USA, all the way?

West Point 1987 said:
I'm saying that the standard of play in America is higher among larger numbers of players in more rooms than it was 30 years ago when I started. I'll see more A level and above players in a large local tournament now than back in the early '80s. That said, we don't have as many players in the top 30 as we did back then, either. That means European and Asian players have started moving in on those spots, but I don't think you'll find as many players in the next 200 slots that aren't Americans. I've spent a large portion of my adult life in Europe in the Army...although there are plenty of good players, there's NO comparison in terms of action, local tournaments, regional tournaments and average level of play from room to room. That's why so many of Europe's top players are living in the U.S. now. If we had a Crucible-worthy snooker player, I'm sure he'd move to the UK.
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You should visit Asia some time. Japan alone has 300+ registered professional players. Now not all of them are pro level players because all you have to do is pass a pro test that is held twice a year, but they probably average out at around shortstop speed and about 30 are genuine world class pool players (20 have never stepped foot outside of Japan).

There are probably 2-3 times that amount of SA ranked players who are essentially shortstop or better players that have no desire to go pro (because you have to pay a ~$150 a month membership fee). To be considered an SA, you have to win 2 or more big events. Then keep in mind that Japan isn't even really a pool playing country.

According to friends who have played in Japan, Taiwan, and the Philippines, there is no comparison in average level of play. The Philippines and Taiwan are much much stronger.

I think the reason European pros move to the US is because there isn't a whole lot of money to be made in the Philippines or Taiwan gambling (seriously, who wants to step into the box with Orcullo or Yang?) and the language/cultural barrier is quite difficult to surmount. Not because of a lack of good to very good players.
 
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I'm starting to get a great understanding of why our forefathers left the wondrous lands of not so great brittan.

Thaig, you must lead a boring life if this is the only way you can get your thrills.
 
There are a lot of great European players but the truth is pool in Europe is even smaller than what it is in America. In England pool is considered a past time, in Italy pool is not considered at all, in France I don't know but judging by the numbers of top players ( only Cohen and Fouquet come to mind atm) I believe even there is very small. The only country where pool is "big" is Germany.
Also there aren't a lot of tournaments. The Eurotour events have very small prize money. I believe the top players play there more for training.
If you want to play pool you must live in America or in Asia.
JAM said:
USA will always shine brightly in the eyes of the rest of the world. There are those who are quick to shoot down the United States as losing its ground in the ranking of world power, but there is a reason why everybody wants to come to America to visit, live, or just hang out. It's more than the so-called "American dream."

Anybody who doesn't like the United States, including its citizens, can speak freely and express why. Try doing that in Iran, as an example, and see where you end up. Freedom of speech is a gift that not everybody enjoys.

People flock to our shores to receive an education. True, many of them return to their home country and flourish, but in the spirit of innovation and helping the future when it comes to environmental issues and technology, we all win in the long run when this happens.

In sum, it's okay that "TheThaiger" pokes a stick at the United States, because those of us Americans who are fortunate to live here are blessed in so many ways. And we know what time of day it is. Today, the United States and Britain are strong allies, which is a good thing. We make a good team when it comes to combating the terrorism and demons that exist in today's world. Truth be told, though, I think they're still pissed that we became the super power that we are, surpassing that British Isle long ago, and there was nothing they could do to stop us.

Yep, USA, all the way. We're still on a roll, even today! ;)
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to be totally honest nobody in Europe believes anymore in the "american dream". I have parents who came in America during the 60s and know they are American citizens. They live in America and they are happy. However now the situation is very different.
I noticed many people praise america without even being in Europe. I visited during the years Austria, Germany, Spain, Russia, England, France, Lithuania, Sweden and Poland. Right know many people say the best places to live in the world are north Europe, followed by England, Germany and France. Italy is a beautiful place where to spend your holidays but not where to live.
Not saying the USA are a bad place to live (at all).
 
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I think it’s happening in every sport – globalization.

30 years ago, tennis was dominated by Americans, with exceptions – like the Aussies, Bjorn Borg and Martina Navritilova. It’s not anymore. Federer – Swiss. Nadal – Spanish. Djokovic – Serbian.

20 years ago, Americans dominated golf. Not anymore, even on our own soil.

Hispanics make up about 30% of current MLB baseball rosters.

No surprise that it would happen in pool, too, especially since it’s a mainstream sport in Asia and a fringe sport here that comes with a lot of PR baggage. Now, with the prize money increasing in Asia, and the travel time/cost to the US not worth the effort or payouts, and the gambling money better there, I think most Asian players will stay home and whatever dominance the US once had in pool will continue to decline.

Not saying this is good or bad but I think it’s inevitable.
 
It is interesting to read the contributions to this thread, but what's more enlightening is, gee, this is an American-based pool forum. They come from around the world to read this American pool forum. That speaks volumes! :smile:

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TheThaiger said:
Does the world of pool need the USA? What does the US offer the rest of the world?

Players? Nope.
Tournaments? Nope.
Technique? (stop laughing at the back) Nope.
TV coverage? Nope.
Innovation? I don't think so, but am happy to be corrected.

I see the US as existing in its own Darwinian bubble, with your game evolving in a different direction to the rest of the world. I see it as pining for a lost age, and not embracing a potentially golden tomorrow. I see it protecting its past, not chasing its future. Sentimental nostalgia is hardwired throughout these forums.

Snooker is in rude health. It saturated its traditional market and has sought new ones around the globe. The anti China sentiment I see a lot on this forum is crazy - there's 1.5 BILLION people in that market and you're pulling up the drawbridge and restocking the moat? It doesn't make any sense to me.

Quality products from Predator and Kamui get bashed here all the time, yet American made products of dubious worth are lauded and prized. There is no end to the cost of a product if we TRULY believe it will help us. Protectionism is rife. The lines between what's in the best interest of the sport and the best interests of business are blurred.

Above all, there seems to be no strategic plan or even thinking. All I see is further slow descent - and that's in nobody's best interest.
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Until you can answer the questions that have been put to you considering why so many European pool players move to the US, you should just retract your statement and shut the hell up.
 
itsfroze said:
Perhaps you missed the Hard Times Tournament, results?

Check it out it was over yesterday.
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Perhaps you missed the results from 30 of the last 36 years of the US Open.

Check it out, it occurred over the last 36 years.
 
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JAM said:
USA will always shine brightly in the eyes of the rest of the world. There are those who are quick to shoot down the United States as losing its ground in the ranking of world power, but there is a reason why everybody wants to come to America to visit, live, or just hang out. It's more than the so-called "American dream."

Anybody who doesn't like the United States, including its citizens, can speak freely and express why. Try doing that in Iran, as an example, and see where you end up. Freedom of speech is a gift that not everybody enjoys.

People flock to our shores to receive an education. True, many of them return to their home country and flourish, but in the spirit of innovation and helping the future when it comes to environmental issues and technology, we all win in the long run when this happens.

In sum, it's okay that "TheThaiger" pokes a stick at the United States, because those of us Americans who are fortunate to live here are blessed in so many ways. And we know what time of day it is. Today, the United States and Britain are strong allies, which is a good thing. We make a good team when it comes to combating the terrorism and demons that exist in today's world. Truth be told, though, I think they're still pissed that we became the super power that we are, surpassing that British Isle long ago, and there was nothing they could do to stop us.

Yep, USA, all the way. We're still on a roll, even today! ;)
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For NPR, perhaps, but we're not pissed that you've surpassed us. We are, however, mightily dismayed with the direction you've gone. Your post is full of spin and manipulation, but as I say, that's for NPR.
 
JAM said:
It is interesting to read the contributions to this thread, but what's more enlightening is, gee, this is an American-based pool forum. They come from around the world to read this American pool forum. That speaks volumes! :smile:

flag_2.gif
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No it doesn't. This site is called AZBilliards.com, not USBilliards.com.
 
Taco said:
I think it’s happening in every sport – globalization.

30 years ago, tennis was dominated by Americans, with exceptions – like the Aussies, Bjorn Borg and Martina Navritilova. It’s not anymore. Federer – Swiss. Nadal – Spanish. Djokovic – Serbian.

20 years ago, Americans dominated golf. Not anymore, even on our own soil.

Hispanics make up about 30% of current MLB baseball rosters.

No surprise that it would happen in pool, too, especially since it’s a mainstream sport in Asia and a fringe sport here that comes with a lot of PR baggage. Now, with the prize money increasing in Asia, and the travel time/cost to the US not worth the effort or payouts, and the gambling money better there, I think most Asian players will stay home and whatever dominance the US once had in pool will continue to decline.

Not saying this is good or bad but I think it’s inevitable.
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That's very true, and lies at the heart of this debate. American pool appears, to the outsider at least, to be very incestuous, a dwindling pool of rapidly evaporating water.

America needs to broaden its horizons, in the way other countries have done. America doesn't seem to want to compete. A response is needed.
 
If pool is "on the wane"...I would attribute it to the fact that not enough of the older players...and yes even the pros, aren't fostering enough younger players. It is very much a "me, me, me" sport/game. This isn't confined to just the US. Far too often a young person isn't learning the game for the love of the game...but for the money aspect/the hustle. Teach them to love the game for the challenges it poses, and the rest will follow. I realize the money aspect will never not be a part of the game...but it should not be the primary reason one learns to play, because like any other game/sport, there are a very few of the population who are actually proficient enough to make any real $$$ (and have the smarts to keep it) playing it.
 
TheThaiger said:
That's very true, and lies at the heart of this debate. American pool appears, to the outsider at least, to be very incestuous, a dwindling pool of rapidly evaporating water.

America needs to broaden its horizons, in the way other countries have done. America doesn't seem to want to compete. A response is needed.
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So, what has your enlightened superior British intellect came up with to revive pool in the US. What broadening idea shall we embrace?
I can't imaging what could save our non-competitive country. It's amazing that any of us even show up for the Olympics, thankfully though, they understand our situation and just hand us the gold medals so we don't have to compete for them.
And as for pool, are poor over-rated world champions just can't compete with the true British masters of the game. It's a good thing that all of our tables have bucket sized pockets, otherwise we may never make a shot.

Thank you, for straightening us Americans out, I just don't know what we would do without your sterling example.

On a side note, how should we regulate safety measures on our oil rigs?
 
TheThaiger said:
America is pool's biggest market, right?
Pool in America is on the wane, right?

Precisely nothing to do with colonies, and everything to do with pool.
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This would be more believable if you hadn't tried so hard to be unnecessarily insulting.

pj
chgo
 
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