Was I wrong for not telling my opponent he's shooting the wrong ball?!?!

Personally, I think you should always tell your opponent they are shooting the wrong ball, or shooting in the wrong hole (in One Pocket)...

I feel that if I need for my opponent to shoot the wrong ball and commit a foul just so i can win, then I should probably play better. Its sort of like silently wishing for your opponent to miscue during a routine run-out so you can win. Its lame. I understand that everyone wants to win, and so do I, but there are other ways of going about it.

Others argue its not your job to tell them what to shoot, etc... but on the premise of being a decent individual and not betting my last dollar on a game, I think its the right thing to do. (if you are betting your last dollar, time for a life re-evaluation)
 
If it's for any fun type of play and there's nothing of consequence on the line I tell them, especially if they're beginners. We were all beginners at one point and made these mistakes too. I really appreciated the kind people that pointed silly stuff like this out to me. Especially when I did something against an odd league rule which I wasn't aware of.

If there's something on the line, I admit I do think about it more but I usually tell them as a sportsmanship thing but I don't expect that of other people I play. I did tell a guy playing against me in a tourney that he was using the 9 as the cue ball but he shot using the 9 anyway and I called the foul. I think he thought me trying to help was actually an attempt at sharking him. Oh well! I tried to help!

On the other hand, you aren't expected to tell people when playing competitive chess that you are TWO MOVES from checkmate so don't make that move you're planning on, why is it expected that you have to play your opponents game for them in Billiards. Are you supposed to tell your opponent when you see them make a bad choice in how they are lining up on a shot? or bad safety choice? or incorrect setup for position? or if they don't see the pattern you see? I think not, unless it's friendly or during instruction. Hard to tell where to draw the sportsmanship line isn't it. Of course you can offer advice after to be nice but why not play the game YOU have against the game THEY brought to YOU. Tennis players don't yell out hey switch to your backhand there's no way you can reach that shot from your forehand!... Golfers don't yell out which club for their opponents to use! Pitchers don't say here comes a curve ball to the batter!

I can't remember who was playing but I watched an old TV match on ESPN where a pro shot the wrong ball in 9ball with a referee at the table and no one said anything to the pro. There wasn't any expectation that anyone should tell that person what to do. It was a gaff everyone saw coming except the person stroking the ball. It was just what it was, a mistake on the part of one player and they moved on in the match without any player discussion. Not sure if that's how it should be but the player watching the gaff made a decision and no one faulted that pro for it.
 
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pooln8r said:
On the other hand, you aren't expected to tell people when playing competitive chess that you are a move from checkmate so don't make that move you're planning on, why is it expected that you have to play your opponents game for them in Billiards.
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Actually...that would be the check...and then checkmate in chess...so...technically yeah...you DO warn them you are a move away from checkmate...


just a fyi
 
That just plain crazy to try to hold someone else responsible for your mistakes! They should be paying attention. In a friendly game,or teaching someone,maybe,but in any other situation,you should be watching and you're the only one responsible! I had to stop playing a Co-Worker because he felt that playing safe was "Dirty Pool"!! I unscrewed my stick,immediately!!
 
RShellhouse said:
Actually...that would be the check...and then checkmate in chess...so...technically yeah...you DO warn them you are a move away from checkmate...


just a fyi
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LOL...Sorry, meant two moves before checkmate...thanks for catching that!
 
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lol Rick

RShellhouse said:
Actually...that would be the check...and then checkmate in chess...so...technically yeah...you DO warn them you are a move away from checkmate...


just a fyi
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LOL Rick I didn't catch that one :-):thumbup:

This is great i'm finding out from all the posters who i'm going to
tell if they are going to foul (All the sportsman).
And who i'm not telling (the non-sportman).
 
Fearless....it's not your job to tell him the balls to shoot. Next time someone tries to knock you off stride with that guilt thing, do what I do. Just look him in the eye, laugh and take your shot. Sit back and watch him derail. As I tell my kids--in the "Book of Life", Chapter 1, Line 1: "Life is difficult". Line 2 "It is not fair."
 
fearless said:
I really just need to vent about this. Tonight after league, i'm backing my friend against another league player i'm acquaintances with. My friend is giving him the 6 out in a race to 11 for $100 in 9 ball. I just wanted to see some good playing and apparently the spot was too heavy for my friend and ended up losing 7-11. So, I ask to adjust and maybe try the 7 out or something and the guy doesn't want to and says he'll play me with the 8 in a race to 9 for $100. I agree and am a little upset at this point because I just wanted to see a fair game with good playing but he won't adjust anything. So we start play and I take a 4-1 lead. Then he starts creeping up and I end up getting to the hill first at 8-5. I break, make 3 ball, and have a shot on the one. I make it then miss the 2 ball and he proceeds to his turn.

As he is shooting he makes 2 and continues to shoot the 5 ball and does not see the 4. After he hits the five, I tell him foul, and he goes, "Why?!". I tell him the 4 is on the table and then he starts saying that i'm a piece of shit because I didn't tell him. That if really didn't care about the money I would have told him, and just won't stop. Needless to say, this just pissed me off and I let it get to me and I can't shoot worth a dime anymore. We end up going hill hill and we end up quitting. In my 9 years of playing pool, I have never ever told someone they're shooting the wrong ball unless it's practice or if they are a beginner in a tournament. I would just like people's take on this. I rarely post about things, but this just irked me so bad. Thanks all for listening.
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In a money game, I think that a person can only blame themselves for the mistakes that they make. I t is certainly his responsibility to pay enough attention to the game to shoot the correct ball, and shouldn't put that responsibility on you. With that said, I think I would have told him he was shooting the wrong ball.
 
Yeah, happened to me too. I bet on the Packers in the playoffs, and the guy who took my money NEVER once said not to bet on them.... friggin jerk if you ask me ;)
 
Wybrook said:
Personally, I think you should always tell your opponent they are shooting the wrong ball, or shooting in the wrong hole (in One Pocket)...

I feel that if I need for my opponent to shoot the wrong ball and commit a foul just so i can win, then I should probably play better. Its sort of like silently wishing for your opponent to miscue during a routine run-out so you can win. Its lame. I understand that everyone wants to win, and so do I, but there are other ways of going about it.

Others argue its not your job to tell them what to shoot, etc... but on the premise of being a decent individual and not betting my last dollar on a game, I think its the right thing to do. (if you are betting your last dollar, time for a life re-evaluation)
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i agree i would never let my opponent shoot the wrong shot or wrong hole i am an honest person an if i wanna make it too the pro,s someday i have too Act like 1 off an on the table
 
IMO, the only business that anybody has in regards to interfering with another person's turn at the table is to confirm non-obvious shots in call pocket games and to ask for a referee in any sort of controversial shot.

A tournament team I played on a while ago actually lost a loser's side final by 1 ball in 8s when the team captain accidentally shot at what he thought was one of his balls, but was actually the other player's last... nobody said a word, and it was absolutely horrifying for our team to watch him actually spend about 30 seconds aiming and stroking at the wrong ball. We're all good friends with the players from the other team, but shooting the incorrect ball is not anybody's fault (or responsibility) but the shooter's. I'm sure we've all done it a few times in our careers, so it's not really a huge deal imho
 
I don't think honesty really has anything to do with it. I am also an honest person but I will let someone make their own mistakes. It's not my job to hold their hand. If they are still at the level where they need to be reminded about which ball to shoot in 9-ball, they probably shouldn't be playing for money in the first place. Next time they will think a little harder about what ball they are on.
 
Wybrook said:
Personally, I think you should always tell your opponent they are shooting the wrong ball, or shooting in the wrong hole (in One Pocket)...

I feel that if I need for my opponent to shoot the wrong ball and commit a foul just so i can win, then I should probably play better. Its sort of like silently wishing for your opponent to miscue during a routine run-out so you can win. Its lame. I understand that everyone wants to win, and so do I, but there are other ways of going about it.

Others argue its not your job to tell them what to shoot, etc... but on the premise of being a decent individual and not betting my last dollar on a game, I think its the right thing to do. (if you are betting your last dollar, time for a life re-evaluation)
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I can respect what you're saying, Wybrook, and to a certain point I agree.
But I don't think Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland, or any other pro that I might end up playing is going to tell me that I'm shooting the wrong ball until AFTER I shoot it. Especially if I'm on the hill.

Again, I respect where you and others are coming from, but if you're going to play serious, you better have your head in the game...
 
robleyf7 said:
i will tell him hes shooting the wrong ball no matter what thats just me

2 wrongs don.t make a right if u was mad at him for not adjusting thats his right too do so u got mad an dident tell him he was shoooting the wrong ball for not Adjusting the spot so u got back at him an dident tell him about the wrong ball he was shooting no matter what i woulda told him he was shooting the wrong ball
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Holy long sentence batman! :p
 
Mickey Qualls said:
I can respect what you're saying, Wybrook, and to a certain point I agree.
But I don't think Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland, or any other pro that I might end up playing is going to tell me that I'm shooting the wrong ball until AFTER I shoot it. Especially if I'm on the hill.

Again, I respect where you and others are coming from, but if you're going to play serious, you better have your head in the game...
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you might be right specialy if the sponsor would be pissed that they would say something lol
 
I would first like to thank everyone for their opinions. Just to give some insight, this guy use to give me weight when I just started playing 9 years ago. He's the type of player who's always been a loud mouth and get heated on his own when he starts shooting bad. Whether intentional or not, when he starts shooting bad he always starts yelling out stupid thins like, "I'm the worst player in the world, but am wiliing to bet hundreds", "I'm a ****ing piece of shit who can't play", will start shooting balls really hard and knock them off the table. I've always liked him off the table. He's a real gentleman when not gambling. What really got me upset was because I've never cheated any one in any game. If I committed a foul that they did not see, I would tell them. Having been called a piece of shit for a mistake I didn't make was what upset me and because I thought we were friends. I have been one of the very few guys to play him because I just like the action and his shit talking typically doesn't bother me. Money partly does matter, but to me it's not the whole thing. Was I mad he didn't want to adjust with my friend, YES. Not becuase of the money, but just because the weight was too heavy. I like watching good pool and the match they played was terrible. My friend is a pro, and couldn't handle the spot and I just wanted to keep it fair. Did, I not tell him about the ball to get even because of that, NO. I've shot the wrong ball many times and has anyone ever told me, NO. I just wanted to get people's opinions and appreciate it. Thank you all for listening.
 
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I keep my mouth shut when my opponent is about to do something stupid....always.

If I speak up on the "wrong ball" issue, should I next start telling him when he's shooting a low percentage position play, or if he might scratch two rails if he plays it like it looks like he is going to...

"Hey, buddy, you're addressing the left side of the cue ball, and you don't need any English for this shot."

"Hey, why don't you just go the natural three rail route instead of using that power draw?"

"Looks like whitey might scratch if you play it like that, better hit the full part of the pocket."

:rolleyes:
 
shoulda let him learn

jeeze, tell him to learn how to count next time!

even if it's for fun, or practice, you shouldn't tell him. you're not doing anybody any favors by correcting them.
 
This actually happened to me in a tournament, only I was the one shooting at the wrong ball. :embarrassed2:

Look, I believe in sportsmanship as much as the next guy. That is why in this situation you are correct to not say anything just like my opponent was correct to not say anything when I did it. And I'll tell you why.

As the guy was getting down on the shot you were probably thinking, "What is he doing, is he really going to shoot at the wrong ball?" You really don't know what he is doing until he actually pulls the trigger. Perhaps he was just lining up the shot he was planning to have on the five after he was to make the 4 ball. Maybe he didn't like his chances with the layout and was planning to intentionally foul and tie up a couple of balls instead. Who really knows? You can't read his mind.

The point is, if you jump up to warn him while he is down on the shot, you are potentially guilty of sharking. That's why it is correct to keep your mouth shut.
 
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DogsPlayingPool said:
This actually happened to me in a tournament, only I was the one shooting at the wrong ball. :embarrassed2:

Look, I believe in sportsmanship as much as the next guy. But in this situation you are correct to not say anything just like my opponent was correct to not say anything when I did it. And I'll tell you why.

As the guy was getting down on the shot you were probably thinking, "What is he doing, is he really going to shoot at the wrong ball?" You really don't know what he is doing until he actually pulls the trigger. Perhaps he was just lining up the shot he was planning to have on the five after he was to make the 4 ball. Maybe he didn't like his chances with the layout and was planning to intentionally foul and tie up a couple of balls instead. Who really knows? You can't read his mind.

The point is, if you jump up to warn him while he is down on the shot, you are potentially guilty of sharking. That's why it is correct to keep your mouth shut.
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Great point. I see that all the time in the APA. When one of the 9s was seeing how much clearance he needed to pocket the next ball, the 3 that was scoring on the other team was all, "Hey! You're shooting the wrong ball!" Innocent mistake, but it totally messed up his rythym & focus. He explained that he wasn't shooting it, but lining up, and asked the 3 to please keep it to himself next time.
 
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