Unable to generate much backspin - equipment related?

T

TripleM

New member
Hi,

I've owned a pool table for a few years and play regularly (just casually, not with pro equipment or anything).

I've always found it very difficult to generate backspin - in some occasions where the cue ball is near the object ball, I can get a small amount of backwards movement with a very low and hard hit, but half the time the ball just stops, and never anywhere near the amount of movement you see on TV. Topspin is a bit easier, though often this happens when you don't want it to, eg on long shots.

I thought this was just due to technique - until I went to a pool hall recently, where I discovered that I could generate a large amount of backspin consistently using exactly the same technique that I do at home.

What would be the most likely cause of this? Would it be:

a) Quality of the felt, and amount of dust on the felt - I give it a brush occasionally, though I've read vacuuming may be better
b) Quality of the balls, or perhaps size - I noticed ours are a little smaller than what we had at the pool hall
c) Quality of the cue - don't think this is the case as I was getting consistent backspin even without chalk etc at the pool hall.

or something else? It may be a combination of all of the above, but is it likely/well known that you could get a pool table or balls that really make spin extremely difficult?

Any suggestions?
 
probably a+b

do you have old felt? do you have old billiards ball set? try changing the felt and buy a new set of pool balls.

also hitting the cue ball hard won't help you generate backspin, it's about your stroke, a rigid and power stroke is not needed for backspin.
 
TripleM said:
Hi,

I've owned a pool table for a few years and play regularly (just casually, not with pro equipment or anything).

I've always found it very difficult to generate backspin - in some occasions where the cue ball is near the object ball, I can get a small amount of backwards movement with a very low and hard hit, but half the time the ball just stops, and never anywhere near the amount of movement you see on TV. Topspin is a bit easier, though often this happens when you don't want it to, eg on long shots.

I thought this was just due to technique - until I went to a pool hall recently, where I discovered that I could generate a large amount of backspin consistently using exactly the same technique that I do at home.

What would be the most likely cause of this? Would it be:

a) Quality of the felt, and amount of dust on the felt - I give it a brush occasionally, though I've read vacuuming may be better
b) Quality of the balls, or perhaps size - I noticed ours are a little smaller than what we had at the pool hall
c) Quality of the cue - don't think this is the case as I was getting consistent backspin even without chalk etc at the pool hall.

or something else? It may be a combination of all of the above, but is it likely/well known that you could get a pool table or balls that really make spin extremely difficult?

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

It is MUCH easier to draw the ball on new cloth.
 
Weigh the balls. Then weigh the cueball. Cue is probably heavier. Even with dirty cloth, you shouldn't have that hard of a time drawing it back some. My money is on the weight of the cueball.
 
TripleM said:
Hi,

I've owned a pool table for a few years and play regularly (just casually, not with pro equipment or anything).

I've always found it very difficult to generate backspin - in some occasions where the cue ball is near the object ball, I can get a small amount of backwards movement with a very low and hard hit, but half the time the ball just stops, and never anywhere near the amount of movement you see on TV. Topspin is a bit easier, though often this happens when you don't want it to, eg on long shots.

I thought this was just due to technique - until I went to a pool hall recently, where I discovered that I could generate a large amount of backspin consistently using exactly the same technique that I do at home.

What would be the most likely cause of this? Would it be:

a) Quality of the felt, and amount of dust on the felt - I give it a brush occasionally, though I've read vacuuming may be better
b) Quality of the balls, or perhaps size - I noticed ours are a little smaller than what we had at the pool hall
c) Quality of the cue - don't think this is the case as I was getting consistent backspin even without chalk etc at the pool hall.

or something else? It may be a combination of all of the above, but is it likely/well known that you could get a pool table or balls that really make spin extremely difficult?

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

If you would like the answer to your promblem call me.
Ray Martin 727 798 5561
 
TripleM...I'll bet it's more related to the quality of your stroke...even though you seemed to be able to draw at the poolroom. Get a video analysis of your stroke, from a qualified instructor.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

TripleM said:
Hi,

I've owned a pool table for a few years and play regularly (just casually, not with pro equipment or anything).

I've always found it very difficult to generate backspin - in some occasions where the cue ball is near the object ball, I can get a small amount of backwards movement with a very low and hard hit, but half the time the ball just stops, and never anywhere near the amount of movement you see on TV. Topspin is a bit easier, though often this happens when you don't want it to, eg on long shots.

I thought this was just due to technique - until I went to a pool hall recently, where I discovered that I could generate a large amount of backspin consistently using exactly the same technique that I do at home.

What would be the most likely cause of this? Would it be:

a) Quality of the felt, and amount of dust on the felt - I give it a brush occasionally, though I've read vacuuming may be better
b) Quality of the balls, or perhaps size - I noticed ours are a little smaller than what we had at the pool hall
c) Quality of the cue - don't think this is the case as I was getting consistent backspin even without chalk etc at the pool hall.

or something else? It may be a combination of all of the above, but is it likely/well known that you could get a pool table or balls that really make spin extremely difficult?

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
 
I have some CBs with worn surfaces. I tend to let the surfaces collect chalk dust over time. This slows the CB down by adding friction between the CB and the clothe and adds a lot of throw to the CB-OB collisions. Every couple of weeks, I polish up the CBs;

Presto, a CB that would draw only 3 feet, will now draw 9 diamonds. The action is much livelier!
 
We had a pool table for years when I was younger. Could only get the CB to draw back a few inches. Got on a real table and my draw is fantastic. Problem was that the bed of the table was wood and cheap balls.

So the problem may be the type of bed you have.

The composition of the CB has a affect. Some are just dead. A cheap CB made out of crap will react the same way.

If the CB weights more than the OB it will be harder to draw the ball, If the CB is lighter it will be easier. If the CB is dirty it will not get as much spin. Try cleaning and polishing the CB and then use some CB wax on it.

The type and condition of the cloth affects it also.

If you are using the same cue somewhere else and don't have any problem that can be eliminated.
 
Triple, are you having problems drawing with a large cue ball? Some places still have those. I call it the volleyball :)
 
Push on your cloth with your fingers. If there is a lot of slack, remove your rails, stretch your cloth tight and staple back down. I can draw almost two 7' table lengths on a full table shot... recently picked up an old table for the garage and couldn't draw two feet. I stretched the cloth and it solved the issue. Also quality of the cloth makes some difference. A heavy cue ball will make it tough to draw as well.... but I'd be willing to bet that your cloth is gathering and keeping the ball from spinning. Try stretching it and let us know.
 
Ray,

I've always been a big fan of your 14.1 game and the classic, highly useful info you conveyed in your book "The 99 Critical Shots in Pool." I was a spectator when you took the title match in '71 and '74 (I missed the 3rd time in '78 when you won out over Hopkins).

If your generously-offered take on ideal backspin application -- that you'll be conveying to the OP when he/she calls -- isn't being held close to the vest for future inclusion in a magazine article or book (which would be quite understandable), why not consider posting the answer(s) here in a few paragraphs here after your conversation?

Such a backspin summary would be of great interest to hundreds of your fans who read AZB threads virtually every day. Hopefully more than a few might be contacting you for the highly regarded personal private lessons you offered for years to elevate your students' game.

Arnaldo
 
TripleM said:
Hi,

I've owned a pool table for a few years and play regularly (just casually, not with pro equipment or anything).

I've always found it very difficult to generate backspin - in some occasions where the cue ball is near the object ball, I can get a small amount of backwards movement with a very low and hard hit, but half the time the ball just stops, and never anywhere near the amount of movement you see on TV. Topspin is a bit easier, though often this happens when you don't want it to, eg on long shots.

I thought this was just due to technique - until I went to a pool hall recently, where I discovered that I could generate a large amount of backspin consistently using exactly the same technique that I do at home.

What would be the most likely cause of this? Would it be:

a) Quality of the felt, and amount of dust on the felt - I give it a brush occasionally, though I've read vacuuming may be better
b) Quality of the balls, or perhaps size - I noticed ours are a little smaller than what we had at the pool hall
c) Quality of the cue - don't think this is the case as I was getting consistent backspin even without chalk etc at the pool hall.

or something else? It may be a combination of all of the above, but is it likely/well known that you could get a pool table or balls that really make spin extremely difficult?

Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

If you were trying to masse the cue ball and couldn't, I could understand that as cloth/balls/dirt can all have an effect on trying to masse the cue ball....but not being able to draw you cue ball back has nothing to do with any of the conditions you or anyone else in this tread posted as a possible reason as to why not....it's your stroke. Cue balls that are waxed will make any player look like they can draw the CB back like a pro, don't need much of a stroke to pull that one off. But when the CB is not slippery from wax...that's when you can really tell if you have a stroke or not. Under bad conditions you should still be able to draw your CB back, maybe not as far as you can on a perfect playing table, but never-the-less....if you have the correct stroke you should still be able to draw the ball back somewhat...even on the carpeted floor in your house;)
 
TripleM said:
... Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
No one here can tell you what the problem is because we don't have enough info. Part of it is not knowing what your level is and part of it is not knowing what sort of equipment you use.

It may be that your cue ball is too large for your object balls. You can remove that unknown by trying to draw your one ball off the nine ball and then the nine ball off the one ball. If both of those don't work even when the "cue" ball is close to the object ball, we can work on the next step.
 
WILLING TO BET THIS IS THE ISSUE:

Read my reply on page 1... I have a big draw stroke but couldn't get any on my junk home table till I re stretched the cloth. Went from a foot of draw to two table lengths in the 20 minutes it took to remove the rails and stretch and staple the cloth. I'm surprised I'm the only one here who has been mentioning this... stroke aside, the biggest spin killer is the cloth gathering under the ball. Tight cloth is very important in reducing friction between table and ball. Humidity is also a factor... wet cloth also kills the cb a bit...

Pool table cloth, especially the cheap stuff, relaxes over time and MUST be stretched or replaced. My table sat in a friend's garage for 25 years under a bunch of junk. I got it home and could grab an inch of cloth between my thumb and finger. Played terrible. Stretched it and cleaned it... problem solved instantly.
 
I'd say take a clean striped ball at home, stripe perpendicular to the shot and hit some draw shots.

See clearly if your spinning that ball at all. Either right from the hit and/or is it killing the spin on the way to the object ball and/or is it retaining any spin after impact with the object ball.

Thats should tell you right away what the problem is.
 
spindoctor9 said:
Push on your cloth with your fingers. If there is a lot of slack, remove your rails, stretch your cloth tight and staple back down. I can draw almost two 7' table lengths on a full table shot... recently picked up an old table for the garage and couldn't draw two feet. I stretched the cloth and it solved the issue. Also quality of the cloth makes some difference. A heavy cue ball will make it tough to draw as well.... but I'd be willing to bet that your cloth is gathering and keeping the ball from spinning. Try stretching it and let us know.
Click to expand...


Bingo.

I think the OP should check the cloth for slack before doing anything else. This is a common problem with home tables --- for various reasons.
 
FranCrimi said:
Bingo.

I think the OP should check the cloth for slack before doing anything else. This is a common problem with home tables --- for various reasons.
Click to expand...
Well, his cloth may be loose, but he said:
I've always found it very difficult to generate backspin - in some occasions where the cue ball is near the object ball, I can get a small amount of backwards movement with a very low and hard hit,
Click to expand...
and in my experience, even the loosest cloth will allow draw if the cue ball is close to the object ball.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top