What is too much?

R

RacerNerd

Registered
I was talking to a fellow pool player recently about the way I practice. I mentioned that if I miss a shot during league that I will come home and shoot the shot 30 times. He said that was 30 times shooting the same shot was too many. When I clarified that I meant that I make myself pocket the shot 30 times no matter how long it takes, he said that was probably way too much and that I might be getting adverse affects from that way of practicing.

So my question is, what is too much and what is the best way to go about practicing my trouble shots?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
I disagree...good disciplined practice is about quality, not quantity. If you have a way to fix what you're doing wrong in your stroke, and a way to measure when you do it correctly, a few reps (under 10) are plenty to get good feedback. You can shoot a shot 1000 times, but if your stroke is poor, it won't help you to learn it much.

You can't fix what you don't know about...and you can't fix what you can't measure! Most important...you can only fix one thing at a time!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

jason said:
After you make thirty, double it.
Click to expand...
 
think of it this way, by hitting it over and over and over

say you make the ball everytime, I can almost guarantee you did something differient on every shot, wether its hand placement, speed of stroke, where you hit the cue ball, how your eyes moved etc....

From all that randomness you can learn nothing, the idea is to be able to control your body and perform the SAME thing every time every stroke. That is why you want to pratice in small sets broken down so as you can and also have the want to give your utmost concentration to the said shot or drill.

Remember when you used to screw around at practice coach used to send your butt to run laps or go home, if your going to practice and not do it right then you might as well sit yourself on the bench.

When I walk by my table I do mother drill #1 now, i do 2 shots perfect...saying my hand goes home the ball goes in....and after the two shots are done I continue walking to the bathroom saying, my hand goes home the ball goes....click door shuts lol.

Quantity will make you brain dead, quality will make you a zen master
Grey Ghost
 
Scott and Ghost both gave you some very good advice. Let's say it took you 40 shots to make those 30. That means you practiced how not to shoot the shot 10 times.

We teach our students to practice what they do, not what the balls do. When you practice your stroke until you get it absolutely perfect every time, you have accomplished something. By limiting your practice sessions, you will find you pay more attention to what you are doing.

If you know you have 50 chances to do something, it's easy to get sloppy on some of them. If you know you only get 10 chances to get it right, you will be much more focused on each of those 10 chances.

Steve
 
I once heard from a very wise man ," Just shoot the shot a thousand times and then you will know."
 
Scott Lee said:
I disagree...good disciplined practice is about quality, not quantity. If you have a way to fix what you're doing wrong in your stroke, and a way to measure when you do it correctly, a few reps (under 10) are plenty to get good feedback. You can shoot a shot 1000 times, but if your stroke is poor, it won't help you to learn it much.

You can't fix what you don't know about...and you can't fix what you can't measure! Most important...you can only fix one thing at a time!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Quantity is a quality.

With all due respect Scott, do you think MJ, Bird, Tiger, Efren, Shane, Payton, Bret (the list can go on and on) didn't practice shooting and throwing the same shots over and over and over?

If you are having consistent success, then continue. If you are not having success, then try something different until you do. Analyze what you did differently and try to repeat it.

...on the other hand, if can't seem to find success, then I would agree to walk away and try again another day.
 
jason said:
Quantity is a quality.

With all due respect Scott, do you think MJ, Bird, Tiger, Efren, Shane, Payton, Bret (the list can go on and on) didn't practice shooting and throwing the same shots over and over and over?

If you are having consistent success, then continue. If you are not having success, then try something different until you do. Analyze what you did differently and try to repeat it.

...on the other hand, if can't seem to find success, then I would agree to walk away and try again another day.
Click to expand...

of course they did, but they did it the same way everytime...thats why those names were on your list and not someone else, the someone elses that never do it with repeatable swing/stroke/whatever cant make it on your list b/c they never found the consistency.
 
If you guys don't mind me interjecting my opinion since I'm not a certified instructor. My experience tells me that if you practice the same shot too many times the required muscles for that shot get tired and then your practice starts to go back-wards.

Many shots require different techniques and strokes, so different degrees of muscle use is needed. Try to mix up different shots for a better practice.
 
Jason. Practicing free throws is just a little different. A free throw is always the exact same distance and angle. If there were only one shot in pool, that might be an effective way to practice, but with over a million possible pool shots, it is not the most efficient way to practice.
We suggest you practice those things that come into play on EVERY shot. (the way YOU move, and the way you aim) That way, no matter what shot you are facing on the table, you will be as well prepared as you can be to make it.

Used properly, the Mother drills along with SAM or whichever aiming system you use will prepare you for any shot...not just the ones you have practiced.

Steve
 
Wow, these are some great tips and suggestions. I appreciate the input and feel like I have a much better idea about how to go about things in a way that will positively affect my play. Thank you all.
 
Play the shot a few times, and write it on an index card. Do this for other shots as they occur over time, and number them as you go.
 
I practice the shot until I have it mastered.

The way to practice a missed shot that I should not have missed is first to determine why I missed. If it turns out that I missed because I did not know how to play the shot then I take it to the practice table.

At the practice table I want to learn how to shoot the shot and all its variations. This means that I start out with a simplified version of the shot. Probably I would begin with using center ball on the cue ball and no position. My intent would be to make it three or more times and get to the point where I felt like I had mastered the shot anytime I set it up. It is now one of those shots I own.

The next phase, for me, would be using all the variations of spin on the cue ball that would be needed in various situations. Following this I would practice all the positional variations such as leaving the cue ball in the middle of the table, on the opposite rail, at the end of the table, etc.

When I practice my goal is to make the shot at least 90% of the time. There are not many regular shots that I can’t make and this is not a difficult goal to reach. I also know that when my shot making drops much below 80% that I need a break. My eyes need a rest, my concentration wanders, I lose interest. There are many factors and I know that if I continue to play I will only develop bad habits. To improve my ability it is best to go and get a cup of coffee, talk to someone, check the net, whatever, for ten minutes or so.

When I am refreshed I come back to the table for another session. To give it everything I have when playing pool it requires a lot of concentration and real effort. After about 30 – 40 minutes of intense effort I need a break.

There are times I have played 14.1 continuous for more than 12 hours with a friend. It is not that I can’t play; it is that I can’t play my best and learn better techniques with the required intensity for more than about 30 – 40 minutes.

How many times should I practice a shot? Heck, I don’t know. I practice it till I own it. :cool: There is one shot I have been working on for about three months and I still can’t quite get it where I want it. :eek:
 
I don't remember if I read it or seen it on a video. There was one pro player that would go into a PH and shoot the same shot for 4 hours straight. When asked why he did that? His response... Because it comes up in every game.
 
I'm not sure that is the most effecient way to practice. Considering there are probably a million possible shots on a pool table, it would take 4 million hours of practice to learn them all.
:eek:

Steve
 
I know every one of you has heard the term "pratice makes perfect"

whomever said this did not complete the statement.

PERFECT PRATICE MAKES PERFECT......


pissing around and doing it the wrong way over and over has nothing to do with mastering a shot....you do it the right way every time thats how you get better.....but believe what you want
 
Well, I'm certainly no world beater, but I look at it like this. There is only one shot. The cue ball hits the OB, the OB goes in the pocket. Sure there are different angles, but the shot accuracy is the same and dependent on stroke and delivery.

The important thing is to be able to stroke the cue properly and finish your stroke properly. Then you have to know how to "see" the CB being delivered to the contact point on the CB.

Once you "TRUST" in these things you can shoot your shots with confidence consistently.

I like to put an OB in the dead center of the table, put the CB about a foot off the jaws of one of the corner pockets, out far enough just to make a good bridge. Then shoot the OB into the diagonal corner pocket and follow the cue ball in behind it.

Practicing this .... at least for me, helps my muscle memory and stroke delivery. Try it, and see if you can do it.

I'm a firm believer that its all about delivery and trusting your aiming method more than it is about a particular angle on a given shot.
 
Very good! The only thing we control on any shot is what we do with the cue stick. That determines everything else that happens on the table.
If you have an accurate delivery system that moves the cue stick forward in a straight line, which gets the cue ball to go where you are aiming, then the only other variable is whether or not you know where to aim the shot.
Learn to move the cue properly, and all you need to do is know where to aim.

Steve
 
JoeW said:
I practice the shot until I have it mastered.

The way to practice a missed shot that I should not have missed is first to determine why I missed. If it turns out that I missed because I did not know how to play the shot then I take it to the practice table.

At the practice table I want to learn how to shoot the shot and all its variations. This means that I start out with a simplified version of the shot. Probably I would begin with using center ball on the cue ball and no position. My intent would be to make it three or more times and get to the point where I felt like I had mastered the shot anytime I set it up. It is now one of those shots I own.

The next phase, for me, would be using all the variations of spin on the cue ball that would be needed in various situations. Following this I would practice all the positional variations such as leaving the cue ball in the middle of the table, on the opposite rail, at the end of the table, etc.

When I practice my goal is to make the shot at least 90% of the time. There are not many regular shots that I can’t make and this is not a difficult goal to reach. I also know that when my shot making drops much below 80% that I need a break. My eyes need a rest, my concentration wanders, I lose interest. There are many factors and I know that if I continue to play I will only develop bad habits. To improve my ability it is best to go and get a cup of coffee, talk to someone, check the net, whatever, for ten minutes or so.

When I am refreshed I come back to the table for another session. To give it everything I have when playing pool it requires a lot of concentration and real effort. After about 30 – 40 minutes of intense effort I need a break.

There are times I have played 14.1 continuous for more than 12 hours with a friend. It is not that I can’t play; it is that I can’t play my best and learn better techniques with the required intensity for more than about 30 – 40 minutes.

How many times should I practice a shot? Heck, I don’t know. I practice it till I own it. :cool: There is one shot I have been working on for about three months and I still can’t quite get it where I want it. :eek:
Click to expand...

Good post JoeW. Attention span and recognizing when you are losing it is key. The type of activity one is involved in can influence how long "that" is. People are generally capable of a longer attention span when they are doing something that they find enjoyable or intrinsically motivating.

Estimates for the length of human attention span are highly variable and range from 3 to 5 minutes per year of age in young children, to a maximum of around 20 minutes in adults.

Continuous attention span, or the amount of time a human can focus on an object without any lapse at all, is very brief and may just be a matter of seconds. After this amount of time, it is likely that an individual's eyes will shift focus, or that a stray thought will briefly enter consciousness. Fortunately, these short lapses are only minimally distracting and do not tend to interfere with task performance.

We all know the feeling we get when we start to lose attention -- recognize it and use it. If you are down on a shot and start losing focus -- it's time to stand up, chalk, glance at the TV or a pretty waitress, and start over. After losing attention when practicing, a person may restore it (as JoeW pointed out) by taking a rest/doing a different kind of activity.

During practice -- don't be stubborn when the feeling hits and take the "I'm going to keep shooting this shot until I make it" attitude because doing so just reinforces those bad muscle memories that got you practicing that shot to begin with. After finally making it once you've tried (let's say) a dozen times, take a short break to figure out what you were doing wrong and what you did to correct things. After the break, set yourself a reasonable goal -- say making it 8 out of 10 tries. Make note of the problems and solutions and increase your goal to (say) 18 out of 20 tries the next training session. Now, start all over, this time considering position play. Again, set the goal low and work up.

Dinner time -- gotta run. Hope this was of some help!

Bob
 
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