What Happened to the Local Pool Hall and Why We Can Forget Pro Pool as a Huge Sport

A glimmer of hope

(1)Problem is that with organizations they all soon seem to be full of people pulling in every direction at once and getting nowhere.

(2)It's going to take time to happen but no more time than it would have taken had we started in that direction five, ten, or thirty years ago.

(3)Too late for our generation, not too late to build something for the next one.

Hu
...I don't know you but, I sure do think your a very perceptive individual!

You mentioned Danny Medina, in your earlier post reply to JAM, did you frequent tournaments in the Denver area in the mid eighties? The reason I ask is, during that time there were small clusters of players and people that had GOALS for pro pool. If you were around then, perhaps you remember some of the pro players response's, to those different ideas. Usually a discussion began with what tables should these tournaments be played on. If you were from the South, most likely your answer was 7' bar boxes. From the North east or Ohio, Wisconsin, or Michigan, 9ft. Gold-crowns. If you were from out West, 'cause of Richie's tournaments, Golden West 8ft'ers. My point is that in the mid-eighties no one would agree on anything, and certainly not for (Your statement I've labeled) reason (3).

In any sport, IMO, this is the beginning point for ALL lasting organizations that help promote 5, 10, and 20 year plans for the growth and development of their chosen sport. Hence the abundance of experiences in the pro pool world that resemble statement (1).

Your (IMHO) perceptive statements (2 and 3) leads us to what little hope exists today, for the future of pro pool existing at all, in the near future. I hope there are others like you, that can and will, pick-up this kind of insight, and carry the pieces of what's left of this sport across "the finish line." Chanting the mantra as they do so, "for the good of the sport and the next generations success!"

The sad part of my post is, I quit this sport, that I do truly love, in 86. For all the reasons about everyone else does. My parting thoughts to my friends was, "the women will go farther than the men, cause they look better and there are so few of them, they'll have to stick together or disappear entirely! These (expletives, referring to a vast majority of top male pro's) would rather shoot themselves in the foot, than DO something good for the future of this sport! This whole thing is going nowhere! "C-ya!"

However, in 1998, both of my parents were diagnosed with terminal diseases at the same time. I moved to Tn. to help take of them at that time. When the stress for me became overwhelming, I went back to the one thing that always relaxed me, hitting balls. I had no intention to returning to the pro pool scene, but in shot order I found myself at the inaugural DCC and around a lot of my old friends and associates. For me, my fate was sealed at that moment. I adopted an attitude I had never possessed before, take pool as it comes, LOVE THE GAME, forget the personal politics. And I must say, for those like Pat Flemming and Gregg Sullivan who stuck to their original visions, there seemed, a new "LOOK" surrounding this sport. Unfortunately, as time has gone on, I've seen the skeletons are still in the closet of pro pool. I believe they'll be there until more folks believe as you've written, in those 2 excellent observations you've expressed in statements 2 and 3.

I truly wish, we could just add those beliefs to the cool-aid and give it to everyone involved in pro pool and pool in general, to drink!
Very insightful Post's! :cool::joyful:
 
no time to reply in depth

No time for full replies but some great posts in this thread recently. Thanks a bunch and I will comment this evening or in the morning, headed to a family event.

Hu
 
Here I go again with my 2 cents on this issue. Like old has been once said (God rest his soul) you can kill what's already dead. When casinos began to spread all over the country that was the end of the gambling world in pool.

There is only 3 things that will keep pool alive. 1. The proliferation of the game in China which I believe will soon offer enough tournaments for pros to make a living on. 2. Establishing college/high school pool associations. 3. Finding a business model for pool rooms that make them family (kid) friendly and do not rely so much on booze.

I have been beating this horse for a while.:deadhorse:

In the last 2 years I have introduced pool to several hundred kids in my school with dozens who I believe will be life long players.

Give the game to kids people its the future.
 
Really? THIS was an excellent post? He took 1000 words to say nothing.

I'll tell you exactly why we can forget pool as a huge sport and I can do it in seven words.

Pool is boring to non pool players.

Ding, ding, ding. I do believe we have a winner.

This is one of the two major items of denial so many pool players
either don't understand, or can't bring themselves to accept.

The other, pool is an activity that is stigmatized by the mainstream
culture. Pool players AT BEST are viewed in the same class as
race track touts.

Even poolplayers don't support pool as a spectator sport - they
will watch it on TV - IF it's FREE - and there is no wrestling.

Movies about pool can't draw flies either - unless they feature
Paul Newman in a staring role.

Put 'em both together - you've got the reason pool isn't headed
for success as a spectator activity.

As for Golf - it is about the same in terms of spectator interest, or
lack thereof.

The difference - advertizers feel the demographic that watches golf
is worth the cash investment - even tho viewership is beyond poor.

Dale
 
Last edited:
You wrote :

My definition of a professional competitor is someone that makes enough to have a decent living solely from competition. They may do other things but they don't have to in order to live decently. How many full time professionals in the US net more a year from competitions after expenses than they would flipping burgers forty hours a week?

I worked a regular job. After all of my living expenses I don't net more than that either. If someone can live on the road and save money they are doing well. No matter what job you have there are expenses involved. That is why teenagers have so much money to spend, they don't really have ay expenses if they are still living with their parents. All the money they make can be spent on what they want. If they work 20 hours a week at $7/ hour they have at least $100 to blow and that was more than I had per week after all of my expenses.

The problem with flipping burgers is you don't get to travel and see the world thru pool halls and you are not able to do as you wish.
 
Dale...Well, the viewership for The Masters sure isn't poor. It has huge numbers, broadcasting live all four days, on both broadcast and cable networks. As far as spectators, I've been to the tournament several times, and it is packed with rabid, yet polite, well-dressed fans. Now I know that's only one tournament...but it sure is a good one, and the winner gets paid almost 2 million dollars!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

As for Golf - it is about the same in terms of spectator interest, or
lack thereof.

The difference - advertizers feel the demographic that watches golf
is worth the cash investment - even tho viewership is beyond poor.

Dale
 
Double D said it's boring to watch for non-pool players. I agree. It can even be less than exciting for pool players. I've fallen asleep watching a lot of matches.

pdcue added that pool doesn't have the right demographic compared to golf for sponsors to rationalize a small audience and put it on TV anyway. I agree with that too, although the people who are really into golf far outnumber the people really into pool (as opposed to occasional, casual players).

But, as I see it, the main problem is that everyone, especially kids, has a lot of alternative entertainments that weren't there in the heyday of pool - hundreds of TV channels , online games, the internet, Facebook, Twitter, etc. etc. A lot more competition means less business for pool. I think it's as simple as that. And it doesn't help that pool requires a real investment of time to be able to play decently.

We can't turn back the clock and un-invent the competition. For that reason I don't see how pool can ever be big time again no matter what we try to do. Sorry to be so gloomy.
 
Celtic, Zbotiman, Mnorwood,

What we all seem to agree on is that pool has to be able to stand on it's on merit, not be supported by a sugar daddy or have the pool tables at a pool hall carried by the other things there. Any of your approaches could work if they were seriously applied by someone with a long term vision. The main thing is that we need to build pool from within pool working with a long term plan. Mark Griffin contacted me privately and he is already making real headway on a project similar to what I suggested. Those that are interested check out

http://www.playusapool.com/

Mnorwood,

Obviously you and some others are successful at getting tables in schools. It would be an extremely tough sell around here for the same reason it is tough to run a pool hall, square footage. The indoor space for PE is usually used for many things during the year with the equipment stored away taking little space when it isn't being used. The same space is used for many different things in the course of a school year. The pool tables must either remain in place or are expensive and time consuming to break down and store and then reinstall.

Zbotiman,

I'm going to send you a PM in the next day or three just to make your acquaintance.


Book,

Do remember that what was stated is my opinion and based on the standard I held myself and my pursuits to. No question of the intangible benefits of doing something we want to do instead of a job we don't like or plain hate. However let's make the assumption that our hypothetical pro pool player is a typical family man with a wife and two children. The expenses I was referring to were those incurred to compete. The added expenses of travel compared to living at home, entry fees, equipment, etc. After the player meets their business nut there has to be at least enough left over to pay fifty percent of the cost of a home mortgage, insurance, upkeep, a vehicle and the related expenses, the needs of the children, all the expenses any family has. This can be calculated on a yearly average or rolling three or five year average. However, if a person isn't making this much money from competition then the competition isn't a profession for that person in my opinion, it is a hobby that the person is making sacrifices to pursue. Note that this applies to many things not just pool.

The first major milestone I would like to see pro pool reach is to be able to support 100 pro's, male or female, at the level I define above. I consider a 64 player field a decent goal. All pro players won't make every tournament and I feel that a true pro tour should be able to deliver a decent field to a tour event. The hundredth ranked player should earn the amount defined above, obviously people higher in the rankings would make more, some much more.

I consider only a few pool players professional competitors today, not because of a lack of skills or effort and devotion given to the sport but because of a lack of opportunities. I don't think a dozen players in the US can meet my definition of a professional competitor. That isn't a poor reflection on them but the state that professional pool is in today.

I wrote the above yesterday. To hit the high points. Pool needs to build a professional division from within. While we can sit around and hope for a sugar daddy, billionaire, huge corporate sponsor, or pool becoming a fad for some reason, that is a lot like buying a ticket in a multi-million dollar lottery. It might happen but we need to be building something for ourselves while we hope for a miracle. Building from inside is much slower but a whole lot surer too if we decide to act.

Hu
 
I hate to keep say READ Willie's Game, but the book is not only about the life of Mosconi it also chronicles Pool, and why Pool has been on a steady decline since the year of Willies Birth 1913.
 
Back
Top