Was this a foul at TS or a SHARK

pfd studios

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Racking

Having the REF rack is not such a good idea . . . I personally watched how the REFs were racking in Taiwan for the All ASIA Tournament, several years ago, and it was clear that "they" were racking in a way that did NOT favor the American Pro players. I would hate to see OUR Refs subject themselves to any criticism for something that could be handled by better player sportsmanship.

pfd
 

BobTfromIL

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The racking was getting ridiculous, but Danny only says that because he thinks there's no skill involved in breaking.

Yes, that's his position and I can't totally agree with it. Seems like a no win situation but
I would think most pro's don't need a "perfect" rack in order to get out.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Something can be both a foul and a shark move. And there should be a third option - it was simply frustration. Before we blame Jayson, it could be that MD was purposely giving him bad racks and Jayson had enough.
 

Sloppy Pockets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I looked away for a minute and thought Shaw broke them that way. That would have been the ultimate slug rack. ;)

Seriously, that should have been a foul. Should have been a foul when he took an hour to rack them for Mike as well. I told my wife I hope Mike just walks past the rack when he's finally done and just smashes the freaking thing.

Shaw acted like a spoiled little girl in that match, and I lost much respect for him. MIke was a real gentleman though it all IMO. He was obviously shook up a bit by all Shaw's drama, but he played well anyway.

Jayson must have stopped at the bakery concession in the lobby and bought a baker's dozen of sweet rolls, while Mike had nothing but bad luck in that department. Scratching after that great shot in the last rack was a heartbreaker. If not for that, Shaw would have crept home with his tail between his legs
 

THE MONTREALER

THE MONTREALER
Silver Member
Something can be both a foul and a shark move. And there should be a third option - it was simply frustration. Before we blame Jayson, it could be that MD was purposely giving him bad racks and Jayson had enough.

It should be minimum two racks if you do not like the rack you
lose the game. That way there would be less racking of the balls
what do you think
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
when the break and the racking of the balls becomes the determining factor in the game something big needs changing.

either a neutral rack done in one move. or flip for the break after each time the balls are racked.

or find a game other than nine ball as it has become totally boring to watch with its rules and stupid catering to special players.
 

bral

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well, at least we didn't see a magnifying glass make an appearance. Then again, it might've been quicker.

picture.php
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO, the rack issue is 100% the director's fault. He needs to revise his rules for the modern professional pool racking landscape. This applies to Zuglan and every other promoter.

Many options exist. If it were up to me:

Wooden rack, breaker racks, opponent not allowed to inspect rack, 9 in 2 pockets does not count, breaker has 30 sec from the time the 9 drops till he breaks. If he doesn't break within that time, opponent breaks.
 

wixo3

welp
Silver Member
The racking was brutal. I never really cared all that much about all the rack controversy until this;I was trying to get my wife to watch the stream with me and show some interest in pool.

Watching Shaw rack for 5 solid minutes and all the other BS turned her off of the stream immediately. Only people that are already pool enthusiasts would endure that crap and continue watching and supporting. I'm sure ESPN is lining up to air 30 minutes of racking.

b

Agreed, I love seeing these 2 play and it was a pretty close game but all the racking nonsense almost had me turn it off. If it wasnt the final and I had something else to do, i would have stoped watching. I think they definitely need a racker next time to save time and controversy with players pattern racking and studying the rack.
 

pocket

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO, the rack issue is 100% the director's fault. He needs to revise his rules for the modern professional pool racking landscape. This applies to Zuglan and every other promoter.

Many options exist. If it were up to me:

Wooden rack, breaker racks, opponent not allowed to inspect rack, 9 in 2 pockets does not count, breaker has 30 sec from the time the 9 drops till he breaks. If he doesn't break within that time, opponent breaks.

I like where you are headed with this, but 30 seconds is silly. it takes longer than that to walk over, dry your hands, change to your break cue, chalk the cue and set the cue ball for your break.
 

Cuebuddy

Mini cues
Silver Member
Maybe the tourneys should have mandatory slug racking. Companies could even start making templates that will automatically provide gaps between the balls.;)
 

SmoothStroke

Swim for the win.
Silver Member
I looked away for a minute and thought Shaw broke them that way. That would have been the ultimate slug rack. ;)

Seriously, that should have been a foul. Should have been a foul when he took an hour to rack them for Mike as well. I told my wife I hope Mike just walks past the rack when he's finally done and just smashes the freaking thing.

Shaw acted like a spoiled little girl in that match, and I lost much respect for him. MIke was a real gentleman though it all IMO. He was obviously shook up a bit by all Shaw's drama, but he played well anyway.

Jayson must have stopped at the bakery concession in the lobby and bought a baker's dozen of sweet rolls, while Mike had nothing but bad luck in that department. Scratching after that great shot in the last rack was a heartbreaker. If not for that, Shaw would have crept home with his tail between his legs


I agree 100% Sir, I will just add zero tolerance is implemented.

1) You are disqualified from the event effective immediately. I don't care if it's the first round or finals.

2) If you act unsportsmanlike or disrespectful in the next event you are banned for life. Go back to Scotland and play the Bagpipes, keep the Meucci.

3) Since there are not any rules, regulations, enforcement, or consequences to pay, or rules that anyone actually cares about, Mike should have made him eat the cue ball and swallow his teeth, then tell him he has to run out around the Chiclets on the table.

The rules apply to everyone.
Expect what you tolerate, off with their heads, disrespectful bastids.
That wasn’t too harsh was it?
 

Fuji-whopper

Fargo: 457...play some?
Silver Member
Maybe the tourneys should have mandatory slug racking. Companies could even start making templates that will automatically provide gaps between the balls.;)

It's sometimes easier to make a ball when there are gaps and the rack isn't straight, I think receiving a "perfect" rack is somewhat of an unreasonable expectation for the most part so it's in your best interest to learn how to make a ball with a rack that has gaps in it.


Neil
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Something can be both a foul and a shark move. And there should be a third option - it was simply frustration. Before we blame Jayson, it could be that MD was purposely giving him bad racks and Jayson had enough.

Before we start slamming Jayson or Mike, those of us that were right there table side, could obviously see what was going on.

Jayson was well in his rights to be frustrated. Watch the racking times for the first ten racks, there was a reason why MD took so long. Everyone could see the back balls moving. Jayson was complaining about the spaces which were of ridiculous size if one were to just rack the balls normally.

MD even said "I'll bet you don't make a wing ball".

And the kicker is I like both these players. They both have outstanding offensive games and when they got going it was exciting. MD has a very good demeanor with the fans and kids attending the tournament and I believe he is an asset to American pool. But on this evening, the racking was not very professional. Remember, MD lost his first match to Salvas and had to play one-loss bracket times (which is pretty much non-stop) for Friday, Saturday, and all of Sunday to get to the finals. He was fatigued and it was apparent. He's a great player and was going for the jugular. I'm not making excuses, I'm just explaining my observation.

at the end of the match Zuglan made an announcement that there will be some changes before the next Turning Stone Classic, maybe different racking rules or some players will not be back.

So we were left to take that for what it's worth.

Some players use racking by attrition - give your opponent bad racks enough times, he will eventually stop asking for re-racks and just give-in and break it, or not give-in and risk being called "cry baby" by audience members. Back in January, I saw Shane shove the rack and the balls across the table after a racking dispute. Everyone gets frustrated and it's easy to just throw your hands up and give-in. Jayson didn't.

I once asked Darren Appleton why he doesn't regularly play at the Turning Stone Classic, and he quickly responded he grew tired of the "Rack Merchants" that play there.

That was a good way to put it. Rack merchants.

On this evening, MD was selling and Jayson wasn't buying.

But that is old school 9-ball, with classic rules like winner breaks, and opponent racks. To tell you the truth, the intensity and atmosphere was ramped up and I had a good time. Maybe you just had to be there.

I shook both players hands and congratulated both on a great tournament.
 

Mikey Town

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With the Magic Rack and Accu-Rack, we have the tools to ensure a perfect rack (and a level playing field) every single time.

I'll never understand why every big tournament doesn't use those. God forbid something be done to eliminate unnecessary nonsense and get to the action more quickly.
 

fjk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have the answer: a mandatory push after the break. If you make the 9, it gets spotted. Nobody would care less about the rack then. Problem solved.

Personally, I would love to see more strategy and safety play. Today's players all play so strong, anyone can string racks together and upset the better player.
 

cuedoctor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can you imagine how this thread would be going if it was Earl Strickland instead of Shaw!!!! Now I know Earls got alot of issues and he does alot more than this but I have watched Earl play alot of matches and don't think he's ever been a rack inspector like some of these guys...maybe he needs to though. I have watched MD play and have come to admire his game the last few years and Shaw is a beast right now but he should have been called for a foul and MD should have been breaking IMO.
 

Runner

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Rack 'em.. or maybe not...

Raking the balls with your cue after the balls are racked should be conceding a game. Not cool... Either have an official rack for both, (which has its problems, see Earl walking out of a match), or play RACK YOUR OWN.
 
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