What do you do here?

I don't like my chances-

(note: my response is without reading those of other posters/nor influenced by logic or good sense.)

but you have to shoot something and try to get lucky....

I'm shooting the cb at the near point of the upper side pocket with just rolling center top at medium-soft speed, just enough to send the 5 to the bottom long rail, after a full hit on the 5 coming off the bottom short rail, to avoid the underneath scratch.

The kick contact point on the rail adjacent to the 5 is very close to the extended similar point on the opposite short rail, extending the cb path to that rail, and shooting at the upper long rail center diamond. It's close enough to swing at it with a widening angle speed adjustment.

I think you hit the 5. Scratch off the 5? hit it full? get lucky?

I don't see much else. I wanted a 3 rail kick to the 5, but only see 2 legs of it.

......

Now I'll go look at what the real answer is.

Joey-

Nice shot! and good fortune favored the brave. I think I better rewatch Little Joe's dvd.

That was a tough shot choice to commit to; not much room to avoid the 10 going in, and jacked up over the 7 to hit the cb. One that you may remember for a while. Kudos.
 
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Score was 6-6, racing to 7.

JoeyA said:

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I found myself in this predicament with Rob Saez. I was torn to pieces, knowing that if I missed making the 5 ball, I would probably leave Rob an easy shot. If I missed hitting the 5 ball, I would surely be up the creek.

I practice the two rail kick illustrated below which is from the DVD by Joe Villalpondo of www.pooliq.net. I KNEW I could at least hit the 5 ball in my heart of hearts. Wasn't sure that I could make it but I was VERY SURE that I could hit it and might get lucky and make it. Finally after counting the diamonds for the umpteenth time, I mustered all my courage and put the best stroke on it that I could being jacked up like that.

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Rob had the 5 ball straight in but the table rolls off slightly at slow speeds, so he jacks up and puts some stun follow on the cue ball and misses the 5 which allows me to run out the three balls and win the game and match. Score was 6-6. If shot that shot at slow to slow medium speed he would also have missed the shot.

Rob got a chance to pay me back later in the tournament and spanked me 7-3. :p
 
RunoutJJ said:
This is exactly the right shot to take!! Anything else would require a ton of luck to not leave your opponent out.
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Kicking 2 rails to make the 5 would sell out way more times then not as well unless you happen to make the 5. If you hit the ball to thin you sell out, if you hit it too thick you need to hit it hard enough to come off the long rail and come back hopefully under the 10 while the ciueball travels up table. If you are hitting it hard enough to get more likely to get the safe you can actually scratch in the lower right hand corner off of the 5.

Nothing here is a good chance of a safety, if you miss the 5 close when trying to make it on the 2 rail kick you have sold out for sure. Not to mention you are trying to hit only 1/4 of the ball off of that second rail, maybe abit less, I have seen so many amature miss the whole ball trying to make that 5 and sell out the ball in hand and assured loss. For Efren? Ya 2 rails, for most humans? The outlook is less likely to be positive.
 
Celtic said:
Kicking 2 rails to make the 5 would sell out way more times then not as well unless you happen to make the 5. If you hit the ball to thin you sell out, if you hit it too thick you need to hit it hard enough to come off the long rail and come back hopefully under the 10 while the ciueball travels up table. If you are hitting it hard enough to get more likely to get the safe you can actually scratch in the lower right hand corner off of the 5.

Nothing here is a good chance of a safety, if you miss the 5 close when trying to make it on the 2 rail kick you have sold out for sure. Not to mention you are trying to hit only 1/4 of the ball off of that second rail, maybe abit less, I have seen so many amature miss the whole ball trying to make that 5 and sell out the ball in hand and assured loss. For Efren? Ya 2 rails, for most humans? The outlook is less likely to be positive.
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If you miss thick, the 5 banks to the center of the rail and the cue ball goes up table either leaving a very tough cut or a long bank, neither of which your opponent is going to like. He will most likely play safe which will get you back to the table. Also, its unlikely that you will miss thin. If you miss thin you will probably miss the whole ball, so just miss thick.
 
JoeyA said:

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It's ten ball and it's your shot. Too fast Dogsplayingpool...
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If it's hill-hill, I would walk over to the tournament board. If I won and Johnny Archer would be my next opponent and if I lost and you would be my next opponent, I would rake the table and congratulate my oppenent on his victory.


Chris



Ps. Mainly cause I always wanted to play you.
 
Celtic said:
Kicking 2 rails to make the 5 would sell out way more times then not as well unless you happen to make the 5. If you hit the ball to thin you sell out, if you hit it too thick you need to hit it hard enough to come off the long rail and come back hopefully under the 10 while the ciueball travels up table. If you are hitting it hard enough to get more likely to get the safe you can actually scratch in the lower right hand corner off of the 5.

Nothing here is a good chance of a safety, if you miss the 5 close when trying to make it on the 2 rail kick you have sold out for sure. Not to mention you are trying to hit only 1/4 of the ball off of that second rail, maybe abit less, I have seen so many amature miss the whole ball trying to make that 5 and sell out the ball in hand and assured loss. For Efren? Ya 2 rails, for most humans? The outlook is less likely to be positive.
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i think i still like a ceterball hit on the 5 from the 2 rail kick and send it 2 rails to top of table
 
There is more than one way to skin a cat; Most replies have been with the idea that you must hit the five.

A different line of thought maybe...

You are in such a pickle that it will be hard to hit to kick the five and control the five ball. How about cutting the seven into the long rail then the end rail to tie up the 5. Yes, if you are success he will take ball in hand and play a safe that will most likely freeze you to the 7. But there are other avenues if that happens. You are almost in this same spot now with the length of the table involved. Make him put you there again and give him a chance to make a mistake. and you might have a shorter kick.

Not the best of ideas... I Know, Just an idea
 
I would go always for the 2rail shot. If it s on a table i really know (conditions, long/short etc) i would try to hit it a bit thicker from behind (full/1/2 Ball hit) because you have good chances to let your opponent a hard/longer shot. To try to cut it a bit thinner is more dangerous in my opinion.

The shot Neil shown up with draw using 1 rail is also too dangerous in my opinion-too many things has to be perfect (speed, cloth etc). Very hard to calculate this shot.

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lg
Ingo
 
I think the most valuable thing I've done for my game is to watch countless accustats matches. Several of the diagrams I see in this thread are shots I never see the pros choose.

It's funny because I know for a fact that some of the players that diagrammed shots here would torture me but I would make a huge bet with them that if we set up the shot and had various pros stop by and shoot from there with an incentive if they can win the game I would bet a lot that they would go two rails for the kick safe more times than bending one rail with draw or hitting the end rail first jacked up.

It's a shame that more top pros don't chime in on these more often.
 
They left enough...... Dart Jump with left english (jump masse)..... you make the ball or leave them tough 4 out of 5..... If you don't see the shot I am betting you own a jump break and not a dedicated dart jumper...... Or you voted that jump cues should be illegal..........
 
Luxury said:
I think the most valuable thing I've done for my game is to watch countless accustats matches. Several of the diagrams I see in this thread are shots I never see the pros choose.

It's funny because I know for a fact that some of the players that diagrammed shots here would torture me but I would make a huge bet with them that if we set up the shot and had various pros stop by and shoot from there with an incentive if they can win the game I would bet a lot that they would go two rails for the kick safe more times than bending one rail with draw or hitting the end rail first jacked up.

It's a shame that more top pros don't chime in on these more often.
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I think the players who would do the kick curve are probably more used to bar boxes. On a barbox it might be the right shot because if you hit it, it has a high chance of going in and 2 rail kicking the 5 to the center of the rail with the cue ball up table isn't much of a safety on a barbox. On a 9 footer the 2 railer is a much stronger shot. Good luck getting it to curve as diagrammed on a 9 footer, not to mention you'll more than likely sell out.
 
BarneyCalip said:
I don't know how to use Wei, hope my cutting and paste looks okay. ..., Barney
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You just need to paste the link differently. After you copy it, click the blue box in the area above the post entry area, the one that says 'wei' and paste there, inbetween the brackets (appears without the '.'):
[.WEI]Paste Here[/WEI.]
 
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Luxury said:
I think the most valuable thing I've done for my game is to watch countless accustats matches. Several of the diagrams I see in this thread are shots I never see the pros choose.

It's funny because I know for a fact that some of the players that diagrammed shots here would torture me but I would make a huge bet with them that if we set up the shot and had various pros stop by and shoot from there with an incentive if they can win the game I would bet a lot that they would go two rails for the kick safe more times than bending one rail with draw or hitting the end rail first jacked up.

It's a shame that more top pros don't chime in on these more often.
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Lux.....You need to try the kick/draw shot.
Every good player has this hit in their repertoire.
Instead of flirting with hitting the 10-ball. this approach gives you the
'big ball' to hit.....you still have the two rail hit going for you if you don't
draw it enough.

.if you hit draw/right (5 o'clock) you can aim BELOW the middle diamond.
(don't hit it real hard, gotta give the cue-ball time to bite into the rail)

experiment with this hit and report back,please
regards
pt
 
BarneyCalip said:
http://pool.bz/P/?@4EOKK1GGxx4JATR1PEuV1kEuV2kbRV4kLhJ3katJ1kEuX1kEuX2kaWG4kLYI4kLYJ4kLIK4kLpF4kLYI@

I don't know how to use Wei, hope my cutting and paste looks okay.

Two problems here is that you need to aim the que ball to hit where the pocket is. If you just hit to the inside of the point with running english, you should be able to hit the 5 ball and make it. Second problem with this shot is the 10 ball in the way?

I was taught this method from Hal Mix to bank balls into a pocket this way. I know it is in a lot of books. I play a lot of One Pocket and I modified the system to kick at balls. Once you get the hang of it you can hit either side of the ball, hymmm? Now if that darn pocket wasn't in the way no contest, Barney
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I'll try this one time to see if it illustrates your diagram. I just copied your red link and clicked on the blue wei icon above and pasted your link between where the cursor was blinking. I'm curious about your diagram.

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pt109 said:
That's MY choice, Neil.
...and don't hit it too hard, the draw off the rail won't take.....
...medium speed gets it.

...if the rails are dead, 123's option should be considered...:dance:
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But the CB stays down table with a low % shot on the 7.... If you two rail kick the cue ball is going up table for sure and you do one of two things make the 5 or get safe.
 
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