Warning to those buying used Gold Crowns!

[Ken_4fun]

Diamond verses GC.

Well here is my two cents and it is worth exactly what you paid for it.

I was looking for a used diamond, and found little available. The diamond tables I found used were in terrible condition and they wanted $2K + for them and then need recovered.

I was able to find a used GC for $1K and it needed to be recovered.

My Points

1.) IMO, 99% would be just as well served by a GC for a hell of lot less money than buying a diamond table.

2.) There are alot of great table mechanics out there.

3.) Just because you can find a frankenstien or two that doesnt make all used GC out there a bad deal.

Ken

 

[mike253]

Well here is my two cents and it is worth exactly what you paid for it.

I was looking for a used diamond, and found little available. The diamond tables I found used were in terrible condition and they wanted $2K + for them and then need recovered.

I was able to find a used GC for $1K and it needed to be recovered.

My Points

1.) IMO, 99% would be just as well served by a GC for a hell of lot less money than buying a diamond table.

2.) There are alot of great table mechanics out there.

3.) Just because you can find a frankenstien or two that doesnt make all used GC out there a bad deal.

Ken

Had all 6 rails that came with my table been from the same set and "un-molested", my table would have been a near steal. At the same time, had your rails or slate or frame peices (or all of the above) been mix and match, your $1k would have been better spent on losing lottery tickets because those are much lighter when you toss them in the trash

That's Glen's (and many other mechanics) issue with used Gold Crowns.. seems that so darn many of them are piles of GC parts that it's almost a given that something won't match up. If every potential GC buyer took a "check list" with them and went down the list to make sure they were getting matching slates, frames, rails, etc., then there'd be a lot fewer Frankentables floating around.

 

[Chopdoc]

I really do appreciate the advice. I am trying to educate myself. I do want a decent table for a decent cost. That does not seem too much to expect.

I wonder if people know how this is coming off though. The way it seems is that there are about two, maybe three mechanics in the entire world that we should talk to and the rest don't know what they are doing. We shouldn't dare consider what it might cost, it is a complete mystery and most of us can't afford it anyway and will simply be spectators. And if we can afford it we should expect the work to be done perhaps anywhere from a year to three years from when we contact said mechanic. The only alternative is to buy a new table and hope that the people setting it up don't screw it up too bad because they are among the ones that don't know what they are doing and we have seen horror stories about them setting up the new ones as well.

Does anybody realize it is coming off that way?

I mean...it has me questioning the idea of buying a pool table of any sort.


.

 

[Vyc]

If he does, then dinner is on me!

And we ain't eatin no crap either!

Walter, can I join this here git together tooh?

 

[perfectpocketz]

I really do appreciate the advice. I am trying to educate myself. I do want a decent table for a decent cost. That does not seem too much to expect.

I wonder if people know how this is coming off though. The way it seems is that there are about two, maybe three mechanics in the entire world that we should talk to and the rest don't know what they are doing. We shouldn't dare consider what it might cost, it is a complete mystery and most of us can't afford it anyway and will simply be spectators. And if we can afford it we should expect the work to be done perhaps anywhere from a year to three years from when we contact said mechanic. The only alternative is to buy a new table and hope that the people setting it up don't screw it up too bad because they are among the ones that don't know what they are doing and we have seen horror stories about them setting up the new ones as well.

Does anybody realize it is coming off that way?

I mean...it has me questioning the idea of buying a pool table of any sort.


.

I don't think anyone is saying there's 2 or 3 mechanic's in the world.....and that you or anyone else should wait for one of the 2 or 3.......what Glen and I are saying is if you want a great playing table.....well it starts with the right mechanic.
The GC's are great tables......and even better when set-up the right way.

The rails when done correctly make up 80% of how well a table plays.....even a table out of level with good cushions installed correctly.....will play well.

Glen's just pointing out what to look for when buying your table....or when your mechanic is installing your table.

If you don't have any idea why your table plays badly......then your going to blame the mechanic.....and if the mechanic has no idea....or simply don't care that the rails don't match....or the slates don't match.....trust me they can still get the table together.....and when they're done and you start playing.....then wonder why your table don't play like the one down the street.....well that's why.

We're just telling you to beware of what your going to purchase...and somethings to look for when checking the table you want buy.

There's a lot of very good table mechanic's out here.....just a couple of us that do rails completely.
I'll say it again...the rails make a great table....you may want to find the right one to do the rail work....cushion work.....and cloth work.........that is if you know the difference between and orange and the 5 ball.......if not call the first guy you find...and you'll be happy with his work...LMAO

Mark Gregory

 

[realkingcobra]

Well here is my two cents and it is worth exactly what you paid for it.

I was looking for a used diamond, and found little available. The diamond tables I found used were in terrible condition and they wanted $2K + for them and then need recovered.

I was able to find a used GC for $1K and it needed to be recovered.

My Points

1.) IMO, 99% would be just as well served by a GC for a hell of lot less money than buying a diamond table.

2.) There are alot of great table mechanics out there.

3.) Just because you can find a frankenstien or two that doesnt make all used GC out there a bad deal.

Ken

It's clear you haven't spent much time playing pool in Texas, Louisiana, or Mississippi...LOL

 

[realkingcobra]

1.) IMO, 99% would be just as well served by a GC for a hell of lot less money than buying a diamond table.

2.) There are alot of great table mechanics out there.

3.) Just because you can find a frankenstien or two that doesnt make all used GC out there a bad deal.

Ken

Ken, now that I think about it...I was just wondering how many GC's have you worked on in the last say....3 years?...because more than 90% of the GC's I work on have been screwed up in one way or another by someone in the past before I got to it. So, it should be noted that you are of your opinion, while I make my claim from personal experience.

It's also of my experience that there's a lot of INSTALLERS working on pool tables, and very FEW table mechanics out there...and I travel the WHOLE country, even clear up to Alaska, so I get to see first hand what kind of work is done on pool tables everywhere in this country...so, in my opinion...that would make me an expert on what kind of work is being done on pool tables throughout this country...wouldn't you?

 

[one stroke]

Did Glen have a bad word to say about he GC3, or did he just tell folks to be on the look out for ones without the correct parts? Thus, trying to save some poor saps the added expense of making it right again...

so, when folks like Glen are trying to help out the pool community, a thank you would suffice next time

Ya I will remember that


1

 

[DecentShot]

Glen doesn't say Diamond is the best because he installs them, he installs them because they are the best. If you have played on multiple gold crowns, which most people on this forum have. Then you know that one gold crown table plays differently from the next. He is describing some of the underlying reasons for this. Glen's statements have validity and insight.

 

[Catalyze]

It is funny the way people will interpret the written word. When there is no voice inflection or facial movement involved, opinions seem to vary wildly. My "take" on Glen's first post:
1. As a buyer of a pool table, realize that they can be assembled for sale from various sources and still have "factory" parts
2. Model changes for some tables, in this case Gold Crowns, may mean that parts that appear alike may not produce a playable end product
3. Human nature for a percentage of sellers is that they will sell you what you "want" and tell you what you "want" to hear without regard to the truth about a table
4. Being a table mechanic is not a profession that most people who either play pool or sell tables ( privately) are proficient in. Due to this, getting a "mechanic" to check a table beforehand could save hard feelings, money, and get a buyer a table they will enjoy.
5. Diamond tables have some design feature that enables the rails to stay matched easier than a Gold Crown.

Other than the above, I didn't detect anything other than a skilled craftsman trying to solve a dilemma caused by a Gold Crown having mismatched parts AND wanting to make future buyers of this type of table aware of what can happen without diligence.

As to Glen himself, I have yet to really read anything that he has posted that wasn't intended to educate or help me in my pursuit of happiness in my pool room.
Craig

 

[LuckedOut]

I've considered upgrading my antique Regina to a GC or Anniversary the past 6 months or so, but a Diamond is really what I want.

Who in the Oregon area is the installer for Diamond? If they are hard to come by in PNW, who is the best table mechanic in the PDX, Willamette valley who can dial an Anniversary out to play tops?

The Anniversary is restored, but overall rail/sub-rail condition I don't know about.

Anyone?

 

[realkingcobra]

I've considered upgrading my antique Regina to a GC or Anniversary the past 6 months or so, but a Diamond is really what I want.

Who in the Oregon area is the installer for Diamond? If they are hard to come by in PNW, who is the best table mechanic in the PDX, Willamette valley who can dial an Anniversary out to play tops?

The Anniversary is restored, but overall rail/sub-rail condition I don't know about.

Anyone?

Gordon Graham is in Washington St, he's a Diamond mechanic and installer and can handle installing a Diamond for you.

Glen

 

[realkingcobra]

I've considered upgrading my antique Regina to a GC or Anniversary the past 6 months or so, but a Diamond is really what I want.

Who in the Oregon area is the installer for Diamond? If they are hard to come by in PNW, who is the best table mechanic in the PDX, Willamette valley who can dial an Anniversary out to play tops?

The Anniversary is restored, but overall rail/sub-rail condition I don't know about.

Anyone?

PS. unless you're getting the Anniversary real cheap, having the sub-rails rebuilt plus the cost of the table is going to run you way more than a new Diamond 9ft ProAm

 

[Ken_4fun]

Ken, now that I think about it...I was just wondering how many GC's have you worked on in the last say....3 years?...because more than 90% of the GC's I work on have been screwed up in one way or another by someone in the past before I got to it. So, it should be noted that you are of your opinion, while I make my claim from personal experience.

It's also of my experience that there's a lot of INSTALLERS working on pool tables, and very FEW table mechanics out there...and I travel the WHOLE country, even clear up to Alaska, so I get to see first hand what kind of work is done on pool tables everywhere in this country...so, in my opinion...that would make me an expert on what kind of work is being done on pool tables throughout this country...wouldn't you?

Glen -

You have good points.

Im not calling you a liar, but I find it hard to believe that 90% of GC in the world are "screwed up". Sure they may have issues, but then are you working on 50 year old diamond tables? No you are not. So to compare a 50 year old GC to a 10 year old diamond table is well...not exactly apples to apples.

I TRIED TO FIND A DIAMOND TABLE, AS MOST TOURNAMENTS ARE PLAYED ON THEM, I PREFER PLAYING ON THEM (SHOOTING OVER A POCKET IS MUCH BETTER ON A DIAMOND), BUT THE BEST I COULD FIND WAS $2K TABLE NEAR LOUISVILLE THAT WAS ROUGH, VERY ROUGH.

I stand by my statement if you want a good value, you can find GC tables for $800-$1200, that would make a great home table for alot of folks. Are they perfect, probably not, if you want perfect go buy a new GC or Diamond.

I think you do a good service of giving people a heads up on issues to look for, but saying 90% of GC out there are so screwed up and you or maybe 2-3 others are the only people that could make them playable is a stretch.

Again, I thank you for what I think the cautionary advice.

Best of rolls my friend,

Ken

PS. Honestly I have played in Louisana, but not in Texas or Mississippi. I am currently in Memphis and the local pool room HIGH POCKETS all GC tables. The Rack on the other side of town is Diamond tables. In Paducah KY, Sidepockets (my old poolhall) is all GC and the tables were recovered twice a year with Simonis 860. Buddy Hall played there daily on those "screwed up" GC.

 

[jalapus logan]

I guess that I'm in the minority because I wanted to spend more money for my table than my cue. I can't see spending $3000 on a cue, but sure thing for a table. When I went table shopping, my priority was to buy the best playing table that would last the longest, period. To that end, I could not find a table better than the diamond pro with the dymondwood rails. I would have bought a new one but I found a great used one for 3100. Best investment I've ever made. Been enjoying it since 2005. I have yet to see a better table on the market. I'm a dedicated pool nut and I would sell the diamond in a heartbeat if a table came along that was better. Trouble is that I've not found one...

 

[Ken_4fun]

I guess that I'm in the minority because I wanted to spend more money for my table than my cue. I can't see spending $3000 on a cue, but sure thing for a table. When I went table shopping, my priority was to buy the best playing table that would last the longest, period. To that end, I could not find a table better than the diamond pro with the dymondwood rails. I would have bought a new one but I found a great used one for 3100. Best investment I've ever made. Been enjoying it since 2005. I have yet to see a better table on the market. I'm a dedicated pool nut and I would sell the diamond in a heartbeat if a table came along that was better. Trouble is that I've not found one...

I have spent 3 times that for a cue.... and didnt want to spend $2K for a table....I agree thats strange (me)

LOL

Ken

 

[JC]

I've considered upgrading my antique Regina to a GC or Anniversary the past 6 months or so, but a Diamond is really what I want.

Who in the Oregon area is the installer for Diamond? If they are hard to come by in PNW, who is the best table mechanic in the PDX, Willamette valley who can dial an Anniversary out to play tops?

The Anniversary is restored, but overall rail/sub-rail condition I don't know about.

Anyone?

There's a guy up in Seattle that had a bunch of diamond pro tables with very low play he got from the Reno open (I believe) a few years ago. He was selling them with an 8 foot diamond light for $3500. If I was looking for a table I would have jumped on one. He may have some left and if he's down to his last one ot two the price might have become flexible some 360-649-2999

 

[realkingcobra]

BUT THE BEST I COULD FIND WAS $2K TABLE NEAR LOUISVILLE THAT WAS ROUGH, VERY ROUGH.

I'm not a big fan of the Diamond Professionals with a real wood finish, as they do show a lot of wear'n tear, especially in a commercial environment, as they do not hold their finish very well under them circumstances, but...if they had the Dymondwood finished rails they'd still look great 50 years down the road, and that's where they'd pass up any GC in looks in any commercial environment...especially the Diamond ProAm's. Formica covered rails will never be in the same league as the Dymondwood rails in any test of time and for what it's worth, I'm not saying all GC's are a bad buy used, as there are some really great deals out there, it's just that from my experience there's a lot being sold by heartless people that are only interested in making a buck, and that's where I come in...to make people aware of what they're getting into BEFORE they pull the trigger and make that purchase

Glen

 

[perfectpocketz]

I don't think 90% of the GC tables are screwed up......There's most definitely a large majority with some miss match parts.......but most of them can be moved and installed by a lot of installers......and play just fine for the home owners.

Now....if and only if the guy want the table to play as well as one can play....that's when guy's like Glen and those fews others come in.

The set-up for some...just isn't what some people want...they want a great set-up and great playing rails...and there's a big difference....also they're willing to pay good money for that kind of service.

The rails are most important for a great playing table...and when Glen is done with the rails and set-up.....or if I do the rails and ship them back....anyone can tell a major difference in the play of that table.

But most people are just as happy with a local installer setting up their table....and that works as well....not everyone needs a fine tooth comb on ever part of their table.
That's just how some guy's are such as Glen and I....we want the tables not only to play great when we're done.....but to look just as great as it plays.

Not saying no one else take's pride in their work.....I'm saying guy's like Glen and I tend to go over board on all tables.......Just the kind of cloth we were cut from.

Myself...I try to make the tables play as though it were going in my house....Glen's the same way.

I've always said that if you want a great playing table....it surely helps if that person setting-up the table plays pool at least very good.....as with rails...after playing the game for 40 years and playing just about everyone out there....I know how rails should play on tables.....I just don't go by numbers.....I know what to expect from the cushions when I'm done.....and players gambling on tables I've redone know the table plays the way they expect a table to play.......playing the game really helped me understand the rails a lot better then most.

Mark Gregory

 

[Ken_4fun]

I'm not a big fan of the Diamond Professionals with a real wood finish, as they do show a lot of wear'n tear, especially in a commercial environment, as they do not hold their finish very well under them circumstances, but...if they had the Dymondwood finished rails they'd still look great 50 years down the road, and that's where they'd pass up any GC in looks in any commercial environment...especially the Diamond ProAm's. Formica covered rails will never be in the same league as the Dymondwood rails in any test of time and for what it's worth, I'm not saying all GC's are a bad buy used, as there are some really great deals out there, it's just that from my experience there's a lot being sold by heartless people that are only interested in making a buck, and that's where I come in...to make people aware of what they're getting into BEFORE they pull the trigger and make that purchase

Glen

GLEN -

I LOVE THE REAL WOOD FINISH, and I hate the Dymondwood (whatever the hell that is).

The "Bank Shot" in Louisville is full of them and they look awesome IMO.

Ken