Weight needed for C-player against pro

M

MisspentYouth

Banned
I recently had a discussion w/ a pro about what kind of weight I would need. I used to be a mid-B, but I only play maybe once every few months now and that is after a layoff of nearly ten years. I would say I'm probably a C of some sort now. I said to him, "I wouldn't play you even if you gave me the wild 5-and-out, all the breaks, ball-in-hand after the break and the wild balls count on the break." He said he couldn't give me that kind of weight. I said, "Bullshit!" for 2 main reasons:

1) I assume he thought I was stupid.
2) SVB beat Scooter w/ wild 6 and out, and all the breaks and I am not an A-player.

I think I would need something along the lines of:

Wild 5-and-out
All breaks
B-in-hand after breaks
Wilds count on break
He has to bank the 9 to win

I realize that sounds ridiculous, but if I made even one mistake, he runs out and I start crying.

What do you all think a typical C would need?
 
MisspentYouth said:
I recently had a discussion w/ a pro about what kind of weight I would need. I used to be a mid-B, but I only play maybe once every few months now and that is after a layoff of nearly ten years. I would say I'm probably a C of some sort now. I said to him, "I wouldn't play you even if you gave me the wild 5-and-out, all the breaks, ball-in-hand after the break and the wild balls count on the break." He said he couldn't give me that kind of weight. I said, "Bullshit!" for 2 main reasons:

1) I assume he thought I was stupid.
2) SVB beat Scooter w/ wild 6 and out, and all the breaks and I am not an A-player.

I think I would need something along the lines of:

Wild 5-and-out
All breaks
B-in-hand after breaks
Wilds count on break
He has to bank the 9 to win

I realize that sounds ridiculous, but if I made even one mistake, he runs out and I start crying.

What do you all think a typical C would need?
Click to expand...

If you lose with that weight, even against God himself, put your cue away and take up curling.
 
A typical C player would need less weight than all that horse crap I just read.
 
Loose the ball in hand and him having to bank the 9. If you shot mid b speed before you should be able to do well with the 5out and all the breaks. A true C player maybe ball in hand.
 
You don't need all that weight that's just ridiculous.

I beat a guy who plays Larry nevel speed getting the 6,8 and the breaks and I am a true c player.
 
It sounds like your game and mine are pretty comparable, Misspent. I think that when the variance between the two players is so wide (C vs. Pro) it's almost impossible to determine a handicap that levels the playing field.

The weight you list is as good as any -- but still might produce a lopsided match in either direction.
 
MisspentYouth said:
What do you all think a typical C would need?
Click to expand...

A real life job if he has to ask for all of this....

To add to it a 'C' player in one area could be a 'B' player in another...I consider myself a C player and I am a nationally locked 7 in APA 8 ball. I would take the wild 5 and the breaks on the barbox from the pros (no "and out", just the 5)...I should win with that more often than not if I control my break.
 
You need practice to improve, not ridiculous spots. Chances are however, the practice may not be so much on the table as it may be in your head. Focus, concentration, touch, imagination, creativity all of which, IMO, come much more slowly in 9 ball than in some other games.

So ... while you're pounding the rails trying to sink your spot, you're loosing valuable improvement time.
 
MisspentYouth said:
I recently had a discussion w/ a pro about what kind of weight I would need. I used to be a mid-B, but I only play maybe once every few months now and that is after a layoff of nearly ten years. I would say I'm probably a C of some sort now. I said to him, "I wouldn't play you even if you gave me the wild 5-and-out, all the breaks, ball-in-hand after the break and the wild balls count on the break." He said he couldn't give me that kind of weight. I said, "Bullshit!" for 2 main reasons:

1) I assume he thought I was stupid.
2) SVB beat Scooter w/ wild 6 and out, and all the breaks and I am not an A-player.

I think I would need something along the lines of:

Wild 5-and-out
All breaks
B-in-hand after breaks
Wilds count on break
He has to bank the 9 to win

I realize that sounds ridiculous, but if I made even one mistake, he runs out and I start crying.

What do you all think a typical C would need?
Click to expand...

If the guy you are playing never missed a ball you would still probably win with that weight. I like to figure what it would take for them to beat me out of any given amount of money over time. You may be surprised it may not take as much as you think to have a game you can stay even with them.

If you can play and assuming you don't just dog your brains out, you are going to win your share of games no matter what. All you need is enough to tip the scale in your favor. I played a top player once with 2 to 1 on the money per game at 9-ball. It was amazing how easily I won.

But if you analyze the game he has to beat me 2 out of 3 games just to stay even. To actually beat me out of anything he has to beat me like 8 or 9 out of every 10 games. If he beats me 7 out of 10 he is up like 1 game after 10 games. God forbid if I win like 4.
I think I have the numbers right I am doing them quickly in my head but you get the point.

Don't expect many top players who over spot you to stay with the game long before they want to change. They will often offer you anything to get you on the table but in no time they will be negotiating. If you don't want to change the spot they just write it off. They didn't plan on losing much anyway.
 
First of all, why would any so called pro want to play you with that much weight? Secondly, I seriously dobt you'd get that kind of weight without the pro having to at least seeing your game first in order to better decide what kind of spot they'd be willing to give up, and if the money was worth it or not.
 
MisspentYouth said:
I recently had a discussion w/ a pro about what kind of weight I would need. I used to be a mid-B, but I only play maybe once every few months now and that is after a layoff of nearly ten years. I would say I'm probably a C of some sort now. I said to him, "I wouldn't play you even if you gave me the wild 5-and-out, all the breaks, ball-in-hand after the break and the wild balls count on the break." He said he couldn't give me that kind of weight. I said, "Bullshit!" for 2 main reasons:

1) I assume he thought I was stupid.
2) SVB beat Scooter w/ wild 6 and out, and all the breaks and I am not an A-player.

I think I would need something along the lines of:

Wild 5-and-out
All breaks
B-in-hand after breaks
Wilds count on break
He has to bank the 9 to win

I realize that sounds ridiculous, but if I made even one mistake, he runs out and I start crying.

What do you all think a typical C would need?
Click to expand...

That's not even a game. Who would want to play that?
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
The two of you are simply not meant to gamble. Seriously, you're looking for "balance" on a needle.
Click to expand...

Everyone is meant to gamble. Case & point, Dippy Dave (who's way stronger than a C player btw). If the money is right, they'll make the game right. And the game can always be close and it will depend on the C player dogging it or not.
 
For me to play an average pro, the 5 out and breaks on a big table is where we would start and adjust if needed.
 
Why would you even play with that much weight? I feel like my confidence would be at an all time low after asking someone for so much weight to play, instead I would just play people that are my speed, EVEN. Why go into a kitchen not being able to handle the heat? Why not just play other C,B, or even A players instead of jumping straight to gambling with pros? :confused:
 
cleary said:
Everyone is meant to gamble. Case & point, Dippy Dave (who's way stronger than a C player btw). If the money is right, they'll make the game right. And the game can always be close and it will depend on the C player dogging it or not.
Click to expand...

Dude...you can't be serious that you think Dippy is stronger than a C player? I'm not talking about matching up with spots in one pocket...just shooting in general?? If he is way above a C player I should be a B to B+ and I know I am not at that level. I think Dave on this forum had a fairly good chart that designated the different levels he can maybe re post. After you see it I would guess you would change his ranking to a C at the absolute best. Maybe he can post the chart or link to it.
 
MisspentYouth said:
I recently had a discussion w/ a pro about what kind of weight I would need. I used to be a mid-B, but I only play maybe once every few months now and that is after a layoff of nearly ten years. I would say I'm probably a C of some sort now. I said to him, "I wouldn't play you even if you gave me the wild 5-and-out, all the breaks, ball-in-hand after the break and the wild balls count on the break." He said he couldn't give me that kind of weight. I said, "Bullshit!" for 2 main reasons:

1) I assume he thought I was stupid.
2) SVB beat Scooter w/ wild 6 and out, and all the breaks and I am not an A-player.

I think I would need something along the lines of:

Wild 5-and-out
All breaks
B-in-hand after breaks
Wilds count on break
He has to bank the 9 to win

I realize that sounds ridiculous, but if I made even one mistake, he runs out and I start crying.

What do you all think a typical C would need?
Click to expand...

You must be really rich and blind for a pro to try that game.
 
MisspentYouth said:
I recently had a discussion w/ a pro about what kind of weight I would need. I used to be a mid-B, but I only play maybe once every few months now and that is after a layoff of nearly ten years. I would say I'm probably a C of some sort now. I said to him, "I wouldn't play you even if you gave me the wild 5-and-out, all the breaks, ball-in-hand after the break and the wild balls count on the break." He said he couldn't give me that kind of weight. I said, "Bullshit!" for 2 main reasons:

1) I assume he thought I was stupid.
2) SVB beat Scooter w/ wild 6 and out, and all the breaks and I am not an A-player.

I think I would need something along the lines of:

Wild 5-and-out
All breaks
B-in-hand after breaks
Wilds count on break
He has to bank the 9 to win

I realize that sounds ridiculous, but if I made even one mistake, he runs out and I start crying.

What do you all think a typical C would need?
Click to expand...

That spot's silly. A very mediocre player should be running 6-packs routinely with the wild 5-and-out and BIH after the break. The pro can never run even 2 racks in a row because he's giving up the breaks. Even if he's the best player ever to live, and the best player that ever will live, he might as well set fire to his bankroll.

Spotting the breaks and BIH after the breaks goes a long way to even the field in a pro-vs-joe game. To make it an even game from there, the C player needs to run out less than 50% of the time. The pro's going to win the vast majority of the games where he gets to shoot, but he can't outrun the spot if he doesn't shoot in more than 50% of games.

For a C player, I would think the 5-ball might do it. The breaks, BIH, and the 5. Certainly not 5 wild balls as you suggest. Of course it depends on table difficulty (pocket cut, how easily it breaks) and exactly how strong of a C player we're talking about.

-Andrew
 
outranu said:
You don't need all that weight that's just ridiculous.

I beat a guy who plays Larry nevel speed getting the 6,8 and the breaks and I am a true c player.
Click to expand...

You're not a C player then, I can probably beat a C player with that spot half the time and I'm only a B+. Against a pro a C player needs a lot of weight.
 
Spimp13 said:
Dude...you can't be serious that you think Dippy is stronger than a C player? I'm not talking about matching up with spots in one pocket...just shooting in general?? If he is way above a C player I should be a B to B+ and I know I am not at that level. I think Dave on this forum had a fairly good chart that designated the different levels he can maybe re post. After you see it I would guess you would change his ranking to a C at the absolute best. Maybe he can post the chart or link to it.
Click to expand...

I've seen him play several times in person, a lot on the internet and I think he has the world fooled. I would say he's a B/B+ish depending on his mix.
 
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