What are the tricks/patterns to playing runout 8 ball?

DAVE_M

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
9 ball, 10 ball, 14.1, and even 1 Pocket have tricks and patterns to win the cheese;
What are the tricks/patterns to playing runout 8 ball? Bustamante said it on TAR, 8 ball is hard. It isn't any more difficult than the former, but it is still difficult.
I've been playing for roughly 7 years now, in all that time only two people have taught me the in's and out's of 9ball and 1 Pocket. I've put together a 3 pack in 9 ball 1 time and made a ball on the break and run 12 and out in 1P a few times. I'm a self-taught 14.1 player, with a not so impressive high run of 34. However, when I get to 8 ball, I can't get a 2 pack with perfect conditions and the pool gods shining on me.
I don't know of anyone locally that is willing to teach me the ways of 8 ball. Everyone I know of is either a 1P or 9ball player, that just so happens to shoot well enough in 8 ball.

Is there some secret to running 8 ball racks, that I don't know about?
 

West Point 1987

On the Hill, Out of Gas
Silver Member
The easiest rule of thumb in 8 ball is to first choose the correct suit that has the easiest run/least problem balls. Then pick the key ball that sets up the 8. Then, start at one end of the table and run them out before moving to the other end...work your run in sets of three. Plot your breakout shots on clusters and don't miss an opportunity to develop the pattern. Then, make it a habit to forget about side pockets...you'd be surprised at how many patterns dead end once you take an easy side pocket off...save them for trouble balls if you must, but think in terms of the corners and you'll stay in line more often than not. I like to use side pockets to transition from one end of the table to the next pattern. It's also helpful to try and get a leave that puts you in the middle of large, loose groupings. It can be a mistake to try and pick off groupings from the outside-in; work from inside the guts of a cluster, it keeps you in line with more choices if you get a bad roll. Move the CB as little as absolutely necessary. This has worked well for me whether on a BB or a 9 footer. :thumbup:
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
9 ball, 10 ball, 14.1, and even 1 Pocket have tricks and patterns to win the cheese;
What are the tricks/patterns to playing runout 8 ball? Bustamante said it on TAR, 8 ball is hard. It isn't any more difficult than the former, but it is still difficult.
I've been playing for roughly 7 years now, in all that time only two people have taught me the in's and out's of 9ball and 1 Pocket. I've put together a 3 pack in 9 ball 1 time and made a ball on the break and run 12 and out in 1P a few times. I'm a self-taught 14.1 player, with a not so impressive high run of 34. However, when I get to 8 ball, I can't get a 2 pack with perfect conditions and the pool gods shining on me.
I don't know of anyone locally that is willing to teach me the ways of 8 ball. Everyone I know of is either a 1P or 9ball player, that just so happens to shoot well enough in 8 ball.

Is there some secret to running 8 ball racks, that I don't know about?

I'm just going to copy and paste what I've said before :

Although the following was built from bar box 8-ball, it certainly applies to larger table 8-ball as well:

Aside from all of the other excellent advice, IMO nothing helps the bar box game better than watching the better amateur players and playing a lot of bar box 8-ball.

On the other hand:

Excerpts from Freddie's Idiot Guide to Runout Barbox 8-ball:



Leaving your balls in the center of the table as your last or nearly last balls isn't a good idea for two reasons:

1) It limits your pathways for your cueball

2) positionally speaking, it is more challenging to get the proper angle on a ball in the center of the table.

It's easy to see why number 2 is true when the table is full of balls; it's tougher to see why it's a challenge when you only have your balls left.

To further this point, the ball in the center of the table, but closer to one of the side rails always looks tempting to use as a last ball. Player's will lose just because of this temptation more often then they'll ever dream.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Ways to screw up a ball-in-hand runout in 8-ball (barbox or otherwise):
  • The number one way a ball-in-hand out in 8-ball is botched is by leaving the object balls in the center of the table as the last balls. The balls in the center of the table block path routes, and are deceptively challenging when the "proper angle" is needed to get to the 8-ball.
  • The number two way to botch a ball-in-hand runout is to leave hanging balls until the last balls. IMO, there's little reason to take hangers out late.
  • The number three way to botch a ball-in-hand runout is to leave two balls side-by-side in the same pocket, as opposed to just leaving one ball as the last ball before the 8-ball. If you just take one out earlier, the there is no "which one do you have to get on first" failure mode.
  • The number four way to botch up a ball-in-hand runout is stick too tightly to the "clear all balls from one side of the table" misconception. I cant' recall where this idea is ever correct, yet so many people bring it up as if there's some sanity to it.
  • The number five way to botch up a ball-in-hand runout is try too hard to set yourself into rules. These are just guidelines.

---------------------------------------------------------------
The progression of 8-ball skill level seems to go like the following list, from beginner to advanced. Knowing where you are today gives an idea where your game can be tomorrow:

Shoot at anything regardless of runout possibilities.
Shoot at anything, except for balls hanging in the pockets.
Play safeties when you can't run out.
Play safeties, bunting balls around, even when you can run out.
Realize that leaving the hanging balls is the worst thing for your game.
Realize that knocking in the hanging ball and using it to gain position makes for more runouts.
Realize that other people are running out on you while you're bunting around.
Go for the runout nearly every time when it's available.

----------------------------------------
Play tournaments.

Additionally, stay and watch the tournament after you get knocked out. Learning what and how the winner wins is virtually free learning (minus drinking). For 8-ball tournaments, check out where the winner is on the list above. Normally, it's the last one listed.

-----------------------------------------
If you find yourself complaining about handicaps, you're in leagues for the wrong reason.

----------------------------------------

Sometimes, some days, you're just going to suck. That's life.

On a related note,

Be honest with yourself. Your best day at the table isn't the definition of your game. Neither is your worst game. The definition of your game is about 75% of your best game.

Freddie <~~~ experienced Idiot
 

stljohnny

knowledge > execution. :(
Silver Member
The only "trick" I know for 8-ball is that when you come to the table, you have to decide before you start shooting if you're going to go for the runout. If you ARE going to run-out, then you have to choose your key-ball (the last ball before the 8). That ball is determined by where the 8 lays, and which ball offers the best position to make the 8. From there, you essentially work the rack backwards, assuming there are no clusters. Also, if you go for the runout - you pretty much MUST get out, cuz after you clear half or more of your balls away, and miss, the table is wide open for your opponent.

In general, the "guideline" is to work one side of the table, then the other. Try not to go up and down if you don't have to. Don't run into balls if you dont have to. If you have a cluster, decide as early as possible if you're going to play a safe or go for the break-out. When you go into a cluster, make sure you have an "insurance" ball - a ball in your suite that you can shoot if you don't get a shot from the cluster.

I'd be interesting in reading other people's opinions as well, since I consider 8-ball my weakest game.
 
9 ball, 10 ball, 14.1, and even 1 Pocket have tricks and patterns to win the cheese;
What are the tricks/patterns to playing runout 8 ball? Bustamante said it on TAR, 8 ball is hard. It isn't any more difficult than the former, but it is still difficult.
I've been playing for roughly 7 years now, in all that time only two people have taught me the in's and out's of 9ball and 1 Pocket. I've put together a 3 pack in 9 ball 1 time and made a ball on the break and run 12 and out in 1P a few times. I'm a self-taught 14.1 player, with a not so impressive high run of 34. However, when I get to 8 ball, I can't get a 2 pack with perfect conditions and the pool gods shining on me.
I don't know of anyone locally that is willing to teach me the ways of 8 ball. Everyone I know of is either a 1P or 9ball player, that just so happens to shoot well enough in 8 ball.

Is there some secret to running 8 ball racks, that I don't know about?
Get Phil Cappelle's Play Your Best 8 Ball book, every possible strategy and shot is discussed. I hear the 8 Ball Bible is good, never read it. Reading these books will let you read tge table and be confident in your decisions.
 

Jude Rosenstock

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A common tricky shot that comes-up in 8-ball is a "ticky". Say you're solids and there's a stripe near the corner pocket. You can sometimes carom the solid off the stripe by going rail-first. That's a ticky. These scenarios are more common in 8ball since in the other games, you'd probably just play a combination.
 

ronscuba

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Any tips for playing 8 ball with ball handicaps ?

In my league the handicap is balls and they come off the table at the end. For example a handicap 8 playing a handicap 6. The 6 shoots all their balls except the last 2. They take off the last 2 and then shoot for the 8.

It's frustrating because the lower handicap player can cluster your balls, leave them to the end, then pull them and shoot for the 8.
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
It gets wayyy more specific than this...

9 ball, 10 ball, 14.1, and even 1 Pocket have tricks and patterns to win the cheese;
What are the tricks/patterns to playing runout 8 ball? Bustamante said it on TAR, 8 ball is hard. It isn't any more difficult than the former, but it is still difficult.
I've been playing for roughly 7 years now, in all that time only two people have taught me the in's and out's of 9ball and 1 Pocket. I've put together a 3 pack in 9 ball 1 time and made a ball on the break and run 12 and out in 1P a few times. I'm a self-taught 14.1 player, with a not so impressive high run of 34. However, when I get to 8 ball, I can't get a 2 pack with perfect conditions and the pool gods shining on me.
I don't know of anyone locally that is willing to teach me the ways of 8 ball. Everyone I know of is either a 1P or 9ball player, that just so happens to shoot well enough in 8 ball.

Is there some secret to running 8 ball racks, that I don't know about?

Although it gets way more specific than this, first, don't try to runout if you don't have the runout. If you're going to play safe, try and do it early in the rack while breaking out your problem balls if possible. If you're strictly talking about playing runout eightball, then it's a bit different.

You want to have sitting ducks and multiple options when you do go for a breakout. You obviously want to go for the solids or stripes that have the best layout, few or no blocked balls.

You have to have excellent cue ball control. People in nineball and even a little to a lesser extent in one hole, can play area shape, but when you HAVE to break out the balls correctly or lose, you have to be able to play pinpoint shape.

Some of the better players at one hole, will be the better runout players in eightball and vice versa.

Jaden
 

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Without reading previous posts..
Stopshot to stopshot.
Angles to 1 fit whitey in there. 2 break up cluster.FROM THE CORRECT SIDE.
Plan where 8 is going before you start.
MAKE BALLS ON THD BREAK.DONT MISS. .
 

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
• Get the stripes-or-solids group where the problems are all solvable
(meaning a tricky tied-up ball has another ball nearby that naturally breaks it up).
I'd rather have a group with 2 solvable problems than a group with 1 problem and no natural way to deal with it.

• Don't ever risk getting hooked while trying to play aggressive position, unless you have a "plan B" shot available.
"Too long" you can deal with. "Too thin" you can deal with. Even on the rail can be dealt with. Hooked = game over.
Especially on a barbox, don't be afraid to settle a bit on shape, if it means you have the right angle and 0 risk of hook.

• Just because a ball is near the side, doesn't mean you have to play it there. In fact thats where a lot of players
get into trouble. Getting funny on a side pocket shot means moving the cue ball up and down the whole table
weaving through traffic. That's the kind of risky stuff that ends runs. Plan for mostly corner pocket shots.
This goes double on the barbox. Move the cue ball less.

• If you start with ball in hand, solve your biggest problem with it. Don't play position to solve the problem later.
Solve it right now. With your ball in hand. Many runouts are blown by people getting too cute,
trying to sink a ball or two before dealing with their problem.

• As others have said, don't miss. 9-ball gets people used to 2-way shots where missing is sometimes safe,
the opponent is left long or even hooked. In 8-ball a miss is much worse. If you're gonna risk a missable shot,
do it early in the rack.
 

George Fels

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Read the late Randi Givens' "The 8-Ball Bible"; read Larry Schwartz' column in our magazine. Schwartz recommends planning your entire run-out from the 8-ball backwards, and not even TRYING to run out the game unless you're absolutely certain that you will. Not that you "can", but that you "will." Hope this helps.
 

decent dennis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Rule number 1: After establishing your ball's If you can't make the table better for yourself ( either it's runnable or not) do not make another ball. Think of it as a war, every ball you take off the table (if you cant run out) makes your opponet stronger.
 

Lynch

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
IMO "The 8 Ball Bible" is the best book out there and I either own or have read most of them. You said you were a straight pool player and that should be helpful because pattern play is similar. What is a hanger in 9 ball is not in straight pool because you are constantly trying to leave yourself simple shots.....Just like in straight pool you need to attack clusters early and if possible, have a ball or 2 as a safety net so if the breakout doesn't go as planned, you have something easy to shoot. Furthermore, avoid going into the back of clusters where your hope of survival is minimal....Also, like someone else mentioned, attack balls in the middle of the table as early as possible because they will burn you often......I actually did it the opposite and grew up with 8ball and have only been playing straight pool for a couple years so my patterns in straight pool need alot of work but they are getting better. If you play a good pattern with your last 5 or 6 balls or more in straight pool, it will be connect the dots to the key ball. Well, in 8ball it can be the same way if you pick the right pattern, the game is a whole lot easier. Most if not everything that I've said has probably already been mentioned because I didn't read most of the posts but hope that helps
 

8onthebreak

THE WORLD IS YOURS
Silver Member
Patterns and soldiers

A great 8 ball player is great because he finds the easiest pattern, not because he's a better executer. 8 ball is chess, running out isn't as important as moving the pieces into position. it is a game of patience. Some suggestions...
1. Never break out a cluster if you don't have to. Usually the balls will go into A pocket, you need precision cue ball control to get the position, but breaking them out leads to scratches, and many times, no shot after.
2. Find a pattern that is easy to run out, involving NO draw. Top is much more predictable. Start with the 8 ball, and work your way backwards to find the best pattern...your last shot before the eight should be an easy stop shot, with easy shot on the eight. The shot before that should be an easy stop shot with position for an easy shot on the setup ball...etc. work backwards thru the rack and if you pick the pattern out correctly, a b player should be able to run it out almost every time.
3. Clear your trouble balls early, this includes any balls on the rail or in a cluster.
4. Never shoot your ducks in. They are like soldiers fighting for you. Theres 4 reasons for this. They are an easy shot from anywhere and give you easy position for almost any shot on the table. Also, It will be difficult for anyone to play a safe on you if you have hangers on the table, and they block pockets so your opponent can't use the pocket.
5. Look at clusters as a golden opportunity. A cluster is absolutely THE BEST environment to play a safe into. Always look at the cluster, and determine how u can hit a ball in the cluster, freeing that ball, and stop the cue ball inside the cluster or behind it, acquiring an easy ball in hand. Plan, get position for the safe, and take the safety shot, wait for ball in hand or an easy runout with the cluster now being makeable since u removed the tough ball. Clusters are your friend. :grin:
6. Don't move the cue ball, settle for short side shape, nice, easy...there's no long shots on the table, so any shot is an easy shot if you are even remotely in shape.
7. If you are less than 70% sure you'll make the shot...start looking for a safety. If you can't find a safe with significantly better odds of success, take the shot.
8. Gently bump opponents balls to the rail, and especcially away from the side pocket when possible. A hanger in the side pocket can win you a game cuz its guaranteed position to anywhere on the table...however, a ball on the rail next to the side pocket has about a 30% chance of costing a good player the game. If the opportunity presents itself to make one of your hangers in the side pocket, off of his duck, and move his duck to the rail...you've just put the odds in your favor to return to the table if you should make a mistake.
9. Don't shoot hard...it's an unnecessary risk.
10. Don't shoot soft...it's an unnecessary table roll risk.
11 Patience, patience, patience. :thumbup:
 
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hustlefinger

Registered User
Silver Member
I'd only say one thing. When making a ball, *PLAY POSITION* for a specific ball. To many players play general position for several balls. Have a plan.

on another note, wow, I haven't posted here in many many years. A lot of old names are starting to pop up. George Fels, sjm, cornerman, Jude... don't you guys have a enough info to start playing by now. j/k

Rick
 
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