What Happened To All Of The Good Old House Cues?

[Biloxi Boy]

Maybe you cats in the big cities had a different experience, but where I was playing coming up, two piece cues were rare as hen's teeth. When someone came in with one, play would stop and we would approach the newcomer and ask about the cue and admire the hell out of it. "How'd you get it? How much was it?" Looking back, we were downright rude, but I suspect those early owners of personal cues must have become accustomed to such attention very quickly. I cannot imagine folks acting like that today -- but in our defense, we could not help ourselves.

I bet I looked at least ten break-down (an old term there) cues before one generous fellow allowed me to get one in my hands. There was no offer, however, to allow me to hit a ball or two, and I sure did not ask.

 

[Z-Nole]

Just before Mike Andros passed away he gave me two brand new house cues. I let the kids use one of them and the other is hanging on the wall in hopes of one day doing something with it. Make a custom, a jump cue or something. I just like having it.

If BBB happens to see this thread- I waited for Mike's wife to mourn her loss k owing that she had planned to sell those beautiful cues of yours. Unfortunately I was out of town when she came into the hall and someone else scarfed them up. I tried to buy that Joss West that is a sister cue to mine but he wanted an arm and a leg. Oh well...would've been nice.

 

[Black-Balled]

A lot of the ggod ones were found to have their cores stolen. It was horrible for those who bought them for pennies on the dollar, in hope of making a conversion.

But on the bright side, the dowels fit easily.

 

[maha]

most went to the new table owners when the pool rooms closed down or sold off some of their tables.
we remember the best ,in fact most of all the old house cues werent very good at all.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

I think you have to go by the time in commenting on house cue quality. In the 60's and early 70's, the quality of house cues was good. After that, they began to slide.

 

[TATE]

Does anybody know anything about the Katz Cues out of New York? A lot of the Palmer bar cues (4 points, no veneers) were made from their blanks. They made one piece house cues.

I've seem some pretty oddball house cues - there were lots of different brands out there before the imports. Bert Schrager made my friend one piece wall cues somehow - they were pretty expensive. I imagine you need a pretty good sized lathe to make them. Maybe Joey can tell us.

Here are my wall cues - Old carved handle Brunswick early 1900's ebony splice shaft, Michael Dertzo cue, New Haven CT (probably a Brunswick re-labeled), unknown early wedge cue, couple Dufferin's vintage 1995, and a cheap modern import.

 

[WildWing]

Does anybody know anything about the Katz Cues out of New York? A lot of the Palmer bar cues (4 points, no veneers) were made from their blanks. They made one piece house cues.

I'm pretty sure a lot of second catalog Palmer A and B models were made from Katz cues. I believe both rosewood and ebony were common. As you said, likely, no veneers.

Just a little tidbit, when Katz was through, cuemaker Jerry Rauenzahn bought up all his supply of ebony wood. It had been seasoned so long, that Jerry could make full splices and 360 type cues, using that ebony, without having to core it out at all, and no weight bolt. I still have one of those full splice cues. Original ebony, decades old, from Katz.

All the best,
WW

 

[TATE]

I'm pretty sure a lot of second catalog Palmer A and B models were made from Katz cues. I believe both rosewood and ebony were common. As you said, likely, no veneers.

Just a little tidbit, when Katz was through, cuemaker Jerry Rauenzahn bought up all his supply of ebony wood. It had been seasoned so long, that Jerry could make full splices and 360 type cues, using that ebony, without having to core it out at all, and no weight bolt. I still have one of those full splice cues. Original ebony, decades old, from Katz.

All the best,
WW

Thanks - good info, I saw some of Jerry's 360's, they were fantastic.

 

[magnetardo]

Brunswick Titlists have become in vogue, people convert em. They make great playing Cues.

The Oak Titilsts bring crazy price. But the are the hardest to find.

Pretty sure the ebony Titlists are the rarest.

 

[pt109]

Pretty sure the ebony Titlists are the rarest.

I feel the old time butts were too thick to use ebony....too much weight.
I had a Hoppe and a Rambo ebony cue...they were both over 22 oz.

 

[jimmyg]

Two stories...

The first pool room that I played in was a local 4 table room on the Lower East Side of NYC, late 60s. Like most rooms, John's only had the standard one piece house cues, but I found the one that I liked, about 19oz, firm, and straight as an arrow. After about a year he had either sold or was closing the place but before the doors were locked forever I asked John, the owner, if I can have the cue, and he agreed. It must have been around midnight and I was taking the F train home to Queens, cue in hand. Probably somewhere near the 42nd station some guy comes up to me in the train and asks me if I wanted to go to Ames and play a little, I politely declined. I don't know what I was thinking since I doubt that would ever carry around a one piece cue and the thought of converting it never entered my mind. Just the same, went into the service and by the time I was discharged, it was gone.

After John's closed most of the crew moved over to Mike's, right around the corner on Avenue A and 6th Street...another small 7 table room, but a level higher in both equipment and players, and multi levels higher in cues. Mike had maybe 10 locked cue racks full of beautiful, in-laid, two piece cues, all different and all in perfect condition. Some of his regulars were allowed to choose and use one as his "private" cue and it wasn't long before I granted the privilege. I waivered between two different ones, one, I recall, had a very thin shaft, a little light, but still played firm, while the other was closer to a standard taper and 19 or 20oz...my preference at the time, both were beautifully balanced and the inlay work was beautiful. Shortly after returning from the service, I stopped by to say "hi' to whoever was still in the neighborhood and, aside from Mike, there wasn't a recognizable face in the room, in fact, the room was just about empty. Didn't stop by again for another year or two and when I did Mike's was no longer. Didn't give Mike's cues too much thought until about 25 years later when I started to play regularly again and began to learn a little about cues and cue makers...and ever since, I've wondered how many Babushka's, Palmer's, Rich's, and possibly Szamboti's were in that room...:shrug:

 

[Biloxi Boy]

I seem to recall a few house cues with single green? veneers -- definitely not like the multiple veneer Titlist. Does this ring a bell with anyone? If my memory is correct, these were good cues, very much along the lines of the older Brunswicks which we were accustomed to finding on the racks. It seems like these veneered cues did not remain very long when they did appear.

 

[mikemosconi]

Does anybody know anything about the Katz Cues out of New York? A lot of the Palmer bar cues (4 points, no veneers) were made from their blanks. They made one piece house cues.

I've seem some pretty oddball house cues - there were lots of different brands out there before the imports. Bert Schrager made my friend one piece wall cues somehow - they were pretty expensive. I imagine you need a pretty good sized lathe to make them. Maybe Joey can tell us.

Here are my wall cues - Old carved handle Brunswick early 1900's ebony splice shaft, Michael Dertzo cue, New Haven CT (probably a Brunswick re-labeled), unknown early wedge cue, couple Dufferin's vintage 1995, and a cheap modern import.

There was a Mike Dertzo- New haven Ct. cue on bay today- looked like a conversion to a 2 piece cue.

 

[johnnyjumpjump]

My Gold Crown I that I bought a few years ago came with quite a few cues - a Willie Hoppe, some McDermott C-series, an RC Custom, and some Brunswick Master Stroke cues; but my favorites were the nice straight Dufferin one-piece cues like the house cues I played with as a teenager. I have made 5 of them into Sneaky Pete's for gifts for kids/grandkids (and one for my own use).

 

[alphadog]

I went into a small town bar where I knew they had a couple snooker tables. My friend and I went to play snooker as there are no tables close by. The tables were old Brunswick 5x10 with pretty generous pockets and very worn cloth. This is a old room owned by a quite elderly man and his son who is taking over. They had 2 beers on tap and maybe 6 brands of bottled beer. Bags of chips and nothing else. Friend and I were only customers. The son was sitting at the bar with his dog sitting on the barstool next to him. They were watching a small old black and white TV. After a few games with my pool cue I looked at the bar cues in the wall racks looking for a snooker cue. I didn't find any but I did find 2 59" 4 point rosewood cues. That is not common for house cues especially old ones. Both were straight as a arrow. I offered the guy a 100 a piece for them. He said no . I asked well what would he take? He said they aren't for sale as someone may want to use them. I put them up and finished our game.
I went to the bar to pay for 3 bottles of beer and 2 hours of snooker. He said 11 dollars. I gave him a 20 and said keep it. He said thanks guess I will close up now.( it was 8:30) For those wondering this was 5 years ago! This was in a small college town and I can't believe it wasn't busy with those cheap prices.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

Reading over this, I have to wonder if anyone has heard anything from, or about, Chris. Anyone?

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Like most things when Pool Rooms closed, sold off cheap, were use as fire wood, sure some were put in wood chipper to recycle to saw dust, because no one knew they were being dumb. Hind sight is why we say should have.

 

[Cuebuddy]

Reading over this, I have to wonder if anyone has heard anything from, or about, Chris. Anyone?

I don't know Chris but have admired his knowledge on vintage cues. I believe he stopped through Colorado not long ago on a motorcycle/golf trip, I was in Europe at the time and missed a opportunity to cross paths with him. I believe Chris's interest changed directions not long ago and may be off to the next best things. Maybe not into the vintage cue thing anymore.

Its all good, the archived info that Chris graced us with is invaluable.

I have been collecting vintage cues for the last 30 years and have many old house cues. Some Dufferins, old Valleys, Brunswicks and many no name cues. If they are straight and in decent shape I will take them.

My plan is to convert many of them if I ever retire.


Cuebuddy>>> I also keep the beat up crooked cues I find too.

 

[maha]

i used to go around to all the pool rooms and buy or try to buy the good titlest house cues off the wall. most owners would sell as i paid more for them than a new plain cue. as the plain 4 point cues were 3 to 5 dollars and titlest cues were 5 to 8 dollars new to the pool room.

then off to palmer to transfrom them into what sells well. gene then made in his catalog the number #4 cue which was identical to what most of what i made, as it looked like a rambo.

 

[measureman]

I don't know Chris but have admired his knowledge on vintage cues. I believe he stopped through Colorado not long ago on a motorcycle/golf trip, I was in Europe at the time and missed a opportunity to cross paths with him. I believe Chris's interest changed directions not long ago and may be off to the next best things. Maybe not into the vintage cue thing anymore.

Its all good, the archived info that Chris graced us with is invaluable.

I have been collecting vintage cues for the last 30 years and have many old house cues. Some Dufferins, old Valleys, Brunswicks and many no name cues. If they are straight and in decent shape I will take them.

My plan is to convert many of them if I ever retire.


Cuebuddy>>> I also keep the beat up crooked cues I find too.

I didn't know you were a Meucci collector.