Vote for Straight Pool Hall of Fame Inductees

[14-1StraightMan]

Tap, Tap, Tap

I can appreciate the argument that a 14.1 hall of fame is not necessary, but if we do start one, a 14.1 hall of fame without Mosconi and Greenleaf would be the equivalent of a Baseball Hall of Fame without Ruth and Gehrig. Leaving out Crane, Caras, Sigel and Lassiter, is the equivalent of leaving out Hank Aaron, Ted Williams, Joe DiMaggio, and Willy Mays from the Baseball Hall of Fame.

Well, you get the picture ......

If we start a 14.1 hall of fame, it starts with these six, as any 14.1 hall of fame omitting any of them would be a joke.

Absolutely correct.

 

[Tom In Cincy]

Self-aggrandizement by Dragon.

self-ag·gran·dize·ment (s lf -gr n d z-m nt). n. The act or practice of enhancing or exaggerating one's own importance, power, or reputation. ...


= DP

 

[Bob Jewett]

... If we start a 14.1 hall of fame, it starts with these six, as any 14.1 hall of fame omitting any of them would be a joke.

Yes, the original list was very strange.

 

[Blackjack]

Ignoring the fact that the list of names was an embarrassment. . .

What is the purpose of another hall of fame?

I believe most of the names that were suggested are already in the BCA hall of fame.

I don't get it. Dragon has a terrible habit of calling events 'world events' - and now their own HOF!!!

Give me a break.

All of this naming nonsense makes as much sense as calling the upcoming 14.1 event a'world tournament'. It is a disgrace.

It is not a world tournament!!!

Mark griffin

... and for that reason, Mark - you should spearhead the campaign to make me a write-in candidate for this... "Hall" thing. What the hell, I need help with the travel expenses anyway.

 

[poolmouse]

Dragon Promotions is pleased to announce the very first Straight Pool Hall of Fame during the middle of our World Tournament of 14.1 . The dinner will be on Aug 31,2011 at the Hyatt Regency in New Brunswick, NJ.

Currently we have 5 players on this year's ballot . Our plan is to induct 2 players posthumously and 1 living inductee for 2011. We are considering seniority in age as a factor .
Here are our nominees for this year.

Ray Martin
Dallas West
Nick Varner
Jerome Keough
Alfredo DeOro
Willie Hoppe

The winner will receive expense paid trip and entry into the 71st World Tournament

Thank you for your help!

This post is as rediculous as their SPAM. What idiot came up with this list?

Dragon Promotions (and their pompous leader) should be banned from this forum.

 

[sjm]

Dragon Promotions (and their pompous leader) should be banned from this forum.

By reviving the World 14.1 Championships, Charlie Williams and Dragon Promotions have done more for straight pool in America than any promoter in the world over the past five years. I agree that the original post in this thread was poorly considered, but let's not lose our persective here.

Hope you are well, Don.

 

[Pushout]

I'd be glad to vote, if and when the list is revised.

 

[Mr441]

Who in the world is voting for Hoppe??!!??

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Who in the world is voting for Hoppe??!!??

LOL. Why not throw Samuel Clemens on the list while they're at it?

 

[Blackjack]

LOL. Why not throw Samuel Clemens on the list while they're at it?

... or perhaps Sang Lee.

 

[Cameron Smith]

I agree SJM here. Although I disapprove of choices for the hall of fame, the World 14.1 Championship has been the only consistently help World tournament over the course of the last 5 years and therefore gives it more credibility than any other world championship, WPA sanctioning or not. Before this, 14.1 was all but dead in North America.

 

[Mark Griffin]

Dragon and 14.1

By reviving the World 14.1 Championships, Charlie Williams and Dragon Promotions have done more for straight pool in America than any promoter in the world over the past five years. I agree that the original post in this thread was poorly considered, but let's not lose our persective here.

SJM-
Although I do agree that dragon has done a LOT to help revive 14.1 in this country, I cannot agree with this branding of the event as the 71st world tournament. That is just a cheap shot!

Dragon has had so many world title events is gets crazy. (Billiard Digest once wrote that to call it a world tournament does not make it so)

Because he would not promote the event to WPA standards, they would not sanction him any longer. In fact, I believe Dragon and CW (with some of their arrogance) actually caused the WPA to raise the limits to their current heights ($75,000 added, I believe).

Prior to that, there were several people ready to have a WPA world championship, that would have been recognizes.

Am I the only one that just thinks this kind of grandstanding is ridiculous? I think it taints the integrity of the whole industry.

And then to try to start a HOF that competes with the BCA (all the old time 14.1 are in BCA HOF) - what is the goal?

I wonder if Karim (from predator, Charlie's sponsor) will make a response. After all, he is an officer on the BCA board and he has a duty to protect the BCA.

It might get interesting. I don't like taking shots at people - but CW and Dragon hurt the integrity of the whole industry with these moves and it seems most people just don't care.

Should I care? (that is a real question, please feel free to answer).



Mark griffin

 

[sjm]

By reviving the World 14.1 Championships, Charlie Williams and Dragon Promotions have done more for straight pool in America than any promoter in the world over the past five years. I agree that the original post in this thread was poorly considered, but let's not lose our persective here.

SJM-
Although I do agree that dragon has done a LOT to help revive 14.1 in this country, I cannot agree with this branding of the event as the 71st world tournament. That is just a cheap shot!

Dragon has had so many world title events is gets crazy. (Billiard Digest once wrote that to call it a world tournament does not make it so)

Because he would not promote the event to WPA standards, they would not sanction him any longer. In fact, I believe Dragon and CW (with some of their arrogance) actually caused the WPA to raise the limits to their current heights ($75,000 added, I believe).

Prior to that, there were several people ready to have a WPA world championship, that would have been recognizes.

Am I the only one that just thinks this kind of grandstanding is ridiculous? I think it taints the integrity of the whole industry.

And then to try to start a HOF that competes with the BCA (all the old time 14.1 are in BCA HOF) - what is the goal?

I wonder if Karim (from predator, Charlie's sponsor) will make a response. After all, he is an officer on the BCA board and he has a duty to protect the BCA.

It might get interesting. I don't like taking shots at people - but CW and Dragon hurt the integrity of the whole industry with these moves and it seems most people just don't care.

Should I care? (that is a real question, please feel free to answer).



Mark griffin

Points are well-taken, Mark. However the Dragon event is viewed, though, its inception brought a lot of attention to straight pool and induced others to follow suit in producing straight pool events, and one of the big winners has been the American pool fan.

While straight pool competition was very rare just six years ago, we now have straight pool competitions at each of the a) Valley Forge Super Billiards Expo, b) Derby City Classic, and, thanks to you, c) BCAPL extravaganza. The Maryland Straight Pool Championship has also helped revive interest in a cuesports discipline that nearly fell off the pool map.

Hence, I'll broaden my observation and thank Charlie Williams, Allen Hopkins, Greg Sullivan/Bob Jewett, Peter Burrows and you for combining to revitalize what I believe to be the most graceful of all pool disciplines in America.

As for the idea that a 14.1 HOF would compete with that of the BCA, I would suggest that the same comment could have been made of the One Pocket Hall of Fame upon its inception, but the history suggests that such a conclusion is unjustifiable in that case. Just like one pocket, 14.1 had a lot of greats that were overlooked by the BCA HOF. For example, Pete Margo is one of the best 14.1 players I've ever seen. Jim Fusco, Gene Nagy, Dick Lane and Jack Colavita are other examples of 14.1 greats that lack BCA recognition. If a 14.1 HOF were to bring positive attention to players like these, just as the One Pocket HOF brings attention to players like Rags Fitzpatrick, I would favor it. Of course, I am not in a position to determine what Dragon's motives are in establishing a 14.1 HOF.

 

[ForumGhost516]

Points are well-taken, Mark. However the Dragon event is viewed, though, its inception brought a lot of attention to straight pool and induced others to follow suit in producing straight pool events, and one of the big winners has been the American pool fan.

While straight pool competition was very rare just six years ago, we now have straight pool competitions at each of the a) Valley Forge Super Billiards Expo, b) Derby City Classic, and, thanks to you, c) BCAPL extravaganza. The Maryland Straight Pool Championship has also helped revive interest in a cuesports discipline that nearly fell off the pool map.

Hence, I'll broaden my observation and thank Charlie Williams, Allen Hopkins, Greg Sullivan/Bob Jewett, Peter Burrows and you for combining to revitalize what I believe to be the most graceful of all pool disciplines in America.

As for the idea that a 14.1 HOF would compete with that of the BCA, I would suggest that the same comment could have been made of the One Pocket Hall of Fame upon its inception, but the history suggests that such a conclusion is unjustifiable in that case. Just like one pocket, 14.1 had a lot of greats that were overlooked by the BCA HOF. For example, Pete Margo is one of the best 14.1 players I've ever seen. Jim Fusco, Gene Nagy, Dick Lane and Jack Colavita are other examples of 14.1 greats that lack BCA recognition. If a 14.1 HOF were to bring positive attention to players like these, just as the One Pocket HOF brings attention to players like Rags Fitzpatrick, I would favor it. Of course, I am not in a position to determine what Dragon's motives are in establishing a 14.1 HOF.

Proud to be of service that all I have to say.

 

[Spade]

Ignoring the fact that the list of names was an embarrassment. . .

What is the purpose of another hall of fame?

I believe most of the names that were suggested are already in the BCA hall of fame.

I don't get it. Dragon has a terrible habit of calling events 'world events' - and now their own HOF!!!

Give me a break.

All of this naming nonsense makes as much sense as calling the upcoming 14.1 event a'world tournament'. It is a disgrace.

It is not a world tournament!!!

Mark griffin

wow, someone sounds a lil jealous.. Lol
im not sure if disgrace is the right word id pick. im glad someone is continuing the World 14.1, who cares if its sanctioned by WPA, which really doesnt do much for pool from what i read

 

[JAM]

wow, someone sounds a lil jealous.. Lol
im not sure if disgrace is the right word id pick. im glad someone is continuing the World 14.1, who cares if its sanctioned by WPA, which really doesnt do much for pool from what i read

Say hi to Charlie for us, Spade. :smile:

 

[JAM]

...It might get interesting. I don't like taking shots at people - but CW and Dragon hurt the integrity of the whole industry with these moves and it seems most people just don't care....

For the straight pool enthusiasts, I can empathize with SJM's stance on this issue, but I definitely agree with Mark Griffin on the hall of fame. It's ridiculous to create yet another one.

Many of the BCA Hall of Famers played only straight pool, so to have another hall of fame would discredit that hall of fame's worth.

If hall of fames keep erupting, pool will be much like boxing with so many different organizational entities and hall of fames. It would be difficult to ascertain which one to give credence to.

 

[Mark Griffin]

wow, someone sounds a lil jealous.. Lol
im not sure if disgrace is the right word id pick. im glad someone is continuing the World 14.1, who cares if its sanctioned by WPA, which really doesnt do much for pool from what i read

Spade,

This has NOTHING to do with jealousy. It is about protecting the integrity of the game. Please try to keep the topic on point and not start assuming it is a personality thing.

The rest of the world does care if it is sanctioned by the WPA. So will the other federations when they do not send their champions to compete. Please try to understand how the WPA (and its federations) are connected.

If you were to win an event that you 'thought' was the world event - only to find that your name is NOT listed anywhere, you might be a little disheartened.

There needs to be an order to World events.

Mark Griffin

Maybe you should have the world's 3 ball championship

 

[Cameron Smith]

Spade,

This has NOTHING to do with jealousy. It is about protecting the integrity of the game. Please try to keep the topic on point and not start assuming it is a personality thing.

The rest of the world does care if it is sanctioned by the WPA. So will the other federations when they do not send their champions to compete. Please try to understand how the WPA (and its federations) are connected.

If you were to win an event that you 'thought' was the world event - only to find that your name is NOT listed anywhere, you might be a little disheartened.

There needs to be an order to World events.

Mark Griffin

Maybe you should have the world's 3 ball championship

Normally I would agree. The Predator World 10 ball championship was not a world tournament and the Derby City is not the World All Around. Terms such as World Championships and "majors" get thrown around quite a bit in pool. Especially the latter, as if you count every event that people consider to be a major.....well you can come up with 13-20 majors a year.

However, the issue with this particular tournament is a different matter imo. The WPA seems to grant and pull sanctioning from this tournament all the while it runs every year. I don't claim to know everything that's been going on (I realize it has to do with money) but it's kind of ridiculous. Last year it was the World 14.1 Championship, this year it technically is the "Predator 14.1 Championship" same as in 2009. It's the same tournament, the same format with many of the same players. It's really just a name at the end of the day, philosophically speaking.

The prize money may have fallen short of the $75,000 the WPA wants but I think there should be some appreciation for the fact the this is the only "World" tournament consistently held between 2006 and 2011. You are right, officially it is not a World Championship. I guess I feel the WPA should work DP here a bit.

 

[sfleinen]

[...]
I guess I feel the WPA should work DP here a bit.

Cameron! You're advocating violence? I thought this was a gentleperson's sport?



-Sean