What is an amateur? Galveston World Classic Guidelines.

Bigtruck

Bigtruck

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I just saw this on the GWC website.

http://www.theworldclassic.com/tournament-announcements/amateur-player-eligibility-clarified.html


There are only 128 players in the world that will not be able to play in the amateur event!

This will now include an incredible amount of top players from around the globe in the "amateur" divisions including Grand Masters, "Pros" and road players.

Seems like the level of play just went up considerably!

This is gonna be very interesting to say the least!

Ray
 
By these new guidelines, it appears that Efren Reyes is now qualified to play in the amateur events!!

Ray
 
Bigtruck said:
By these new guidelines, it appears that Efren Reyes is now qualified to play in the amateur events!!

Ray
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Get'em Ray!!!!! LOL, Yeah, those guidelines do present a conundrum and probably should be clarified a little more if they want to keep players out of the amateur event that could keep amateurs from coming back.
 
beav99_4life said:
Get'em Ray!!!!! LOL, Yeah, those guidelines do present a conundrum and probably should be clarified a little more if they want to keep players out of the amateur event that could keep amateurs from coming back.
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I'm bummed Beav!! I was actually gonna enter too! :( :blush:

Many people have been asking about this for several months. This is getting VERY interesting.

I didn't see Jesse Bowman on that list either, but it is late!

Ray
 
How would you do it?

With the industry as fractured as it is, is there any clear-cut easy way to define a professional pool player?


How's this for a philosophy:

Eeney meany miney mo, catch a pro by the toe, if they holler let him go
 
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KoolKat9Lives said:
With the industry as fractured as it is, is there any clear-cut easy way to define a professional pool player?


Eeney meany miney mo, catch a pro by the toe, if he hollers let him go
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Amen to that. I almost wanna go to Galveston, but I'm gonna sit it out and wait for the reviews. Inevitably it's gonna be a clash of the regional tour winners in the amateur divisions and it's gonna stir the pot up for sure. I think the main point of it all is that the amateur pool scene has too big a variation in talent and no handicapping system out there can solve that problem!
 
i think this could ruin the amateur event, the numbers could drop dramatically due to this and i think they need to change whats an amateur and whats not as many will now not play.
 
Could it be?

They just wanted to limit the Pro brackets to 128 players ..... LOL

What about the Pros that only made 1 or 2 of the tournaments, and don't have enough points to be in the top 128??? duh!!!

How about: (to be a Pro)
1) Anyone that was in the top 32 in any pro event for the last 5 years.
2) Anyone that was in the top 8 in any national/regional event for the last 2 years.
 
the way I see it

no matter how good/bad you are, no body is going to become rich or broke just becoz who can or cannot play in a event.
From my own observation in the past, people who concerns too much of certain player/players allowed in any event does not usually finished top 3, regardless who is playing.
pool is a hobby for most of us, we enjoy it by getting involve with the event, supportting it by either attending the event or playing it!

I'd definitely hope to draw Efren or Busty if chance is given (like DCC), it will be awesome experience for life~:)
 
Snapshot9 said:
They just wanted to limit the Pro brackets to 128 players ..... LOL

What about the Pros that only made 1 or 2 of the tournaments, and don't have enough points to be in the top 128??? duh!!!

How about: (to be a Pro)
1) Anyone that was in the top 32 in any pro event for the last 5 years.
2) Anyone that was in the top 8 in any national/regional event for the last 2 years.
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Finishing in the top 8 of a regional event is not hard and you definitely don't have to be a pro to due it.

I would consider a PRO to be anyone who has won two regional tour events in the most recent two year period or is considered a PRO for their past accomplishments.
 
lee brett said:
i think this could ruin the amateur event, the numbers could drop dramatically due to this and i think they need to change whats an amateur and whats not as many will now not play.
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Lee,

It is not in the best interest of the various sanctioning bodies to re-define what an amateur is. My guess after playing in each of the major ones like BCAPL, VNEA, TAP, none of these folks even bother to define a professional anymore. The ACS at least has a list of players they consider to be pro's. Just look at the BCAPL Grand Master list. There are soooo many top twenty pro players listed in the Men's alone.

My feeling is, it is solely about entries. Let the big fish eat. My level of play has not allowed me to win a major yet. Still I want to feel I have a chance to win. Allowing even low level pro players to enter the Amateur events is just wrong. If it is not about the entry and sanctioning money, why do the sanctioning bodies make no attempt to define a "new" professional? Top 128? BS period!

Lyn
 
GMAC said:
Finishing in the top 8 of a regional event is not hard and you definitely don't have to be a pro to due it.
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Define a regional event. This past year, I won three events out of the five I played in including the finals in one regional series. No one who is familiar with my game would describe me as a professional of any stature! I also play in the Joss series. I've entered probably seventy to eighty events and never won. I've been third several times. Would it make me a pro if I won one?

gmac said:
I would consider a PRO to be anyone who has won two regional tour events in the most recent two year period or is considered a PRO for their past accomplishments.
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I'd prefer to define a professional as someone whose sole business is playing pool. There are lots of guys out there who never play in a sanctioned event. Either declining to out themselves as a high level player by performance or allow the organizers to photograph them. Check out Will Paye's (or whatever he calls himself this week) photo after winning a BCAPL Q'lympic event. His Mother wouldn't recognize him. Anyway, it is a business not a hobby to most "unknown" players. Listing them might end their run at easy money.

Lyn
 
Amateur vs Pro players

The BCAPL has a philiosophy that a player should not be 'barred from play' because they got too good.

That is why we created the "Grand Master" level of play. It is open to ANY player. It is not really appropriate to define Grand Masters as amateur players - even though many of them are amateurs.

Several reasons for this decision:

1) most of our play is on 7' tables - which is a GREAT equalizer.
2) should a player be penalized by being 'too good'?
3) Prior to our control, the BCAPL had a "once a pro-always a pro" policy
which was restricting some players from playing anywhere.
4) It is very difficult (if not impossible) to determine what a 'pro' is.
5) Our goal is to see pool raise to the level where there are PRO players -
a bunch of them - which will make all of this easier.

I am glad to see this type of discussion. But we cannot re-define what a pro is. It would change constantly. We have nothing to do with the World Classic and their definitions. And using the 'regional winner' definition is very unlevel.

Just another day in trying to figure out what a pro is. This has been going on for a long time and will continue until AT LEAST there is a true pro tour or method for pro players to make a real living.

Mark Griffin
 
Mark Griffin said:
The BCAPL has a philiosophy that a player should not be 'barred from play' because they got too good.

That is why we created the "Grand Master" level of play. It is open to ANY player. It is not really appropriate to define Grand Masters as amateur players - even though many of them are amateurs.

Several reasons for this decision:

1) most of our play is on 7' tables - which is a GREAT equalizer.
2) should a player be penalized by being 'too good'?
3) Prior to our control, the BCAPL had a "once a pro-always a pro" policy
which was restricting some players from playing anywhere.
4) It is very difficult (if not impossible) to determine what a 'pro' is.
5) Our goal is to see pool raise to the level where there are PRO players -
a bunch of them - which will make all of this easier.

I am glad to see this type of discussion. But we cannot re-define what a pro is. It would change constantly. We have nothing to do with the World Classic and their definitions. And using the 'regional winner' definition is very unlevel.

Just another day in trying to figure out what a pro is. This has been going on for a long time and will continue until AT LEAST there is a true pro tour or method for pro players to make a real living.

Mark Griffin
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I agree, it is impossible w/o a large National pro tour. Johnnyt
 
cardiac kid said:
Define a regional event. This past year, I won three events out of the five I played in including the finals in one regional series. No one who is familiar with my game would describe me as a professional of any stature! I also play in the Joss series. I've entered probably seventy to eighty events and never won. I've been third several times. Would it make me a pro if I won one?



I'd prefer to define a professional as someone whose sole business is playing pool. There are lots of guys out there who never play in a sanctioned event. Either declining to out themselves as a high level player by performance or allow the organizers to photograph them. Check out Will Paye's (or whatever he calls himself this week) photo after winning a BCAPL Q'lympic event. His Mother wouldn't recognize him. Anyway, it is a business not a hobby to most "unknown" players. Listing them might end their run at easy money.

Lyn
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Regional Tour would be:

Joss Tour
Predator Tour
GSBT
Tiger Tour

There are a few others around the country I just know the ones around me.

Tournies like this. Not a local Tuesday Night tourney.


I didn't say list anybody. I said you just politely let them know they can't play. If you aren"t sure of your status you should call and they will tell you if you can play or not. If you want to remain an unknown player you should not be showing up to this event anyway.
 
IMO there are not to many pro players, and that excluding 128 of them seems pretty extreme. I wonder how many players make their living from strictly playing pool.
I also think events like this are in a hard spot and no matter what definition they came up with for who is a pro and who is not, would meet criticism. I say let all but a select few, who are easily identifiable play.

I also think events like this are needed to promote pool and will eventually help build a clear list of identifiable pro pool players in the future. i don't understand anyone complaining or disparaging an event like this before it even happens.

Support those who are trying to support pool and billiards!
 
Top 8 is way to liberal. I think if you include the "smaller" tours even winning does not put you out of amateur status. I know B players who have finised top 8 in tiger or blaze events. I was one of them.

If players want to steal soft money fine, then stay away from the tournaments. I think there should be two lists. Players not allowed and players allowed. If you are unknown you get 1 shot at the cash. You are then published on either list.

The problem in pool is that the money does not follow the skill, thus players are always looking to get into the lowest possible skill level tournaments. Look at vegas. What pays the most, the open, not the masters or grand masters. Until an organization start compiling a list of the players and rating the point will be moot. In every other sport the better you are the more it pays. You dont see Tiger teeing it up on the Hooters tour. In pool this is what everyone tries to do.

I just feel bad for the guy who enters and draws Neils Feijen in the first round. He is allowed to play, not in the top 128!!! Galvestons way to determine amateurs is an easy way out of a tough problem that will haunt the tournaments ability to draw a good amateur field.
 
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