Its possible to fix....very tough without making the cue smaller but rat can do it.....period.
well here we are again. bash me.
- Thread starter Trent
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I generally try to stay out of these "dispute" threads. But I feel the need to say something.
First, Trent is right to be worried about getting bashed. Cue makers have often gotten the short end of the stick in this forum.
Second, I am a staunch advocate and supporter of the efforts of the cue makers. Sure, they are human and sometimes do wrong, but they are artists and I give them a lot of breathing room because of that.
Third, I know both of these gentlemen from interactions on the forum. I do not know them personally and have no allegiances to either one but I respect both.
How I see this matter:
Trent is a hobbyist cue maker. Meridian Blades is a knife maker, a hobbyist as far as I know. Now, Meridian Blades has experience with materials related to knife making and an interest in pool cues. He has posted some spectacular looking materials with the idea to use them in pool cues. But he is not a cue maker. So, I see any work including his materials as experimental. As noted above there can be adhesion issues with some materials, even I was aware of this. But it does not matter if either of these gentlemen were aware of what the specific issues could be, only that there are unknowns is enough. It was stated that there was at least one issue in the past and they apparently had an agreement about such things: If there was a failure then the materials would be returned.
There was an emotional component here. Meridian Blades was very quick and direct in his responses, but not improper or rude IMHO. Trent was definitely seeking a solution, but was emotionally invested in the issue. I don't think there is any mal-intent on the part of either party involved.
If I were Meridian blades I would have asked Trent to hold onto the cue until after his move, or ask him if he would take it back to work on it after the move. Why? I think Trent should have been more interested in fixing it or at least trying. I don't understand why he wanted to walk away from the project so quickly. Surely he was doing it cheap, but there is a learning process with new materials and these guys could have helped each other out. If Meridian really wants his materials used in cues he needs to work with a cue maker to develop an understanding of the characteristics of these materials as applies to cue making. He seems to know a good bit about his materials and about stabilizing wood, but he is not a cue maker and does not know how his materials will actually work in that application.
Could Trent cut up the cue? Sure he could. A guy named Vincent cut off his own ear....artists do things like that. It could easily come back to bite him in the ass though because Meridian seems likely to pursue the matter legally. But it is up to Trent...he could cut up the cue. Personally I think that's the wrong decision. I think it's spiteful.
Could Trent send the cue "as is"? Sure, but he has said for sure he will not do that. So unless he has a change of heart, that's not an option. I feel that as long as he feels attacked on the issues he will be less likely to take that option. He does feel bashed...that's how he feels so that's what matters, it's his perspective. I am not saying that he has been bashed, only that he feels he has.
Could Meridian accept Trent's offer of wood and a cue in the future? Sure, but I don't think he will. He wants his KOA. The wood itself is not cheap and the stabilization process is not cheap. The wood has been machined though. You can't put wood back together so it is what it is, and he is willing to accept that.
Could Meridian call the cops and lawyer-up? Sure he could. He does have time and money in the deal and if the cue makers violates the agreement resulting in a loss then I would say there is some sort of case. But it isn't a very large case and pursuing it actually would be very likely not worth it. I have a hard time believing that he really thinks Trent sold the wood or the cue or anything else of that nature. Personally I think it would be the wrong decision anyway. It is actually spiteful, regardless of the legal merit.
I have not spoken to either one of these gentlemen about this. But I will say what I think they should do.
This is an example of men behaving badly, both of you guys. Meridian, if you call the cops or hire a lawyer I'll call you a panty-waste myself. Why in the hell would you want to be "that guy". Hey, I am not saying it couldn't get to that point....but you are jumping the gun by a long shot even by suggesting it. Trent, if you cut up that cue I'm going to buy you a skirt. Man-up, you screwed up the A Joint. You sure as hell didn't start making cues without screwing up nice wood. It's not time for a tantrum on this one, even if Meridian did threaten to call the cops. I already said I would be the first to call him a panty-waste if he actually did so at this point.
Both of you ladies need to kiss and make up, back up....man up...start from square one with the proverbial hand shake and "nice to meet you".
Trent, I can't believe you gave up on this so easy. You are working with an experimental material and should expect a possibility of a start over. Yes, your time and materials ain't cheap. Nobody is taking that for granted. You can certainly rebuild that A Joint if you put yourself to it.
Meridian, I can't believe you were so quick to give up on your cue maker. You should have encouraged him to work on the cue. I know you have a lot more in that wood than most people would think, but having a hissy fit ain't gonna help your wood. Hey, if Trent needs to step back from it and return to it later, let him. Can't you tell he is upset for having screwed it up?
That cue is beautiful. It is beautiful because Meridian supplied some nice wood, but equally because of what Trent did with it. The cue should be completed and both of you should be more patient with the other in order to accomplish that.
If you two want to have a girl fight for all to see then have at it. I'll sell popcorn. I'll tell you right now that both of you have come out fighting in hooker pumps, red nail polish, tight skirts, and lipstick. I don't care who said what first, who started it, or who screwed whose boyfriend. Get over it and start over. This forum has enough of this shit and I would really like to see the two of you set an example of how to rise above it. I would prefer that both of you see fit to take off your skirts and trade them for trousers, but if only one of you takes the humble high road and gives in to the other then so be it, at least we'll only have one of you going around in drag picking girl fights.
That's all I have to say about that.
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First, Trent is right to be worried about getting bashed. Cue makers have often gotten the short end of the stick in this forum.
Second, I am a staunch advocate and supporter of the efforts of the cue makers. Sure, they are human and sometimes do wrong, but they are artists and I give them a lot of breathing room because of that.
Third, I know both of these gentlemen from interactions on the forum. I do not know them personally and have no allegiances to either one but I respect both.
How I see this matter:
Trent is a hobbyist cue maker. Meridian Blades is a knife maker, a hobbyist as far as I know. Now, Meridian Blades has experience with materials related to knife making and an interest in pool cues. He has posted some spectacular looking materials with the idea to use them in pool cues. But he is not a cue maker. So, I see any work including his materials as experimental. As noted above there can be adhesion issues with some materials, even I was aware of this. But it does not matter if either of these gentlemen were aware of what the specific issues could be, only that there are unknowns is enough. It was stated that there was at least one issue in the past and they apparently had an agreement about such things: If there was a failure then the materials would be returned.
There was an emotional component here. Meridian Blades was very quick and direct in his responses, but not improper or rude IMHO. Trent was definitely seeking a solution, but was emotionally invested in the issue. I don't think there is any mal-intent on the part of either party involved.
If I were Meridian blades I would have asked Trent to hold onto the cue until after his move, or ask him if he would take it back to work on it after the move. Why? I think Trent should have been more interested in fixing it or at least trying. I don't understand why he wanted to walk away from the project so quickly. Surely he was doing it cheap, but there is a learning process with new materials and these guys could have helped each other out. If Meridian really wants his materials used in cues he needs to work with a cue maker to develop an understanding of the characteristics of these materials as applies to cue making. He seems to know a good bit about his materials and about stabilizing wood, but he is not a cue maker and does not know how his materials will actually work in that application.
Could Trent cut up the cue? Sure he could. A guy named Vincent cut off his own ear....artists do things like that. It could easily come back to bite him in the ass though because Meridian seems likely to pursue the matter legally. But it is up to Trent...he could cut up the cue. Personally I think that's the wrong decision. I think it's spiteful.
Could Trent send the cue "as is"? Sure, but he has said for sure he will not do that. So unless he has a change of heart, that's not an option. I feel that as long as he feels attacked on the issues he will be less likely to take that option. He does feel bashed...that's how he feels so that's what matters, it's his perspective. I am not saying that he has been bashed, only that he feels he has.
Could Meridian accept Trent's offer of wood and a cue in the future? Sure, but I don't think he will. He wants his KOA. The wood itself is not cheap and the stabilization process is not cheap. The wood has been machined though. You can't put wood back together so it is what it is, and he is willing to accept that.
Could Meridian call the cops and lawyer-up? Sure he could. He does have time and money in the deal and if the cue makers violates the agreement resulting in a loss then I would say there is some sort of case. But it isn't a very large case and pursuing it actually would be very likely not worth it. I have a hard time believing that he really thinks Trent sold the wood or the cue or anything else of that nature. Personally I think it would be the wrong decision anyway. It is actually spiteful, regardless of the legal merit.
I have not spoken to either one of these gentlemen about this. But I will say what I think they should do.
This is an example of men behaving badly, both of you guys. Meridian, if you call the cops or hire a lawyer I'll call you a panty-waste myself. Why in the hell would you want to be "that guy". Hey, I am not saying it couldn't get to that point....but you are jumping the gun by a long shot even by suggesting it. Trent, if you cut up that cue I'm going to buy you a skirt. Man-up, you screwed up the A Joint. You sure as hell didn't start making cues without screwing up nice wood. It's not time for a tantrum on this one, even if Meridian did threaten to call the cops. I already said I would be the first to call him a panty-waste if he actually did so at this point.
Both of you ladies need to kiss and make up, back up....man up...start from square one with the proverbial hand shake and "nice to meet you".
Trent, I can't believe you gave up on this so easy. You are working with an experimental material and should expect a possibility of a start over. Yes, your time and materials ain't cheap. Nobody is taking that for granted. You can certainly rebuild that A Joint if you put yourself to it.
Meridian, I can't believe you were so quick to give up on your cue maker. You should have encouraged him to work on the cue. I know you have a lot more in that wood than most people would think, but having a hissy fit ain't gonna help your wood. Hey, if Trent needs to step back from it and return to it later, let him. Can't you tell he is upset for having screwed it up?
That cue is beautiful. It is beautiful because Meridian supplied some nice wood, but equally because of what Trent did with it. The cue should be completed and both of you should be more patient with the other in order to accomplish that.
If you two want to have a girl fight for all to see then have at it. I'll sell popcorn. I'll tell you right now that both of you have come out fighting in hooker pumps, red nail polish, tight skirts, and lipstick. I don't care who said what first, who started it, or who screwed whose boyfriend. Get over it and start over. This forum has enough of this shit and I would really like to see the two of you set an example of how to rise above it. I would prefer that both of you see fit to take off your skirts and trade them for trousers, but if only one of you takes the humble high road and gives in to the other then so be it, at least we'll only have one of you going around in drag picking girl fights.
That's all I have to say about that.
.
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Damn son.... Step back a few steps and look at this obejectively Trent. You were contracted to do a job, its that simple. Throw all of the shop time, creative license, whatever out the window. You made a defective product that doesn't meet your standards, that is your issue, you're the one to blame, not the customer.
I know for a fact that you are moving soon, if you don't have the time left to remedy the cue do the right thing and send the cue to a reputable cue maker to fix the A joint and refinish the cue.... Out of your own pocket! If the customer doesn't want to do that send him the cue intact and let him deal with it or do what he wishes with it. Professional suicide by AZB isn't the answer.
This whole deal is one of the many reasons this country is turning into a shit hole...
I know for a fact that you are moving soon, if you don't have the time left to remedy the cue do the right thing and send the cue to a reputable cue maker to fix the A joint and refinish the cue.... Out of your own pocket! If the customer doesn't want to do that send him the cue intact and let him deal with it or do what he wishes with it. Professional suicide by AZB isn't the answer.
This whole deal is one of the many reasons this country is turning into a shit hole...
Please review post #69 as I would still be honoring our agreement by sending the wood back.
Thank you your honor.
Good post but this case is not small.....I have seen people go to court over 80 bucks...and win thousands because because of fees and damages. Trent would lose alot of money and foot the bill for the whole case just for meridian to get his 500 dollars back if and only if damages arn't awarded. IN the emails it says meridian payed in full. Trent refund all and I mean all of his money and send him the cue. Your out of the woods as far as legal problems and that is your biggest problems not what people think of you on here.
Banks
Banned
Wtf is your problem? That's a rhetorical question..
Grow up
Quite being a child for long enough to let some good advice sink into that thick skull. If he paid for you to build a cue that is a written and verbal contract. If you took his wood and altered it in anyway due to your negligence before you return it he has a case. With your attitude you better get a lawyer because you stand no chance in a court room in front of a judge. They tend to think highly of themselves and you will piss them off with your attitude. And I believe your in the army....did the army not teach you anything? I can't believe this is still up for debate?????? Are you trying to drum up bad publicity??
Quite being a child for long enough to let some good advice sink into that thick skull. If he paid for you to build a cue that is a written and verbal contract. If you took his wood and altered it in anyway due to your negligence before you return it he has a case. With your attitude you better get a lawyer because you stand no chance in a court room in front of a judge. They tend to think highly of themselves and you will piss them off with your attitude. And I believe your in the army....did the army not teach you anything? I can't believe this is still up for debate?????? Are you trying to drum up bad publicity??
All future buyers of cues through this site thank you.
You sound like a 5 year old.
And you're making yourself look like a jacka$$ in a public forum.
Good choice!
First let me thank you for a un-bias post in this thread.
Second I was not opposed to the highlighted option above, I acted in a form to which I thought was civil in my emails and wanted to come to a nice resolution.
It wasn't until the slew of uncalled for emails full of threats that I gave up.
If he would like to wait ill fix and finish the cue, it will be the only one on the table after I move so it will get plenty of attention.
If Larry will agree to this then we can call this issue resolved if not then I will simply and nicely disassemble the cue and return it as per out initial agreement.
At least something good has been born out of all this mess...the phrase "commiting cueicide"
At this point, I believe the thread is done. Trent obviously doesn't care to heed the advice of anyone here. He started the thread hoping that public opinion would go his way and he is upset that it didn't work out this way. This is evident by the posts made, i.e. the post to JCIN about how he thought those in "the industry" would blindly take his side without having an opinion of their own because they both make money through pool.
He has been given good advice and it is up to him to accept it. I'm sure those who have seen the thread will decide if they want one of his cues or not. His mind was made up long before this thread started and now he will bear the consequences of those decisions if Meridian chooses to enact counsel and Trent loses. It is what it is.
Regardless, Trent will get to keep his "pride" intact, for what it's worth.
I didn't say it was small. I said it probably wasn't worth it. That is a statement that takes a hell of a lot more into consideration than just the money. I stand by what I said, it probably isn't worth it.
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Lol Maybe I'll make it into someones signature...lol. I guess it to late to get a copyright. Remember you heard it here folks:smile:
And for future cue makers who get inquiries about using the customers wood. Tell the customer I will buy the wood from you and make you a cue with it. But you must actually pay the person the cost of the wood so that they have no legal claim to it. Then add that to the cost of the cue. Its very simple.
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If you are talking about Shane vs Earl on the final day we didnt screw up the PPV system shit the bed and locked out the session so we switched to a free feed for the last half of the day. Pretty sure that situation is a tiny bit different than the one we are discussing here though.
I go out of my way to give customers what they want even if it means I do not get what I want.
Read that sentence again.
Then send this guy his cue as its the right thing to do.
Thanks for your support of TAR.
And to think, if you had just arrived at this conclusion last night, you could have avoided making YOURSELF look like a fool AND done little to no harm to your 'reputation'.
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