[mikepage]

is that english 8-ball league games?

No, that's the Diamond League, American 8-Ball played on 7-foot Diamond tables mostly I think around Sydney.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Tyler must have a screw loose if he’s offering weight to Billy.

 

[fastone371]

Player don't go up by playing against stronger competition. They pretty much get to the rating they're performing at regardless of their competition.

So a 550 player beating a 650 player 75% of the time doesnt carry anymore weight than that same 550 beating a 450 player 75% of the time??

 

[mikepage]

So a 550 player beating a 650 player 75% of the time doesnt carry anymore weight than that same 550 beating a 450 player 75% of the time??

I don't know what you mean by carry more weight. Beating a 650 is harder than beating a 450. Those are just very different performances.

 

[fastone371]

I don't know what you mean by carry more weight. Beating a 650 is harder than beating a 450. Those are just very different performances.

That the 550 beating the 650 player has more impact on your Fargo rating change than that 550 beating a 450 rated player.

 

[mikepage]

Tyler must have a screw loose if he’s offering weight to Billy.

That the 550 beating the 650 player has more impact on your Fargo rating change than that 550 beating a 450 rated player.

When a 550 plays 100 games against a 650, he is expected to win 33 of them
When a 550 plays 100 games against a 450, he is expected to win 67 of them

In either case the rating change depends on how much the actual results differ from these. A 550 who is having a good hundred games, i.e., is on a hot streak, can get the benefit of that against either of these opponents.

In a single game, we divide by 100, so
When a 550 plays 1 game against a 650, he is expected to win 0.33 of them
When a 550 plays 1 game against a 450, he is expected to win 0.67 of them

Note that if the 550 wins the 1st game (wins 1.0 games) he will have outperformed expectation by 0.67 games, twice as much as if he wins the second game. But this balances out because he is half as likely to win it.

 

[alphadog]

When a 550 plays 100 games against a 650, he is expected to win 33 of them
When a 550 plays 100 games against a 450, he is expected to win 67 of them

In either case the rating change depends on how much the actual results differ from these. A 550 who is having a good hundred games, i.e., is on a hot streak, can get the benefit of that against either of these opponents.

In a single game, we divide by 100, so
When a 550 plays 1 game against a 650, he is expected to win 0.33 of them
When a 550 plays 1 game against a 450, he is expected to win 0.67 of them

Note that if the 550 wins the 1st game (wins 1.0 games) he will have outperformed expectation by 0.67 games, twice as much as if he wins the second game. But this balances out because he is half as likely to win it.

Doesn't this go against the 100 point spread means a 2 to 1 spread=8-4 or 100-50 ?

 

[u12armresl]

Who is staking Billy now?
It seems like we know a lot of the people in the pool world who are staked but I've not heard anyone from Billy, or I guess even Tyler's camp speak up.

My thought is on one hand, giving weight to Billy is a sure loser for Tyler.
Then I think back to those words I was told long ago, "that ball may not make a difference" and the ever so popular "you can't make your money ball from the chair"

 

[mikepage]

Doesn't this go against the 100 point spread means a 2 to 1 spread=8-4 or 100-50 ?

No, it is the same thing. My example was they played 100 total games, not a race to 100. If they play 150 games, then 100 to 50 is the expexted score (2-to-1). At 100 games it is 67-to-33 (also 2-to-1).

 

[alphadog]

No, it is the same thing. My example was they played 100 total games, not a race to 100. If they play 150 games, then 100 to 50 is the expexted score (2-to-1). At 100 games it is 67-to-33 (also 2-to-1).

That explains the analogy.

1 thing that fargorate makes painfully obvious- in a trnmnt that groups 525 to 650 , the lower player are chum.

For trnmnts to be fair (isn't that the basis of handicap?) only allowing a 50 point difference is still questionable.

 

[gesan]

as a rule the pitchers pay, catchers reap the reward

As usual you read me like the cheap novel I am, butt to relay a story told to me in the old poolroom on us route 1 (you know the one) . The self proclaimed best catcher ever, Bob Euker told me that Doc Holiday once shot a guy for just the mention of corn holing. As I'm sure you know Morgan Earp and Doc were pretty tight. Morgan also played pool so I'm pretty sure it's a true story. Even if it ain't it oughta be.

 

[easy-e]

That explains the analogy.

1 thing that fargorate makes painfully obvious- in a trnmnt that groups 525 to 650 , the lower player are chum.

For trnmnts to be fair (isn't that the basis of handicap?) only allowing a 50 point difference is still questionable.

If it's handicapped, why would they be "chum"? If they're playing even, then definitely.