Washing the CB

[CreeDo]

My thinking is - there's absolutely no reason for the playing conditions to change
over the course of the run, when it's very easy to create consistent conditions for the shooter.

It's not about wanting something "extra", it's about wanting conditions to be
normal and predictable throughout the entire run.

If someone introduced a new brand of rails and their weirdly shortened up
quite a bit after just a few hours, would you play on those?

If someone invented a cue ball that got gradually heavier, would you want to use it?

It isn't just about skids, it changes how the CB comes off a rail,
how much your sidespin throws the ob, it may even affect position a little.
So the fact that someone doesn't clean the ball and still runs 100, doesn't mean
it didn't come into play.

As for the complaint that it bogs things down for the spectator, or slows down tournaments,
we're talking 10 seconds per rack. Anyone who gets fidgety over that length of time
probably shouldn't be sweating 14.1 in the first place.

Incidentally, I don't think there's any danger of a slipper slope where everyone demands
a cleaning for every game at the DCC. But you DO see some players clean their cue ball, informally,
for every single break in a typical 9 or 10 ball set. They rub it on the head rail a bit before placing it.
So far this hasn't led to any kind of crisis for the TD.

 

[Nine Miler]

I was just thinking of all the 1pocket I've played and watched -- guys go for hours, days without cleaning the CB.

Lou Figueroa

I play mostly one pocket as well. You have a microfiber in your case right? I do, and use it to wipe my cue once in a while. I also use it to wipe my hands. Sometimes before the break, I will spin the cue ball against the rail, or give it a quick trip into the microfiber towel. Is it really that unusual?

 

[GideonF]

I was just thinking of all the 1pocket I've played and watched -- guys go for hours, days without cleaning the CB.



Lou Figueroa

At the DCC this year, I noticed many players cleaning the cue ball every time they had ball in hand and before each break. I'm pretty sure Alex did this each time (spinning the cue ball on the cloth to clean it) in all of the 9 ball matches I saw, but I don't remember if I saw him do it during the 1P.



Now, if you are talking about cleaning a ball by removing it from play (as they do all the time in snooker), that is a different story, particularly given that (almost) no one in North America seems have the little ball markers the snooker referees have, so replacing the ball exactly where it was can be an issue, particularly where precise precision play is at issue.



I should add that I understand why players want the CB cleaned. A skid can cost them the match at their level, whereas it is extremely unlikely to cost me a match. The fear of a skid can also hurt them. I overheard Archer speaking at the DCC (I think about the 14.1) that a ball skidded on him earlier, and then later he was worried about a skid and it cost him (I was walking by, so I'm not sure if he shot a different shot than he would have, or hit it harder, or what).



So, to my mind, reasonable steps should be taken to eliminate actual skids and ease the player's mind about possible skids.



Gideon

 

[Drop The Rock]

I'm also thinking about what happens when every Tom, Dick, and Harry starts asking for the CB to be cleaned every few shots at league, money games, APA tournaments, CSI events, US Opens, state level events, and so on and so forth. Maybe all 500 guys in the DCC Bank Pool event can start doing that too.

I think it's excessive and would hate to see it become the new normal. That is all.

Lou Figueroa

So what about in between every game? Whats wrong with that? I understand the issue with straight pool being that there is no point in the run when the cueball is picked up off the table which means a ref is required, but its not unreasonable for a cueball to be cleaned every game in 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball, or One Pocket.

 

[pdcue]

Any true anglophile knows how to spell Downton Abbey. Agree on everything else. :thumbup:

Is JAM aware you have usurped her position of Captain of the Spelling Police?

Dale(who is not immune to typos)

 

[Island Drive]

So... Dennis posts this 225 ball run by Lee Van Corteza from the 2016 DCC 14.1 Challenge. A tremendous feat and thanks to Dennis and crew for their efforts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVo0AI-PvNc

But, if you watch the vid you'll see that before too long, LVC starts asking for the CB to be cleaned every rack. (Maybe even more than that.) A bit unusual.

So, what do you think? Right, wrong, excessive, OK, no biggie? (What happens when every player at every 14.1, 9ball, 10ball, 8ball, 1pocket event start asking for the CB to be cleaned every other shot, even without a huge, dyed, curly Miley Cyrus hair on the ball or a big honkin' smooch of Kamui on it?)

Personally, I think that unless there's the aforementioned Hanna Montana hair or a blood clot on the ball you should proceed. It's pool.

Lou Figueroa
compare/contrast
200 words due by Friday

When Earl ran the ten pack at CJ's in 4-96....he individually wiped off EVERY object ball before he broke. The newer type of GC pocket lining that was being used on that table, was coming off like an eraser on too the pocketed balls also, Earl wasn't making any balls in the two lower pockets.

 

[claymont]

I did a "subjective" analysis of the time spent cleaning the cue ball. The ball was cleaned, I believe, eight times when he was shooting, the rest was when he was racking. I was on the liberal side when deciding the length of time cleaning added to the total time he would've spent playing. A lot of the cleanings while he was racking didn't add any time, I felt.
I made a mistake and lost the total times the balls were cleaned; I didn't equal out the calculation, so I couldn't count the total cleanings before I hit the wrong key and lost my data:sorry:
Total time spent cleaning: 266 seconds <>4 minutes 26 seconds

Adding four and a half minutes to a two hour fifteen minute time frame isn't that significant. IMHO:groucho:

 

[easy-e]

Is JAM aware you have usurped her position of Captain of the Spelling Police?

Dale(who is not immune to typos)

I'm just playing with you. I've seen you correct people before (including me) and thought you'd get a chuckle out of it. Sorry if it bothered you.

 

[Lonestar_jim]

I never watched the big amateur 1P challenge match that took place some years ago at Sandcastle. Was there a non-ball cleaning stipulation in place ?

 

[lfigueroa]

I see both sides of the argument. But the same thing happens it tennis, golf, bowling, baseball, basketball, football, etc. The ball gets cleaned or replaced often.

True. But pool does not have that tradition.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I see nothing wrong if someone wants cueball cleaned. Once in a rack is okay. I would not do it so often but sometimes if weather is humid I clean it almost as often. Normally one or two times per 100 points.

How do you feel about every rack?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

My thinking is - there's absolutely no reason for the playing conditions to change
over the course of the run, when it's very easy to create consistent conditions for the shooter.

It's not about wanting something "extra", it's about wanting conditions to be
normal and predictable throughout the entire run.

If someone introduced a new brand of rails and their weirdly shortened up
quite a bit after just a few hours, would you play on those?

If someone invented a cue ball that got gradually heavier, would you want to use it?

It isn't just about skids, it changes how the CB comes off a rail,
how much your sidespin throws the ob, it may even affect position a little.
So the fact that someone doesn't clean the ball and still runs 100, doesn't mean
it didn't come into play.

As for the complaint that it bogs things down for the spectator, or slows down tournaments,
we're talking 10 seconds per rack. Anyone who gets fidgety over that length of time
probably shouldn't be sweating 14.1 in the first place.

Incidentally, I don't think there's any danger of a slipper slope where everyone demands
a cleaning for every game at the DCC. But you DO see some players clean their cue ball, informally,
for every single break in a typical 9 or 10 ball set. They rub it on the head rail a bit before placing it.
So far this hasn't led to any kind of crisis for the TD.

My point is that cleaning the CB every rack is unusual for pool.

Now at 9ball and 8ball, where the games turnover, it's true that that's a different situation.

Lou Figueroa
loves to sweat 14.1

 

[lfigueroa]

I play mostly one pocket as well. You have a microfiber in your case right? I do, and use it to wipe my cue once in a while. I also use it to wipe my hands. Sometimes before the break, I will spin the cue ball against the rail, or give it a quick trip into the microfiber towel. Is it really that unusual?

No, it is not.

But how about every 14 shots?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

At the DCC this year, I noticed many players cleaning the cue ball every time they had ball in hand and before each break. I'm pretty sure Alex did this each time (spinning the cue ball on the cloth to clean it) in all of the 9 ball matches I saw, but I don't remember if I saw him do it during the 1P.



Now, if you are talking about cleaning a ball by removing it from play (as they do all the time in snooker), that is a different story, particularly given that (almost) no one in North America seems have the little ball markers the snooker referees have, so replacing the ball exactly where it was can be an issue, particularly where precise precision play is at issue.



I should add that I understand why players want the CB cleaned. A skid can cost them the match at their level, whereas it is extremely unlikely to cost me a match. The fear of a skid can also hurt them. I overheard Archer speaking at the DCC (I think about the 14.1) that a ball skidded on him earlier, and then later he was worried about a skid and it cost him (I was walking by, so I'm not sure if he shot a different shot than he would have, or hit it harder, or what).



So, to my mind, reasonable steps should be taken to eliminate actual skids and ease the player's mind about possible skids.



Gideon

Gideon, maybe the little Michaela Tabb ball marker thingie will become the next popular pool case gimcrack everyone will be carrying.

Lou Figueroa
can move
mine around
any ol' time

 

[lfigueroa]

So what about in between every game? Whats wrong with that? I understand the issue with straight pool being that there is no point in the run when the cueball is picked up off the table which means a ref is required, but its not unreasonable for a cueball to be cleaned every game in 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball, or One Pocket.

I think in between games is no biggie. I do that before I break.

But how about every 14 shots?

Lou Figueroa

 

[Tony_in_MD]

How is this different than picking lint off the cloth?

 

[lfigueroa]

When Earl ran the ten pack at CJ's in 4-96....he individually wiped off EVERY object ball before he broke. The newer type of GC pocket lining that was being used on that table, was coming off like an eraser on too the pocketed balls also, Earl wasn't making any balls in the two lower pockets.

Well, at least he had a reason -- the pocket lining was marking up the balls.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I did a "subjective" analysis of the time spent cleaning the cue ball. The ball was cleaned, I believe, eight times when he was shooting, the rest was when he was racking. I was on the liberal side when deciding the length of time cleaning added to the total time he would've spent playing. A lot of the cleanings while he was racking didn't add any time, I felt.
I made a mistake and lost the total times the balls were cleaned; I didn't equal out the calculation, so I couldn't count the total cleanings before I hit the wrong key and lost my data:sorry:
Total time spent cleaning: 266 seconds <>4 minutes 26 seconds

Adding four and a half minutes to a two hour fifteen minute time frame isn't that significant. IMHO:groucho:

You're right. One guy, not much time added. But how about 500 guys in the bank pool, 400 in the 1pocket, and another 400 in the 9ball doing it?

I think if you're to allowing guy to do it, you then are put in the position of allowing everyone to do it, no?

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I never watched the big amateur 1P challenge match that took place some years ago at Sandcastle. Was there a non-ball cleaning stipulation in place ?

No.

I think the only ball cleaning each day was when I was breaking and rubbed the CB on my jeans. Even if it would have helped, it would never occur to me to ask for the CB to be removed from the table and have it cleaned every 14 shots.

Lou Figueroa

 

[easy-e]

You're right. One guy, not much time added. But how about 500 guys in the bank pool, 400 in the 1pocket, and another 400 in the 9ball doing it?

I think if you're to allowing guy to do it, you then are put in the position of allowing everyone to do it, no?

Lou Figueroa

But not everybody WANTS to do it. And if they all do, then no one has a problem.