What is the Taiwanese Secret to Success?

[hang-the-9]

As we know, the instruction programs and facilities are exceptional in Taiwan, but that's only some of the story.

Four of the Taiwanese superstars, meaning Ko Pin Yi, JL Chang, Ko Ping Chung, YL Chang are following in the footsteps of both Asia's best and Europe's best. That is, they are testing themselves as often as possible in all the toughest events on the world pool calendar.

This is the secret of all the great ones. Only a few of the top players who live in America travel to the big events. Take a look at Jayson Shaw. He's been a fine player for years, sharing the Joss Tour stage with Mike Dechaine and holding his own in some of America's premier events. This year, however, was his breakout year. What was different about this year was that Jayson regularly traveled to both Euro-tour events and WPA ranking points events. No US based player, SVB included, played more overseas events this year than Jayson. By hooking up with the superstars of world pool so many times this year, Jayson brought his game to the next level. In other words, he did it the way most of the great players, including the Taiwanese, have done it.

The secret is testing your game against the world's most elite as often as possible. The Taiwanese are following in the footprints of the Filipinos, so many of whom followed the same formula.

A+ post, Jayson for sure has gone back and forth following the top events world-wide. But his shooting ability I don't think is any better than it was when he started, that boy makes a tight table look like it's a 7' Valley more than anyone else I think. His biggest thing was keeping up the pressure when he was losing or had some bad roles, and there is when I see him improve a lot. Look at his come-backs recently, that did not happen to him a year or 3 back from what I saw of his games.

 

[sjm]

A+ post, Jayson for sure has gone back and forth following the top events world-wide. But his shooting ability I don't think is any better than it was when he started, that boy makes a tight table look like it's a 7' Valley more than anyone else I think. His biggest thing was keeping up the pressure when he was losing or had some bad roles, and there is when I see him improve a lot. Look at his come-backs recently, that did not happen to him a year or 3 back from what I saw of his games.

Good post. His skills have probably only advanced marginally, but he has greatly strengthened his composure and his competitive pedigree.

 

[inycepoo]

As we know, the instruction programs and facilities are exceptional in Taiwan, but that's only some of the story.

Four of the Taiwanese superstars, meaning Ko Pin Yi, JL Chang, Ko Ping Chung, YL Chang are following in the footsteps of both Asia's best and Europe's best. That is, they are testing themselves as often as possible in all the toughest events on the world pool calendar.

This is the secret of all the great ones. Only a few of the top players who live in America travel to the big events. Take a look at Jayson Shaw. He's been a fine player for years, sharing the Joss Tour stage with Mike Dechaine and holding his own in some of America's premier events. This year, however, was his breakout year. What was different about this year was that Jayson regularly traveled to both Euro-tour events and WPA ranking points events. No US based player, SVB included, played more overseas events this year than Jayson. By hooking up with the superstars of world pool so many times this year, Jayson brought his game to the next level. In other words, he did it the way most of the great players, including the Taiwanese, have done it.

The secret is testing your game against the world's most elite as often as possible. The Taiwanese are following in the footprints of the Filipinos, so many of whom followed the same formula.

I've noticed this as well. Do you think this has to do with the "American mentality," i.e., America is big, America is great, America is awesome with talent, that the motivation or financial feasibility of traveling abroad a lot dwindles? This is something I've noticed in arenas far beyond pool. Americans are weird

 

[sjm]

I've noticed this as well. Do you think this has to do with the "American mentality," i.e., America is big, America is great, America is awesome with talent, that the motivation or financial feasibility of traveling abroad a lot dwindles? This is something I've noticed in arenas far beyond pool. Americans are weird

It's hard to gauge, but some always argue that the absence of Olympic money make the gamble of overseas travel too great. Appleton is also US based, so his cost of participation is the same as it would be for US based Americans, but he always understood that traveling to the top international events was the best way to master his craft.

To me it seems to evidence American laziness, and not bravado, but on the other hand, each player must size up the gamble of international travel to tournaments and act accordingly.

 

[inycepoo]

It's hard to gauge, but some always argue that the absence of Olympic money make the gamble of overseas travel too great. Appleton is also US based, so his cost of participation is the same as it would be for US based Americans, but he always understood that traveling to the top international events was the best way to master his craft.

To me it seems to evidence American laziness, and not bravado, but on the other hand, each player must size up the gamble of international travel to tournaments and act accordingly.

I used to think it was the money thing as well but there are well-funded Americans who don't travel anywhere close to what they should be doing internationally. And I wasn't talking about bravado at all, I definitely think it's mostly laziness lol

 

[Cezar Morales]

A+ post, Jayson for sure has gone back and forth following the top events world-wide. But his shooting ability I don't think is any better than it was when he started, that boy makes a tight table look like it's a 7' Valley more than anyone else I think. His biggest thing was keeping up the pressure when he was losing or had some bad roles, and there is when I see him improve a lot. Look at his come-backs recently, that did not happen to him a year or 3 back from what I saw of his games.

Jayson 's my idol but
I doubt is if a 16 yr old Jayson could out -shoot a 16 yr old Wu or even now, ask around, wu is still considerdd the best shot maker in town.

 

[Cezar Morales]

I was not really saying anything bad about Taiwan (or China quality for that matter since it can be very good given the right requirements and time). I know for guitars and many other industries, Taiwan made is preferable to China made every time. The Epiphone Gibson guitars for example, have plenty of desirable years where they were made in Taiwan and are really only second to the US models. But once again, based on costs and time spent. If Taiwan or China used the same quality parts and were allowed to spend the same time on polishing the details, I doubt the US versions would be better.

The training they get though, along with pretty much every Asian area country, is very standardized and how they learn is the same. There is a good show about magic that Penn and Teller did where they visited China, the magicians there were taught in a classroom by the dozens, and the trick they did was the same exact one, done in the same exact way as everyone else. I guess that is again lumping Taiwan in with China but honestly I don't see much difference in how the culture is as far as training/teaching things.

I will look up that player you mentioned, thanks.

I think it will be more appropriate for you to comment whether taiwan n china culture is somewhat similar only if u actually visited both countries.

I've been all over taiwan n at least 8 major cities in China.
Apart from Shanghai n Beijing which is the most developed cities in China, im quite reluctant everytime i posted there for work due to the culture in which i find ppl are pretty selfish n rude.

On the other hand, its gonna bring a big smile to my face if im getting posted to taiwan which ppl are so bloody nice n helpful.

Totally 2 different culture.. way too different be it in education or other aspects.
Taiwanese are raised to be helpful curteous n respectful whereas ....

And f.y.i, taiwanese have a serious dislike for people from china due to immigration issues n China for a long time has been trying to bully taiwan into being part of china and USA for decades has been protecting Taiwan.

 

[Cezar Morales]

Have you seen Chang Yu Lung play? Look at Taiwan's 2015 WCOP championship run and some of the shots he made and say they're not capable of "painting Picassos" again. Do Taiwanese have more boring styles than others? Yes. But that lends itself to consistency. American players are creative but in many pressure situations that's just an excuse for being messy

Your last paragraph especially is not representative of Taiwan. The only leading manufacturing industry in Taiwan is semiconductors and computer chips; that sexy Intel chip on your computer probably comes from Taiwan, or a portion of it. China is the leader of cheap pump and dump manufacturing. We have quality in Taiwan

Chang yu lung plays at the pool hall i used to frequent in taipei.

Man, that dude is a bloody chimney, he smokes so much and eats a hell lot of that taiwanese chewing gum but i think thats his secret to his superb shot making skills if u seen him play 9 ball chinese 8 ball table lol

 

[Straightpool_99]

Like most success (but not all), it's disciplined practice. Sometimes a gifted genius will thrive in extremely adverse conditions, but that is not the rule.

Talented "freaks of nature" will appear randomly anywhere, but they usually need the possiblity to hone their craft, to reach their full potential. Taiwan has lots of pool, and lots of great players. They also practice hard, and they pracitce the right things. Sometimes a country will for a short time be a hotbed (of whatever sport is in question), but unless there is a will and a way to start coaching schools and training programmes they usually fizzle out after a while. To keep a region strong you need a continuous supply of good players to keep the level of competion up and force even the best to improve their games.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

Thanks for the observation and validation of something that was relayed to me a long time ago, when a young Taiwanese lady pro was asked about the school she attended to learn to play pool.

Have u been to taiwan ?

I've worked there for 5 years and i can confirmed first hand what u say is totally not true.
I used to be a big big fan of the pinoy style ( free and easy exhibition razzle dazzle play ) until i move to taiwan for work.
After moving there and bringing my ego along thinking im gonna kick some asses , i got my ass handed to me and my ego badly bruised.. including a 13 yr old middle school gal.. shit.. n boy their stroke really look ugly compared to my long flowing smooth filipino stroke ,that really hurt n the worst part i dont understand why.

The 70 YEAR OLD house pro at the pool hall i went in the country side knew i was a foreigner expatriate so he kinda befriended me and took me under his wing n explain to me why im getting killed.
Instantly he could tell i was taught the game by filipino players n i told him my idol is Efren and he's the reason why i even picked up a pool cue which is true.
He smiled instantly and tells me efren's the greatest player that ever live but unfortunately not everyone can be as talented as him , playing instinctively and figuring his way around by his feel.

He told me , the way they play here is strictly based on logic and natural physicss in which everything can be explained so they try to keep it simple, stupid and textbook fundementals.
When many pinoys taught me how to play when i first started , they wld demonstrate but struggle at explaining ( not becoz of language ) and they wld often told me to " feel " it.
If u watch the tar video where busty explain his aimimg technique, u wld understand what i mean, he was using swerve to throw an object ball in but he doesnt realize that simply because hes learned n played BY FEEL n nothing wrong w that, still one of the best players but thats the pinoy style

He gave me a very insight comparison , the rails are a filipino's best friend but it is the worst enemy of the taiwanese
I was shocked becoz i love playing rails to get shape.
He explained , rails r very unpredictable n plays different from table to table and it is often the part which causes the unforce error.
For example , a diamond often banks short n brunswick banks long.

He then proceeded to run a simple layout of 9 ball on the table just using pure centre axis centre ball , follow stun draw using minimal rail contact, and potting 5 balls without touching a rail by being on the right side.
He said see, it may not be as beautiful as em pinoys but it definitely decreases our margin of error and increases our run-out percentages.

Over the years there, players ( pros n recreation ) are extremely dedicated to the game n beginners are taught to start with shooting 100 stop shots on 3 inch pockets , yes 3 inch and do drills using to pure centre asix cue ball ( no english ) before they are allowed to play.
When they start playing , they usually start with 14.1 to get their basics right before playing 9 ball

In schools , students are drilled day after day to understand the fundementals n natural cue ball path and 13 yr old boys n gals are already mastering playing shape for 3rd ball and could run 3 to r rails natural call ball path at ease n taught to jump lol yes
It is not surprising for a 13 yr old kid to break n run 3-5 racks there.
And to answer your question , wu used to grow up at his grandmother's pool hall and i saw him when he was 12 , he was gambling ring game 9 ball with a group of pro's n retired pros on his grandmother dime, yes thats how good he was already.
A friend of mine even told me he deliberately practiced with dirty balls n off the air-con to simulate tough conditions where the balls wouldnt move easily, working on his stroke.

And on the contrary to the philipines , taiwanese respect good equipments u can find well -maintained pristine brunswick gold crown everywhere ( sadly no diamonds ) and tables are kept in tip-top conditions, being cleaned after every set n cloth changed every 3-4 months, they basically take extreme good care of their equipments.

And by the way ,the 70 yr old house pro i talked about still runs over 100 in straight pool n runs 3 pack at ease regularly, he used to coach Yang chin hsun and wu chia ching when they were young

Sadly i no longer work in taiwan and i miss my pool friends dearly and the time i spent playing pool were the best of my life , everyone so friendly and they are keen to share their skills and knowledge so i evolved quickly and currently an A player in my country.
Feel free to ask anymore questions n i"ll try my best to answer em with the best of my knowledge

 

[inycepoo]

Chang yu lung plays at the pool hall i used to frequent in taipei.

Man, that dude is a bloody chimney, he smokes so much and eats a hell lot of that taiwanese chewing gum but i think thats his secret to his superb shot making skills if u seen him play 9 ball chinese 8 ball table lol

Ugh those stupid areca nut chews...you can tell he chews it a lot from the color of his teeth. Taiwanese culture is courteous and higher class than China 99% of the time, but there is an ugly side to the culture as well..

 

[John Disque]

The Taiwanese population is less than a quarter the population of the pool-crazy Philippines, yet Taiwan seems to have a stronger group of elite players than any other region, country, or continent.

My gut feeling is that they practice (and by this I don't mean practice play) far more than the players from any other region. What put Wu on the fast-track to being a 2 time world champion at only 16 years old. There is no way practice play alone would get him there. Does anybody have greater insight on this topic?

They breed pool players. They school them and raise them to be pool players. Surrounding them is: an incredible amount of love and support. they're not just playing for themselves and their own ego - they're playing for Taiwan.

Compare that to America - where we're outcasted and treated like criminals and 2nd class citizens. When we get good = we're barred from pool rooms and tournaments, we're reduced to hustling chumps, we win a regional event and it doesn't pay for road-costs, we sleep in our cars, we hustle to get to the next tournament, we deal with little pr_cks who talk shit about us, and we truly grind out some kind of living so we don't have to work at Waffle House.

The big mistake with America is: thinking this is somehow cool, and the American-way.

We're not evolving - and Taiwan is.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Ugh those stupid areca nut chews...you can tell he chews it a lot from the color of his teeth. Taiwanese culture is courteous and higher class than China 99% of the time, but there is an ugly side to the culture as well..

The Betel Nut Beauties used to be all over Taiwan. I think they cracked down on them and I didn't see too many of them the last time I went back. However, there was a betel nut place right next door to where I was staying. It was open 24/7 and business was brisk. There were ladies selling them, but they weren't in skimpy clothing.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tai...4T-pfDQAhVhlFQKHQ-MAUcQ_AUIBygC&dpr=1#imgrc=_

 

[inycepoo]

The Betel Nut Beauties used to be all over Taiwan. I think they cracked down on them and I didn't see too many of them the last time I went back. However, there was a betel nut place right next door to where I was staying. It was open 24/7 and business was brisk. There were ladies selling them, but they weren't in skimpy clothing.

https://www.google.com/search?q=tai...4T-pfDQAhVhlFQKHQ-MAUcQ_AUIBygC&dpr=1#imgrc=_

There hasn't been any "crackdown." The government has been on a decades-long PR campaign to make the harmful effects of the nuts very clear. It's akin to the American anti-smoking movement. A lot of the working class, less educated folks are still functionally addicted to it though

 

[HelloBaby-]

You nailed it!

They breed pool players. They school them and raise them to be pool players. Surrounding them is: an incredible amount of love and support. they're not just playing for themselves and their own ego - they're playing for Taiwan.

Compare that to America - where we're outcasted and treated like criminals and 2nd class citizens. When we get good = we're barred from pool rooms and tournaments, we're reduced to hustling chumps, we win a regional event and it doesn't pay for road-costs, we sleep in our cars, we hustle to get to the next tournament, we deal with little pr_cks who talk shit about us, and we truly grind out some kind of living so we don't have to work at Waffle House.

The big mistake with America is: thinking this is somehow cool, and the American-way.

We're not evolving - and Taiwan is.

 

[Rubikong]

Fundamental


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mr. Bond]

Compare that to America - where we're outcasted and treated like criminals and 2nd class citizens. When we get good = we're barred from pool rooms and tournaments, we're reduced to hustling chumps, we win a regional event and it doesn't pay for road-costs, we sleep in our cars, we hustle to get to the next tournament, we deal with little pr_cks who talk shit about us, and we truly grind out some kind of living so we don't have to work at Waffle House.

The big mistake with America is: thinking this is somehow cool, and the American-way.

The reputation and scorn pool has received in the U.S., it has earned.
Fully.

In other countries, they do not receive it because they do not earn it.

Across the sea they seek iron-clad honor instead of stealing wallets like a whore.



That said, keep in mind that the rest of the world is playing 9ball ( The American Game. I repeat, The American Game) for a reason.

 

[smashmouth]

drills and fundamentals

taiwanese/chinese get it as do the euros

filipinos just play often

filipino dominance is over, that won't change anytime soon until they change their ways (unlikely) and until the country improves economically (less likely)

 

[CMB1]

also the Taiwanese share their knowledge. you can walk to to any top players and ask them questions and they will explain it to you. Pinoy will hide their knowledge so they can beat you and make some money off it. That's why the Taiwanese improves as a whole.

 

[nine_ball6970]

[/COLOR]
Compare that to America - where we're outcasted and treated like criminals and 2nd class citizens. When we get good = we're barred from pool rooms and tournaments, we're reduced to hustling chumps, we win a regional event and it doesn't pay for road-costs, we sleep in our cars, we hustle to get to the next tournament, we deal with little pr_cks who talk shit about us, and we truly grind out some kind of living so we don't have to work at Waffle House.

The big mistake with America is: thinking this is somehow cool, and the American-way.

We're not evolving - and Taiwan is.

Have you ever thought the people who are so called outcasts and treated like 2nd class citizens might deserve that reputation.

You talk about hustling chumps. Think about that for a moment. Someone has a full time job and enjoys playing pool. You try to take their money and belittle them because you don't want to work at Waffle House?

I am sorry if you aren't good enough to make a good living playing pool and you have to sleep in your car because of that. Don't blame others for your choices.

Nobody has ever been banned from my pool room for being too good. That includes former Mosconi Cup players and anyone who walks in the door. They can play in any tournament. Maybe you get banned from some tournament you are robbing full of C players. Who knows.

I get tired of this entitled mentality. You are good at pool. Cool. That doesn't mean everyone should bend over backwards for you and pay your bills. Be an adult. Get a job like the rest of us and play pool on the side. News flash. Lots of shortstops work. You are not special.