Well, you need to click my sig line: "It's Our Wonderful Life." :grin:
Jimmy Mataya is the angel!
What A Shame
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
Well, you need to click my sig line: "It's Our Wonderful Life." :grin:
Jimmy Mataya is the angel!
True, the player and the stakehorse could be stealing from the other party. Then the stake for the player definately needs to go up as the risk the stakehorse is taking goes down.
The stakehorse on the other side of that bet is now taking it up the pooper though.
That is the rub with stakehorsing, if there are two stakehorses one is destined to be taking a really bad bet, or in an even match both stake horses are getting crappy odds.
If you are paying off the player 50% you need to have your player as a 2/3 or 66% favorite in order for that bet to be even odds as a stakehorse over the long run.
Smart gambling really comes down to pure math and statistical averages, if you don't look at the numbers and work out the odds you are not doing it right. And most of the stakehorsing I have seen has been a brutal bet for the stakehorse, and that includes well known and respected stakehorses that post here.
I guess, Celtic, it's kind of like when forum posters write that pro players are homeless bums with no medical insurance and should not complain, thereby getting themselves a "real job" that my thoughts come into play as it pertains to this thread here.
The same can be said for the stakehorse. Believe it or not, Celtic, there are various categories of stakehorses, just like there are pro players. Some stakehorses only want to stake pro players in an effort to be the center of attention. Their psyche thrives on it, and since they can't play pool well enough to be a pro player, this is their foot in the door, so to speak. In fact, it's more like being a controller. They want to control the situation and have people bow down to them for their mighty gesture of being the stakehorse. :bow-down:
To this kind of stakehorse, money is god, and all else are beneath them. This stakehorse believes that anyone who has money or deep pockets warrants respect -- in fact, demands respect of everyone as if the stakehorse is some sort of royalty. This is the manner they carry themselves, and the truth of the matter is that the pool players wouldn't have one thing to do with them if it wasn't for that money, so they suck up, sad to say but true. Meanwhile, this type of stakehorse is the mirror image of The Emperor's New Clothes, and the poor saps don't even realize it. Maybe they do and still do it anyway, just to get that attention. :smilewinkgrin:
I have even heard of games being made, with the stakehorse pulling up at the last minute, throwing a monkey wrench in the entire operation. It kind of sucks when this happens for all involved, but, once again, this breed of stakehorse likes to be in control like a manipulating puppeteer. :frown:
Then there are stakehorses who get funny with the money when the players wins. All previously made agreements go out the window, and the pool player who played his/her heart out all night long to win the cheese ends up getting a peanut, while the stakehorse keeps the majority of the win. If you don't think this is upsetting to the pool player, you're wrong.
People write ad nauseum on this forum about dumps, as if they know something. Meanwhile, they usually don't know squat and hear tales through the grapevine. Well, people should hear the stories about the stakehorses who rip off the pool player. Then maybe they'd understand the whole picture. A stakehorse who rips off a pool player after the fact is just as guilty as a pool player who dumps.
Sure, it's a free shot at the money for the pool player when he/she is getting staked, but the pool player is working for that won money by shooting under pressure for hours at a time, sometimes days, trying to win, while the stakehorse, in reality, sat back and enjoyed the show.
ink:There are for sure some good stakehorses out there, as there are good pool players who enjoy action and getting staked. It should be a business arrangement, though, and all parties should agree on the percentage each is going to receive BEFOREHAND. That's the way it's supposed to be done.
I could recite a horror story about how a stakehorse tried to give my counterpart 20 percent after he won $2,500 in snooker action at $300 a game. The initial agreement before my counterpart won the cheese was 50/50. It didn't go down very well when after my counterpart won, the stakehorse handed him $500. The stakehorse was known in the past to talk about using physical force at times to make things right for him. Do you think the pool player wants to get in an argument with this kind of stakehorse for money? :ignore:
Screw the odds. If you make an agreement, then stick with it.
If a pool players doesn't like the offer of 20 percent from the stakehorse, then it is his/her prerogative to turn it down.
I guess what I am trying to say is the door swings both ways. In other words, the stakehorse's hands sometimes aren't clean either, ESPECIALLY in recent years, as is my observation. :yes:
In the end, Celtic, your math calculations and analogies might hold true to the non-pool-playing public, but we're talking about pool here, and all logic goes out the window when it comes to action sometimes. I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to staked games.
Last edited:
great post
JAM,
No surprise, a great post from somebody that is close to the scene. I always laugh a little when I see the odds for a stake horse as if pool was a game of chance. I'm not a gambler, games of chance don't do a thing for me. However I have been known to wager a little on the outcome of sporting events. At a guess I have wagered over a half million lifetime in small bets here and there and I am far from wealthy. However, most of those wagers were on myself, my horses, or horses I knew well and I have done just fine wagering regardless of what the odds were on paper.
Hu
JAM,
No surprise, a great post from somebody that is close to the scene. I always laugh a little when I see the odds for a stake horse as if pool was a game of chance. I'm not a gambler, games of chance don't do a thing for me. However I have been known to wager a little on the outcome of sporting events. At a guess I have wagered over a half million lifetime in small bets here and there and I am far from wealthy. However, most of those wagers were on myself, my horses, or horses I knew well and I have done just fine wagering regardless of what the odds were on paper.
Hu
I guess, Celtic, it's kind of like when forum posters write that pro players are homeless bums with no medical insurance and should not complain, thereby getting themselves a "real job" that my thoughts come into play as it pertains to this thread here.
The same can be said for the stakehorse. Believe it or not, Celtic, there are various categories of stakehorses, just like there are pro players. Some stakehorses only want to stake pro players in an effort to be the center of attention. Their psyche thrives on it, and since they can't play pool well enough to be a pro player, this is their foot in the door, so to speak. In fact, it's more like being a controller. They want to control the situation and have people bow down to them for their mighty gesture of being the stakehorse. :bow-down:
To this kind of stakehorse, money is god, and all else are beneath them. This stakehorse believes that anyone who has money or deep pockets warrants respect -- in fact, demands respect of everyone as if the stakehorse is some sort of royalty. This is the manner they carry themselves, and the truth of the matter is that the pool players wouldn't have one thing to do with them if it wasn't for that money, so they suck up, sad to say but true. Meanwhile, this type of stakehorse is the mirror image of The Emperor's New Clothes, and the poor saps don't even realize it. Maybe they do and still do it anyway, just to get that attention. :smilewinkgrin:
I have even heard of games being made, with the stakehorse pulling up at the last minute, throwing a monkey wrench in the entire operation. It kind of sucks when this happens for all involved, but, once again, this breed of stakehorse likes to be in control like a manipulating puppeteer. :frown:
Then there are stakehorses who get funny with the money when the players wins. All previously made agreements go out the window, and the pool player who played his/her heart out all night long to win the cheese ends up getting a peanut, while the stakehorse keeps the majority of the win. If you don't think this is upsetting to the pool player, you're wrong.
People write ad nauseum on this forum about dumps, as if they know something. Meanwhile, they usually don't know squat and hear tales through the grapevine. Well, people should hear the stories about the stakehorses who rip off the pool player. Then maybe they'd understand the whole picture. A stakehorse who rips off a pool player after the fact is just as guilty as a pool player who dumps.
Sure, it's a free shot at the money for the pool player when he/she is getting staked, but the pool player is working for that won money by shooting under pressure for hours at a time, sometimes days, trying to win, while the stakehorse, in reality, sat back and enjoyed the show.
There are for sure some good stakehorses out there, as there are good pool players who enjoy action and getting staked. It should be a business arrangement, though, and all parties should agree on the percentage each is going to receive BEFOREHAND. That's the way it's supposed to be done.
I could recite a horror story about how a stakehorse tried to give my counterpart 20 percent after he won $2,500 in snooker action at $300 a game. The initial agreement before my counterpart won the cheese was 50/50. It didn't go down very well when after my counterpart won, the stakehorse handed him $500. The stakehorse was known in the past to talk about using physical force at times to make things right for him. Do you think the pool player wants to get in an argument with this kind of stakehorse for money? :ignore:
Screw the odds. If you make an agreement, then stick with it.
If a pool players doesn't like the offer of 20 percent from the stakehorse, then it is his/her prerogative to turn it down.
I guess what I am trying to say is the door swings both ways. In other words, the stakehorse's hands sometimes aren't clean either, ESPECIALLY in recent years, as is my observation. :yes:
In the end, Celtic, your math calculations and analogies might hold true to the non-pool-playing public, but we're talking about pool here, and all logic goes out the window when it comes to action sometimes. I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to staked games.
When I had my arrangement, I knew everyone who could play. Now there are 1000 people that play who I don't know.
It was the same cast at every Texas Express tourney, Lutman, Franco, Oaks, Mccaniach, Adkins, Breedlove, Brumback, Paey.
In the same sense if the horse still ran now he would have to go even cheaper than he used to because of all the new players.
It was the same cast at every Texas Express tourney, Lutman, Franco, Oaks, Mccaniach, Adkins, Breedlove, Brumback, Paey.
In the same sense if the horse still ran now he would have to go even cheaper than he used to because of all the new players.
That's pretty well said.
I remember a few stakehorses who couldn't play at all and would be the loudest people in the room on who they would put up against you or they could call someone. Many times these people would end up dying a lonely death because they could no longer be the center of attention and their money got short.
In all my dealings with my friend/horse, I would have been happy to break even, the experiences we had were so much fun that if I can have those experiences and end up with the same amount of money I started with, than I'm richer for the experience.
I remember a few stakehorses who couldn't play at all and would be the loudest people in the room on who they would put up against you or they could call someone. Many times these people would end up dying a lonely death because they could no longer be the center of attention and their money got short.
In all my dealings with my friend/horse, I would have been happy to break even, the experiences we had were so much fun that if I can have those experiences and end up with the same amount of money I started with, than I'm richer for the experience.
I guess, Celtic, it's kind of like when forum posters write that pro players are homeless bums with no medical insurance and should not complain, thereby getting themselves a "real job" that my thoughts come into play as it pertains to this thread here.
The same can be said for the stakehorse. Believe it or not, Celtic, there are various categories of stakehorses, just like there are pro players. Some stakehorses only want to stake pro players in an effort to be the center of attention. Their psyche thrives on it, and since they can't play pool well enough to be a pro player, this is their foot in the door, so to speak. In fact, it's more like being a controller. They want to control the situation and have people bow down to them for their mighty gesture of being the stakehorse. :bow-down:
To this kind of stakehorse, money is god, and all else are beneath them. This stakehorse believes that anyone who has money or deep pockets warrants respect -- in fact, demands respect of everyone as if the stakehorse is some sort of royalty. This is the manner they carry themselves, and the truth of the matter is that the pool players wouldn't have one thing to do with them if it wasn't for that money, so they suck up, sad to say but true. Meanwhile, this type of stakehorse is the mirror image of The Emperor's New Clothes, and the poor saps don't even realize it. Maybe they do and still do it anyway, just to get that attention. :smilewinkgrin:
I have even heard of games being made, with the stakehorse pulling up at the last minute, throwing a monkey wrench in the entire operation. It kind of sucks when this happens for all involved, but, once again, this breed of stakehorse likes to be in control like a manipulating puppeteer. :frown:
Then there are stakehorses who get funny with the money when the players wins. All previously made agreements go out the window, and the pool player who played his/her heart out all night long to win the cheese ends up getting a peanut, while the stakehorse keeps the majority of the win. If you don't think this is upsetting to the pool player, you're wrong.
People write ad nauseum on this forum about dumps, as if they know something. Meanwhile, they usually don't know squat and hear tales through the grapevine. Well, people should hear the stories about the stakehorses who rip off the pool player. Then maybe they'd understand the whole picture. A stakehorse who rips off a pool player after the fact is just as guilty as a pool player who dumps.
Sure, it's a free shot at the money for the pool player when he/she is getting staked, but the pool player is working for that won money by shooting under pressure for hours at a time, sometimes days, trying to win, while the stakehorse, in reality, sat back and enjoyed the show.
There are for sure some good stakehorses out there, as there are good pool players who enjoy action and getting staked. It should be a business arrangement, though, and all parties should agree on the percentage each is going to receive BEFOREHAND. That's the way it's supposed to be done.
I could recite a horror story about how a stakehorse tried to give my counterpart 20 percent after he won $2,500 in snooker action at $300 a game. The initial agreement before my counterpart won the cheese was 50/50. It didn't go down very well when after my counterpart won, the stakehorse handed him $500. The stakehorse was known in the past to talk about using physical force at times to make things right for him. Do you think the pool player wants to get in an argument with this kind of stakehorse for money? :ignore:
Screw the odds. If you make an agreement, then stick with it.
If a pool players doesn't like the offer of 20 percent from the stakehorse, then it is his/her prerogative to turn it down.
I guess what I am trying to say is the door swings both ways. In other words, the stakehorse's hands sometimes aren't clean either, ESPECIALLY in recent years, as is my observation. :yes:
In the end, Celtic, your math calculations and analogies might hold true to the non-pool-playing public, but we're talking about pool here, and all logic goes out the window when it comes to action sometimes. I've seen the good, the bad, and the ugly when it comes to staked games.
Why keep rehasing this bull$hit
What is the freaking need to keep rehashing the bull$hit about players not being able to make a living out of the game we love? Can't we just accept the M&*$$%& facts?
What is the freaking need to keep rehashing the bull$hit about players not being able to make a living out of the game we love? Can't we just accept the M&*$$%& facts?
Last edited: