I'm really loving the Jacoby Edge Hybrid ld shaft.
I've played with them all mainly predator but this Jacoby shaft got me.
I've played with them all mainly predator but this Jacoby shaft got me.
What is the stiffest low deflection shaft out there?
- Thread starter twal
- Start date
I've use to own a OB Classic Pro(11.75mm), it's a stiff shaft for sure. But after trying my friend's WD 700 i grew to like it more, although it's LD it has a more natural wood feel so it's not completely stiff.
In terms of stiffness, i'd say OB Classic is dam stiff and it's uncored unlike most LD Shaft.
However if you want LD and still have some "feel" i would go for the WD700.
I also owned a Pred Z2 briefly, didn't like it much. 314s are ok and i know many swears by them. I'm not into LD now but if i am going to be, i'd put my money in a Mezz...
The only challenge would be finding a Mezz LD Shaft that fits your cue..goodluck! :wink:
In terms of stiffness, i'd say OB Classic is dam stiff and it's uncored unlike most LD Shaft.
However if you want LD and still have some "feel" i would go for the WD700.
I also owned a Pred Z2 briefly, didn't like it much. 314s are ok and i know many swears by them. I'm not into LD now but if i am going to be, i'd put my money in a Mezz...
The only challenge would be finding a Mezz LD Shaft that fits your cue..goodluck! :wink:
LD Shaft - Personal feeling...
Agreed. The OB Classic has a nice solid feel. Mine is the one with that little tiny ferrule as I didn't really care for the feel of the wood ferrule. It provides a good amount of feedback. I am currently using a Kamui ss black and I've been really pleased with the total result. I own and have used several of the LD shafts, the closest imo to the OB was the Jacoby - I think it's called 'Edge'. Outstanding shaft. Personally, my favorite is still the original Predator 314 pre-panther (when it was still an American product), I also like the Dominiak D3, but if I ever get a chance and a reasonable price... and if I ever have the disposable funds I will gladly get the Jacoby.
Agreed. The OB Classic has a nice solid feel. Mine is the one with that little tiny ferrule as I didn't really care for the feel of the wood ferrule. It provides a good amount of feedback. I am currently using a Kamui ss black and I've been really pleased with the total result. I own and have used several of the LD shafts, the closest imo to the OB was the Jacoby - I think it's called 'Edge'. Outstanding shaft. Personally, my favorite is still the original Predator 314 pre-panther (when it was still an American product), I also like the Dominiak D3, but if I ever get a chance and a reasonable price... and if I ever have the disposable funds I will gladly get the Jacoby.
Predator low deflection 314-2 shaft demo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1C_O8AO8yY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1C_O8AO8yY&feature=related
Predator hands down,not because of any other alternative reason other than there the best low deflection shaft on the market and have been for years.Some people may not like the feel of Predator but a far as the OP's
question,Predator is light years beyond the rest in the LD department.As far as the Mezz 700 shaft,I found it was nowhere close to low deflection shaft but closer to a stiffer maple shaft with alot more deflection.
question,Predator is light years beyond the rest in the LD department.As far as the Mezz 700 shaft,I found it was nowhere close to low deflection shaft but closer to a stiffer maple shaft with alot more deflection.
This is incorrect. It has been shown over and over that the "stiffness" of the shaft is almost irrelevant to deflection properties. It is the *mass* at the end of the shaft that determines deflection. Thus stiff and low deflection can certainly be compatible.
KMRUNOUT
you asked the question, you got the answer.
ALL shafts bend at impact with the cueball off center. They bend near the tip end. The end moves to the side one way or the other. The differences in stiffness that you perceive are negligible in terms of this behavior. It is the MASS that determines the deflection.
Why ask the question if you want to argue with the answer?
KMRUNOUT
Then please explain the effect in bold. If your explanation is going to go something like "LD shafts are more flexible, so they can bend out of the way easier", save it. The people that MAKE the low deflection shafts behave with low deflection DISAGREE WITH YOU. Still, it might be entertaining for you to share your ideas.
Thanks,
KMRUNOUT
Low deflection most certainly comes from lower mass near the tip, it also comes from taper. Helmstetter was making low deflection one piece shafts many years ago, without the advantage of a large hole in the middle of the last 5".
Stiffness comes as much from taper as mass, as shown by 11mm ferrule size with long tapers that still play stiff.
I believe that lack of feel in LD shafts come from too big of a hole at the ferrule end, while this makes the end of the shaft bend away from the cue ball the movement is not felt quite the same in your stroke arm and I believe the feedback that is lost reduces a, new players in particular but M. Massey stated it took him a year of practice to play with his new Predator, players learning curve.
Bob Danielson, maker of SS360 6-pie laminated shafts for over 15 years, maker of 6-pie laminated butts for over 11 years.
www.bdcuesandcomix.com
Stiffness comes as much from taper as mass, as shown by 11mm ferrule size with long tapers that still play stiff.
I believe that lack of feel in LD shafts come from too big of a hole at the ferrule end, while this makes the end of the shaft bend away from the cue ball the movement is not felt quite the same in your stroke arm and I believe the feedback that is lost reduces a, new players in particular but M. Massey stated it took him a year of practice to play with his new Predator, players learning curve.
Bob Danielson, maker of SS360 6-pie laminated shafts for over 15 years, maker of 6-pie laminated butts for over 11 years.
www.bdcuesandcomix.com
my choice
i think royce ar ob makes a great shaft, but my favorite choice would be a modified constant taper shaft made using old growth or recycled wood from old one piece house cues. i like the honey color, dense, high growth ring pieces, just a carbon fiber pad and a 12 3/4 mm tip.
chuck starkey
i think royce ar ob makes a great shaft, but my favorite choice would be a modified constant taper shaft made using old growth or recycled wood from old one piece house cues. i like the honey color, dense, high growth ring pieces, just a carbon fiber pad and a 12 3/4 mm tip.
chuck starkey
The faster that tip deflects OFF the cueball, the less the cueball will deflect from it.
The makers don't tell you the physics side of it b/c it'll confuse most.
Somebody's confused.
Stiffness may affect squirt, but not by what you're suggesting. Of all the things that might affect squirt, stiffness isn't a major contributor.
It's all about effective end-mass in the collision. And the effective end-mass in the collision is based on contact time (tip to ball) and the speed of the transverse wave down the shaft ((time * speed = length of shaft => mass)).
If stiffness can increase or decrease one of the two, then the squirt will be affected. I believe the Jacksonville study showed no appreciable change in contact time due to stiffness. I think a material change is in order if we're going to increase the stiffness enough to make a non-neglible change.
RBC
Deceased
Well said as always Fred!
I was hoping you'd chime in.
If you'll be at the SBE, stop by and say hi.
Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
With today's internet, this is a subject that we've been discussing and dissecting for 15 years and yet it is still so misrepresented by people who call out the "It's Physics" battle cry.
Next thing you know, somebody will start describing back-hand english as if they're the first one to talk about it and everyone who hasn't been paying attention will suddenly embrace the new video as brand new information...
Freddie <~~~ never gets any credit, but doesn't deserve it either
I didn't say stiffness did.
That hole in the first 5 inches of the shaft doesn't affect stiffness either.
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Okay... since stiffness is the meat of the thread, ...
You've got something else that somehow decreases the tip contact time? You did write "tip" in your post. Lower end mass doesn't reduce tip contact time.
It must be illusional l on my part then.
Whack the cue at the joint, on LD shaft, you can see the tip end wiggle really fast and far due to low mass.
On regular one, it wiggles not too fast and not too far.
I guess it doesn't decrease contact time, just cueball squirt.
I have tried The Mezz WD700 and couldn't agree with you more. Extremely 'whippy' feeling in my opinion and not very responsive.
I have also had the OB Classic and would deem it a bit stiffer than the WD700, a very good playing shaft that responds well and gives 'okay' feedback.
But, in my own opinion, the best feeling, most responsive and stiffest hit from a LD shaft has come from Tiger. I cannot say enough good things about the playability of their shafts. Love 'em!
It goes without saying that the right LD shaft for you is the one that you personally like the most.
I would suggest trying one, if you find you don't like it you should be able to find someone in the wanted/for sale section that will most likely be willing to trade you for a different one.
Good Luck in your search!
Steve H.
Are Tiger shafts really LD shafts ?
I think you're seeing natural frequency and acoustics. By acoustics, if you whack something, then the displacement * mass should be equal at two equal-distance points from some nodal point. If the the mass is less, then the displacement (amplitude in this case) must be more. But, I think that study is not relevant to collision theory.
The examination of the transverse wave that is the major part of defining end mass in effect is *during* tip contact. That wave only travels maybe ~6-8" before the contact time ends. It's not an up & down wave *during* tip contact like the speed of sound wave.
Freddie <~~~ Gawd, Joey, get me away from this engineering-speak