What is your PSR?

[SpiderWebComm]

Gravity "Here on Earth" came into existence when Earth came into being, not before. :wink:

I have already confessed my PSR earlier in this thread, and though I try to adhere to it on every shot, I occasionally bypass it on little tap in shots.

I agree with everything you say about body and particular feet alignment -- it should be automatic, requiring no conscious thought.

Sorry and my mistake for either not seeing it or passing over it. Would you mind copy and pasting what you posted about your PSR again?

 

[Bobkitty]

Gravity "Here on Earth" came into existence when Earth came into being, not before. :wink:



I have already confessed my PSR earlier in this thread, and though I try to adhere to it on every shot, I occasionally bypass it on little tap in shots.

A friend has talked me onto playing the BCA 8ball league for the first time in a few years. Last night I won all 5 five games, missing only 1 shot. That shot was the 8ball playing a great player (Fargo score of 721). He broke dry and I ran a perfectly executed run out. My focus on each shot was position, not thinking about aiming or whether or not any particular shot was thin or thick. I ran 3 of my racks and honestly don't remember aiming at anything.

I automatically played my psr rhythm without conciously thinking about it. Then when I got to the 8 in my 5th game, a thought creeped into my brain that said, 'don't hit the 2 and 6, so in case you miss this cut you won't sell out'. Instead of keeping with my rhythm and just firing the ball in, I let a sliver of doubt work it's way into my head. I tell others to be the type of player that sees what you want to happen, not what you're afraid might happen. But it's hard to do sometimes. So I missed the 8 by about half an inch, and luckily for me my opponent tried to breakout that 2-6 and scratched. The guy probably scratches once every few months!

I agree with everything you say about body and particular feet alignment -- it should be automatic, requiring no conscious thought.

Nice playing! Was that a 7' table or a 9'? I agree, that if you have any doubts in your head, you're probably going to miss the shot.
I would love to ask the CTE guys ( 4 or 5 on here) if they had a severe aiming problem and they were looking for some sort of leeway before delving into the system? I have to suppose if they were aiming okay, they would not shoot for something strange....

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I can't speak for everyone but probably most everyone including Stan who was already a very accomplished player, certified BCA instructor, and high finisher in the US Open and other tournaments.

All of us would have beat you like a drum prior to CTE with the stage you are currently in or ever hope to be.

We weren't interested in changing anything. But when introduced to it by Hal Houle,
we were all captivated, intrigued, curious and hooked on how something like this which was so outside the box could pocket balls with such accuracy due to unheard of alignment and visuals. It was a stunning revelation.

We accepted it as a challenge and desire to learn more. Others are closed minded and either give up immediately or bad mouth what they don't know.

But hey, to each their own. Everybody just needs to be happy. My wish is this bashing sh!t would all go away. We don't care what anyone uses and have to intentions of jamming it down throats for change. Do whatever floats your boat, but don't tell ME ANYTHING about what I do and choose to do. Stay out of my business.

 

[BC21]

Nice playing! Was that a 7' table or a 9'? I agree, that if you have any doubts in your head, you're probably going to miss the shot.
I would love to ask the CTE guys ( 4 or 5 on here) if they had a severe aiming problem and they were looking for some sort of leeway before delving into the system? I have to suppose if they were aiming okay, they would not shoot for something strange....

The cute little 7' Diamond tables. Fairly easy to play.

 

[BC21]

............
We accepted it as a challenge and desire to learn more. Others are closed minded and either give up immediately or bad mouth what they don't know.

But hey, to each their own. Everybody just needs to be happy. My wish is this bashing sh!t would all go away. We don't care what anyone uses and have to intentions of jamming it down throats for change. Do whatever floats your boat, but don't tell ME ANYTHING about what I do and choose to do. Stay out of my business.

Well said. I think most are like you and other CTE users. They are curious, intrigued, and this curiosity bti gs probing questions. When it can't easily be explained or immediately useable in it's complete accuracy, curiosity turns to frustration/confusion/doubt.

 

[cookie man]

Nice playing! Was that a 7' table or a 9'? I agree, that if you have any doubts in your head, you're probably going to miss the shot.
I would love to ask the CTE guys ( 4 or 5 on here) if they had a severe aiming problem and they were looking for some sort of leeway before delving into the system? I have to suppose if they were aiming okay, they would not shoot for something strange....

No i had no aiming problem before CTE. CTE is the complete playing system though and definitely improved my game. I picked it up right away, a 10 minute call to Hal. I've followed Stan's refining all the way through.
PS CTE is not "strange" but feel free to keep throwing your little digs into something you know nothing about. Makes you look like the "strange" one.

 

[greyghost]

Funniest thing I've read in a long time!!!:grin:

It's just the truth. Sometimes I hit land and it's like I can't fuggin drive.

And yet another good reason I don't adhere to that horse stance cocked pool stance , I honestly feel that I may fall over at times such as I've described. Snooker style for me for many many moon


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[BC21]

Sorry and my mistake for either not seeing it or passing over it. Would you mind copy and pasting what you posted about your PSR again?

I skip over comments and half read things sometimes also.

Here's what posted as my psr:

I scope the table prior to each shot, not a complete walk around everytime, but at least a view from the OB to the pocket and a quick full-table scope to make sure what I am thinking of doing is my best option. I might have a plan to shoot 4 or 5 balls really quickly and know exactly where and how to move the CB for each one, but a glance around the table between shots can sometimes reveal a better option or a previously unseen opportunity. This is also when I'm chalking my cue.

Then I stand behind the CB and imagine exactly what I intend to do, getting a feel for exactly how much speed or spin is needed. I imagine the CB striking the OB, and sometimes I even make a little suction-like click sound between my tongue and the roof of my mouth...lol...seriously. I imagine the OB going to the pocket and the CB going where I intend it to go. All of this occurs in less than about 4 or 5 seconds. Longer on more difficult or tricky shots.

Next I step into the shot, paying no attention to exactly where my feet are being placed. They go where they need to go in order for my stroke to be in tune with the alignment of the shot. As I bend over into the stance and place my bridge hand on the table, I sort of bounce the butt of the cue around loose in my hand while fine-tuning my alignment, like the waggle I do just before taking a swing at a golf ball. Sometimes my bridge is open, sometimes it's closed, and it just happens automatically depending on the shot. I don't think about it.

I stroke the cue several times with a normal grip, then take three slower strokes [2 or 3], the first two verifying my shot/aim line [typically an intuitive shot line], and the final one closing the deal. I release that final stroke and stay down until the ball hits the pocket, unless I have to move out of the way.

Of course I end up bypassing or rushing this process occasionally, taking a shot for granted, etc...

 

[greyghost]

I should also add I guess my back hand stays glued to my hip when I stand behind the ball and I see through my shaft and walk it in and drop down like a sliding my hand into position in the cloth.

90+% of My aiming happens when I'm standing.

Anything I've ever prescribed in my vids is exactly what I do.

When I'm playing my best I don't even look back and forth my eyes stay on my objective target. For a big draw I will use my PEP


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[stan shuffett]

Well said. I think most are like you and other CTE users. They are curious, intrigued, and this curiosity bti gs probing questions. When it can't easily be explained or immediately useable in it's complete accuracy, curiosity turns to frustration/confusion/doubt.

It's no secret that scores of pros have said that they can't explain how they aim, they just do it. If they had their noses behind the center cue ball doing the 1 line routine they wouldn't be baffled about their aiming. Truth of the matter is, the pros mostly align at an offset to CCB and they can't explain what happens between there and CCB. If they could.....the learning curve would likely be longer than that of CTE. Bottom line....if one wants to aim like a pro it takes work.....there will be a learning curve.

Stan Shuffett

 

[Bobkitty]

No i had no aiming problem before CTE. CTE is the complete playing system though and definitely improved my game. I picked it up right away, a 10 minute call to Hal. I've followed Stan's refining all the way through.
PS CTE is not "strange" but feel free to keep throwing your little digs into something you know nothing about. Makes you look like the "strange" one.

No "digs" there, just curious why someone would want to jump into the pivots, seeing the lines that can't be produced, etc. from their normal pool stroke. I'm guessing they just had troubles somewhere.

 

[stan shuffett]

No "digs" there, just curious why someone would want to jump into the pivots, seeing the lines that can't be produced, etc. from their normal pool stroke. I'm guessing they just had troubles somewhere.

Your ignorance shines brightly!

There is no real pivoting--PERIOD!

The lines CAN be seen and aligned to.

TROUBLES......Traditional aiming and alignment are where the troubles begin. The idea of putting one's vision directly behind CCB is what keeps many, many players and would-be players searching for an alternative because they know deep down there's a problem with that it.....Its called inconsistency.

Stan Shuffett

 

[SkinnyPete]

I heard that Aaron Hernandez was pretty advanced in CTE.

 

[greyghost]

I heard that Aaron Hernandez was pretty advanced in CTE.

Yeah but the ruling in the field was his feet didn't get down fast enough


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[BC21]

It's no secret that scores of pros have said that they can't explain how they aim, they just do it. If they had their noses behind the center cue ball doing the 1 line routine they wouldn't be baffled about their aiming. Truth of the matter is, the pros mostly align at an offset to CCB and they can't explain what happens between there and CCB. If they could.....the learning curve would likely be longer than that of CTE. Bottom line....if one wants to aim like a pro it takes work.....there will be a learning curve.

Stan Shuffett

Most all of the greatest players in the history of pool and billiards developed their aiming skills the old school way via rote, using ghostball, contact-to-contact point, or traditional fractional guesswork. Nothing suggests they are doing some mysterious visual that they aren't aware of doing.

Many pros are naturals who catch on quickly and develop skills much faster than the average player. There are also pros that must work harder than the average pro because they aren't naturals. The late Tony Ellin comes to mind.

And every pool player approaches the shot from an offset alignment because we stand with our bodies to one side in order for the cue stick to be located directly on the shot alignment.

Anyway, I believe most pros can't explain how they aim for the same reason I can't explain how I am, and probably the same reason you couldn't explain it before using cte. We've done it so long that it just feels natural, no mystery to it. It's like riding a bike....at first it's awkward and wobbly, then one day we ride a wheely around the the block and jump a row of pop bottles in the street. When another rider asks, "how do you do that?", we say "I don't know, I just do it."

 

[stan shuffett]

Most all of the greatest players in the history of pool and billiards developed their aiming skills the old school way via rote, using ghostball, contact-to-contact point, or traditional fractional guesswork. Nothing suggests they are doing some mysterious visual that they aren't aware of doing.

Many pros are naturals who catch on quickly and develop skills much faster than the average player. There are also pros that must work harder than the average pro because they aren't naturals. The late Tony Ellin comes to mind.

Every pool player approaches the shot from an offset alignment because we stand with our bodies to one side of in order for the cue stick to be located directly on the shot alignment. Most pros can't explain how they aim for the same reason I can't explain how I am, and probably the same reason you couldn't explain it before using cte. We've done it so long that it just feels natural, no mystery to it. It's like riding a bike....at first it's awkward and wobbly, then one day we ride a wheely around the the block and jump a row of pop bottles in the street. When another rider asks, "how do you do that?", we say "I don't know, I just do it."

Most pros started out one way, the wrong way, and evolved into the correct way and can't explain it. Many get stuck in the wrong way spinning their wheels and can't evolve.

Tony Ellen was a solid athlete with very good visual physical skills.

Body offset is one thing and a visual offset is another.

There is a mystery because no one has nailed down the exact offsets details and how to get to CCB......Once that's available.....the mystery is over. A player can play for 50 years and never get there or with exact known info get there in a short time such as weeks or months. Sorry, doing it like a pro ain't happening overnight.

The thing about how to really align....it can be explained rather than I just do it.

Stan Shuffett

 

[Dan White]

For Christ sake. Here you are again about gravity in a PSR thread and nothing to accurately describe YOUR PSR in detail which you claim to be one of the most important factors of your game.

Do you know why I posted what I did yesterday after you made this post?

" Dan White Post: "Newton invented the field of physics and wrote down the laws of motion, but he did not understand what CAUSED gravity. Einstein explained it. That was my point." YOUR POST.

I'll tell you why. "Isaac Newton said that gravity is proportional to mass, and Albert Einstein showed that the gravity is expressed through the curvature of space. Although these were both important advances in our understanding of gravity, neither one addresses the CAUSE of gravity. This article therefore proposes to identify what causes the curving of space-time which is the expression of gravity, and to incorporate gravity into a unified equation with matter and energy.

IT'S THE WORD CAUSE.

https://arxiv.org/html/physics/9902044

Dave, just let it go. You google "cause" and "gravity" and come up with what looks like a 20 year old thesis paper. You are cherry picking sentences to try and make me look bad, but is isn't working. Here, how about this quote from the same paper:

"the search for the force which warps space and therefore CAUSES gravity, must begin within the nucleus of atoms."

Translation: Einstein showed that gravity is a result of space warping. The fact that this (very intelligent) guy is trying to figure out why space warps at the quantum level does not change that fact. He even postulates that the strong force creates mass and therefore warps space at that level. Hello! that's what Einstein said at the macro level.

Now on to a more difficult subject, aiming a stick at a ball:

NOW LAY OUT YOUR PSR THAT HELPED THE STROKE, MR. STROKE.

Forget it, Dave. You keep saying that and I keep posting my PSR yet you continue to say I never did. I've done it at least twice in recent history that I recall -- I'm pretty sure in this very thread.

which you claim to be one of the most important factors of your game.

I have never said that about PSR, at least not in recent memory. What I DID say is that the ability to deliver the cue in a straight line through the cue ball is far, far more important than aiming. Stroking the cue straight can give aiming the 1-out and all the breaks.

 

[Dan White]

Gravity was one of the fundamental forces from the inception of the universe way before Earth came into being and a large part of how Earth was formed.

Oh, one last thing and I'll let it go if you do. Your boy from Cornell said that gravity is not a fundamental force ... just sayin'.

 

[cookie man]

No "digs" there, just curious why someone would want to jump into the pivots, seeing the lines that can't be produced, etc. from their normal pool stroke. I'm guessing they just had troubles somewhere.

No troubles, i played pretty good before CTE and noticeably better after learning CTE.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Dave, just let it go. You google "cause" and "gravity" and come up with what looks like a 20 year old thesis paper. You are cherry picking sentences to try and make me look bad, but is isn't working. Here, how about this quote from the same paper:

There has been nothing new in the last 16 years to add to it. Btw, you did your best yesterday to make me look bad by twisting and distorting what I said into something entirely different.

"the search for the force which warps space and therefore CAUSES gravity, must begin within the nucleus of atoms."

Translation: Einstein showed that gravity is a result of space warping. The fact that this (very intelligent) guy is trying to figure out why space warps at the quantum level does not change that fact. He even postulates that the strong force creates mass and therefore warps space at that level. Hello! that's what Einstein said at the macro level.

I have no problem with the statement for space and time travel with the speed of light and space warping It still doesn't identify what causes gravity. The NASA website basically said it doesn't know what gravity is. Here is their quote:

Question:

What is gravity?

Answer:

We don't really know. We can define what it is as a field of influence, because we know how it operates in the universe. And some scientists think that it is made up of particles called gravitons which travel at the speed of light. However, if we are to be honest, we do not know what gravity "is" in any fundamental way - we only know how it behaves.

It doesn't say what causes it or what gravity is made of. THEY DON'T KNOW. If NASA doesn't know, we certainly have nothing to add.

Sure, I'll drop it now if you do. I'm not an astrophysicist and neither are you. Our combined knowledge of astrophysics would be about the size of a gnat turd compared to those who are astrophysicists with a lifetime of experience who wrote the articles.


Now on to a more difficult subject, aiming a stick at a ball:

Forget it, Dave. You keep saying that and I keep posting my PSR yet you continue to say I never did. I've done it at least twice in recent history that I recall -- I'm pretty sure in this very thread.

As with Brian, I may have missed it. Would you please copy and paste it? If you did post it, I must have thought it wasn't very detailed and quite vague. But, I could be wrong and will definitely say I'm wrong if it was detailed.

I have never said that about PSR, at least not in recent memory. What I DID say is that the ability to deliver the cue in a straight line through the cue ball is far, far more important than aiming. Stroking the cue straight can give aiming the 1-out and all the breaks.

I agree, stroking the cue is extremely important. Both aiming and stroking are Like shooting a gun accurately or sniper rifle the aiming part is extremely important AS WELL AS the execution of trigger control with the finger and breathing so the pistol/rifle isn't jerked ever so slightly off line. BOTH have to be in sync and executed properly just like aiming and stroking for pool. Have you ever seen what snipers go through for aiming to hit a target a mile away that MUST be made to take out an enemy? There's math for distance, wind, humidity and the crosshairs have to be calibrated perfectly to fit all of the parameters or it will result in a MISS. You can't sit there and tell me aiming in pool is any less important. You wouldn't say it if you had a shot at the last ball or any balls over 11 racks like Earl did to win a million dollars.

Stroking the cue isn't an independent action all on it's own. The stance and all the other fundamentals which many check in their PSR determines the straightness and effectiveness of the stroke.


GRAVITY, DONE. (unless more is forthcoming)