Went to a remodeled pool hall today, 13.50 per hour?

Dead Money said:
This is very common especially if you typically play during the afternoons or late at night when it is slow. There are a ton of little scams employees run. Free drinks === bigger tips, etc. It's not right but it does happen a lot. Chris knows this all to well I am sure.
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Having had employees myself I have seen a bunch of scams. Had a service station on the rich side of town. Minimum wage was a buck and a quarter an hour and standard wages for pumping gas. My night shift guy was changing the air in all four tires when it got lumpy so the car would ride better. Charged two bucks for all four. I found out when a lady came by and told me how wonderful the car rode after him changing the air. Tried to get Tony to stop with this and a few more scams. Couldn't do it so although I liked him he was the first man I ever fired!

I could just bet that some people were getting "deals" at the side gate from my employees when I had an auto salvage. I had a four feet by four feet "Do not enter" sign there. The side gate was a drive in gate with a 22x24 feet shop building next to it. I had a doberman under my desk that had flunked police training, he had a few interesting habits. He did know about the side gate though. He would go sailing out from under the desk and seconds later you would hear him working. Some cries for help too. Any video of a police dog stopping somebody in place is the same. It looks like they are an instant away from tearing someone to shreds. If I was waiting on somebody I would ignore it for a few minutes or as long as five. When customers would ask if I needed to take care of that, "naah, he isn't going anywhere!" Happened several times a week at first, got down to several times a month. I'm sure the time against the wall before I came to peel them off was a long long time for the people!

Lots of employee scams. I had to fire a few men I really didn't want to over them. Some were stealing from me, some from the customers! I was over at a friend's auto salvage. A customer wanted to know what he would sell the tires on a car for. "I'll take ten apiece or fifty for the set!" The customer bought the set.

I waited until after the customer left. "Roger, you just charged the customer extra to buy the set of tires. "I know, Brother(one of his hands) did it and the customer was happy so we have been doing it ever since." All I could do was shake my head and laugh, it wasn't a practice I took up.

Hu
 
ShootingArts said:
Having had employees myself I have seen a bunch of scams. Had a service station on the rich side of town. Minimum wage was a buck and a quarter an hour and standard wages for pumping gas. My night shift guy was changing the air in all four tires when it got lumpy so the car would ride better. Charged two bucks for all four. I found out when a lady came by and told me how wonderful the car rode after him changing the air. Tried to get Tony to stop with this and a few more scams. Couldn't do it so although I liked him he was the first man I ever fired!

I could just bet that some people were getting "deals" at the side gate from my employees when I had an auto salvage. I had a four feet by four feet "Do not enter" sign there. The side gate was a drive in gate with a 22x24 feet shop building next to it. I had a doberman under my desk that had flunked police training, he had a few interesting habits. He did know about the side gate though. He would go sailing out from under the desk and seconds later you would hear him working. Some cries for help too. Any video of a police dog stopping somebody in place is the same. It looks like they are an instant away from tearing someone to shreds. If I was waiting on somebody I would ignore it for a few minutes or as long as five. When customers would ask if I needed to take care of that, "naah, he isn't going anywhere!" Happened several times a week at first, got down to several times a month. I'm sure the time against the wall before I came to peel them off was a long long time for the people!

Lots of employee scams. I had to fire a few men I really didn't want to over them. Some were stealing from me, some from the customers! I was over at a friend's auto salvage. A customer wanted to know what he would sell the tires on a car for. "I'll take ten apiece or fifty for the set!" The customer bought the set.

I waited until after the customer left. "Roger, you just charged the customer extra to buy the set of tires. "I know, Brother(one of his hands) did it and the customer was happy so we have been doing it ever since." All I could do was shake my head and laugh, it wasn't a practice I took up.

Hu
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One of the hardest things I’ve had to do in the 25 years we’ve operated was to terminate the best waitress we ever had when I had definitive proof that she was undercharging certain favorite customers, on numerous occasions.
 
I had a friend in the nightclub biz. His places were geared for the college yuppie crowd but always had great sound systems,pool tables ,foosball tables a few arcade games , and dance floors. He built and opened 4 of them in a 2 year period.
When he had his 1st club he hired "H" . I told him you know he is a thief,just can't help himself. He replied , H is a fantastic bartender who is a good looking charming guy who will bring in enough ladies to cover what he steals.
After about 5 months the owner said to me " H is a real smart son of a bitch. We have done about 3 things to stop the stealing and he just keeps finding another way. Got my new club opening and cant wait to get him there".
H worked for about 3 years and all 4 clubs before he actually quit because he could no longer find a way to steal and not get caught. Keep in mind this is around 1985 and H was making 2-300 a night in tips,but he had to steal.
 
I don't go to many pool rooms, what do those rates mean? In other words $13.50 an hour, is that for one player, two or more, per player per hour. What does it mean. When I owned pool rooms I had creative pricing. I had a practice rate for single players with the understanding during busy hours they may have to give up the table. My standard rate was a per player rate. Reasonably priced but when there was 4 on a table I was getting a pretty good price.

I once did a thing where you could buy a block of time for one price. You got a card and it was punched as you used up your time. That really worked good. I was surprised a lot of players who bought time instead on playing by themselves would make games with other players who were paying regular price, so in a sense they were making money for me.

In fact I got a complaint from another room that I was stealing their customers with low prices. They said we should work together to fix the price. Either way, there are ways for a room to make money and still have reasonable prices. The trick is to maximize income during peak hours while increasing play during off hours. The daytime specials are example.

Finding this formula is the responsibility of the room owner. They have to figure how to make a profit while still providing a good and fair value to the customer. Not any different then most any other business. A poolroom is a volume business. It needs a lot of regular customers yet recognize they also come and go. So they need to be gaining new customers as well. Another thing with a poolroom, it has built in limitations.

There are only so many hours in the day and only so many peak hours. They are limited by the number of table and how much they can produce at a given time. The fact is, most of 24 the hours of the day these tables sit empty. A poolroom is not like say being in the tire business. Nothing limits how many tires you can sell. A poolroom is selling time and it is limited. Yes, they may sell beer and some food but we are talking about the poolroom business and prices.

First, pool is not an essential need, no one really needs to play pool. Money in most cases dictates how people behave. There are things they may like but will go without due to the price. Starbucks went against that idea with a unique business model. They over charge for something no one needs yet the people still go there. Dominos does the opposite. They sell a good, (matter of opinion but great for the money) pizza for the price people paid 20 years ago. $7.95 with three toppings. Both seem to work.

My wife said to me shockingly would I want another poolroom. I can tell you a year ago what I would say but now I am a little more optimistic. I have a formula for a poolrom that most anyone can do that works. She has me thinking. Kind of old though. I could go on but thats enough. Point is, bottom line, a poolroom has to make money and provide a value for the customer. Without both of these it will be short lived.
 
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justnum said:
you plan to walk in and act like you own the place for 13.50 an hour.

it happens just respect the staff and room
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Amsterdam...I was there once on Sat afternoon...there was a tournament going on. Played for a few hours with a relative. We loved it there. A great setting. Would go back again and again when in NY.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Well location & cost of operation is what set prices. If your Pool Room is in high rent district, rates will reflect cost of operation. If your in some slum neighborhood, well the cost of operation should be less.

Having had a small business many many years, I was very aware of the cost of daily operation. People who have not had a business do not realize all the cost of operation like.

Business License.

Fees associated with have sign.

Rent, or Mortage.

Insurance.

Phone.

Fax.

Wi-Fi.

Water.

Electricity.

Cost of furnature, pool tables, house cues, halk, ball, ball cleaner

Clean supplies, toilet paper, paper towels, and this is part of the cost.

None of the items mentioned above are FREE.
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You forgot the biggest expense - payroll.
 
Dan White said:
You forgot the biggest expense - payroll.
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Your are right, and with employees you got workscomp, social security.

If you pay say $10.00/hr. Cost to employees is about $14.00/he.

The you got to watch employees who will steal you blind, if you do not monitor.

had friend who talk about a Bar Tender in Pool Bar, he said she stole 100-150/ shift. Owner tolerated because she brought hot business.

Sill owner.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Your are right, and with employees you got workscomp, social security.

If you pay say $10.00/hr. Cost to employees is about $14.00/he.

The you got to watch employees who will steal you blind, if you do not monitor.

had friend who talk about a Bar Tender in Pool Bar, he said she stole 100-150/ shift. Owner tolerated because she brought hot business.

Sill owner.
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The problem with that is if you have a number of employees, they know what's going on. They will really resent it. Here they are being honest and fair and trying to do a good job as this other person steals and it's tolerated. They may very well say screw him I'm going to steal too.

Or they'll just say screw him why should I bother trying to do a good job for this guy and their job performance will go way down. Any and all loyalty will be lost. And yes employees should have a certain loyalty to their employer but to get that the employer needs their respect as well. All in all not how you run a business.
 
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CocoboloCowboy said:
Your are right, and with employees you got workscomp, social security.

If you pay say $10.00/hr. Cost to employees is about $14.00/he.

The you got to watch employees who will steal you blind, if you do not monitor.

had friend who talk about a Bar Tender in Pool Bar, he said she stole 100-150/ shift. Owner tolerated because she brought hot business.

Sill owner.
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Not good. If one employees steals $, others will figure it out, resent it, and may start stealing as well. Also, if she doesn’t get caught, she’ll just start stealing more and more $ until she gets caught and terminated.
 
middleofnowhere said:
The problem with that is if you have a number of employees, they know what's going on. They will really resent it. Here they are being honest and fair and trying to do a good job or this other person steals and it's tolerated. They may very well say screw him I'm going to steal too. All in all not how you run a business.
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In my world if you take a job for $10.00, it’s pays $10.00/hr.

If you steal from the boss, or business you are no better then a shoplifter.
 
middleofnowhere said:
The problem with that is if you have a number of employees, they know what's going on. They will really resent it. Here they are being honest and fair and trying to do a good job as this other person steals and it's tolerated. They may very well say screw him I'm going to steal too.

Or they'll just say screw him why should I bother trying to do a good job for this guy and their job performance will go way down. Any and all loyalty will be lost. And yes employees should have a certain loyalty to their employer but to get that the employer needs their respect as well. All in all not how you run a business.
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Loyal employees are hard to find, someone who work like they have partial ownership in business.

Many years ago I work for small company, that was making good money.

If we had record month, everyone got a cash bonus. Nice thank you for effort.
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Loyal employees are hard to find, someone who work like they have partial ownership in business.

Many years ago I work for small company, that was making good money.

If we had record month, everyone got a cash bonus. Nice thank you for effort.
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Loyalty can be as basic as showing up on time and being dependable.
 
No doubt varies with type of business but at one time an employee cost 1.5x what I paid them. The last business I had with employees adding in liability insurance and such they were costing me closer to 1.75X what I paid them.

I went to work on a new job, $14.00 an hour. Two days later they offered me a different title to do the same work and twenty an hour. Well, yes, I could tolerate that pretty well! Another day and they were really tentative, would I settle for $17.50 an hour? Being a former employer I knew what had happened, his CPA had pointed out my real cost per hour and I was working on a hard money contract! Considering I had came in at $14.00 an hour, three fifty an hour pay raise after I had been there three days and I was still doing only what I agreed to work for fourteen an hour to do and I was happy. Even better, I now got paid for staring out the window too!

Wonderful thing about being paid for your mind, no way to tell if you are daydreaming or working your butt off looking out the window! Well, except Friday's after lunch. Barring urgent business I was planning which spots I was going fishing that weekend and made no bones about it! Last few jobs I worked I made no bones about the last half day of the week being my time barring urgent business. I had one boss so well trained that he apologized for bringing me urgent business on a Friday afternoon! Four or five other people in the department and when we started monitoring everybody's weekly output I usually surpassed the entire output of the rest of the group. There were several reasons for that, but output justified my half day in place but not turning out much.

Hu
 
First time I have heard of a pool hall raising prices because the table was recovered. However, the hourly price is about in line for some places. Boston Billiards, Jillians, a few others charged about the same, and this was years ago. I usually try to play in places during tournaments or specials. At a few places I talked to the owner/manager about reduced flat time for me for helping out new players so they get more interested in coming back more to play and helping with tournaments.
 
hang-the-9 said:
First time I have heard of a pool hall raising prices because the table was recovered. However, the hourly price is about in line for some places. Boston Billiards, Jillians, a few others charged about the same, and this was years ago. I usually try to play in places during tournaments or specials. At a few places I talked to the owner/manager about reduced flat time for me for helping out new players so they get more interested in coming back more to play and helping with tournaments.
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Very common.. I have even been over charged because we were gambling. One time a place with a rate for two players wanted to charge me for both players because the guy I was playing worked there and didn't pay. Some of these poolroom owners are idiots.

This is the worst I ever had happen. Im playing a guy in a bar like $50.00 a game. This is not a pool action bar we just happened to end up there.
One thing leads to another and they turn off the light and say the game is over. It's only about 10:30 at night. I think they didn't like the crowd around the table and all what was going on. Thats ok I understand.

We decide to head over to a pool room that is not too far and play some on a big table. We get there and get a tray of balls and go to a table. In like a few seconds over comes the houseman and tells us we can't play on that table. The reason is he just cleaned it for the night we had to play on one of the dirty tables. On top of that he would not give us new pieces of chalk we had to use half worn out chalk that he had thrown in the tray. About this time the guys from the bar are arriving. After some debate about the chalk and table we look at each other and decide to call it a night.

It is not even 11pm yet we could have played 3 hours because they close at 2am. There was only two other tables playing and I think he wanted to close early. Long story short, the 20 or more guys who followed us would have spent at least couple hundred over the bar and we would have given him a nice tip as would they. Instead he made nothing. Imagine not letting us play on a clean table so he would not have to clean it again. What difference does it make if we dirty it or the first customers tomorrow. I am sure that is not the dumbest thing I have run across but it stands out.
 
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The worst attitude I've seen in a room owner was where every person in the playing area was charged as a player. You want to sit and watch a match? You pay table time. Six people in a group with only two players? All six pay table time. You step inside the rail? You're on time.
 
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