What makes cues from purchased blanks sell for big $$$$

manwon

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
I have been thinking lately about all the cues I have been seeing that are selling for $700 + that are made from purchased blanks. To be clear, what I am talking about specifically are simple Sneaky Pete / non-veneer pointed cues. Cues that fall into this category have basic points like house cues, possibly rings in the collars at the joint, with a butt cap and rings possible at that location. In most cases these cues come with a single shaft, but even if they have two, I just can't justify why these cues cost what they do. When for the same money cues built with blanks made by a good cue maker can be purchased for a similar price and in some cases cheaper.

Could the problem be that people buy impulsively without truly understanding what they have purchased. Or are certainly cue makers being tight lipped and intentionally putting the perception out there that they are making these cues themselves and not using purchased blanks. Now what would be a good way for buyers to access cues they are buying so they really get what they think they are getting without being deceived.

Everyones ideas and comments are welcome and certainly could be helpful to all forum members.

Thanks in advance
 
Buzz, name recognition, hype, marketing whatever you want to call it. Supply and demand in some cases. What could Barry Szamboti sell a batch of 10 sneaky's for? They would be jam up sneaky's but sneaky's none the less and I would bet the prices would make some people weak and others would buy all they could find.

IMO trying to figure out the cue market and come up with a rational explanation for some things is a quick way to give yourself a headache.
 
manwon said:
I have been thinking lately about all the cues I have been seeing that are selling for $700 + that are made from purchased blanks. To be clear, what I am talking about specifically are simple Sneaky Pete / non-veneer pointed cues. Cues that fall into this category have basic points like house cues, possibly rings in the collars at the joint, with a butt cap and rings possible at that location. In most cases these cues come with a single shaft, but even if they have two, I just can't justify why these cues cost what they do. When for the same money cues built with blanks made by a good cue maker can be purchased for a similar price and in some cases cheaper.

Could the problem be that people buy impulsively without truly understanding what they have purchased. Or are certainly cue makers being tight lipped and intentionally putting the perception out there that they are making these cues themselves and not using purchased blanks. Now what would be a good way for buyers to access cues they are buying so they really get what they think they are getting without being deceived.

Everyones ideas and comments are welcome and certainly could be helpful to all forum members.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
I have been building cue's for years. When I first broke into the business I was buying pre-made blanks. After about a year I started building all of my forearms myself. Now I still buy full splice blanks. I also tell my customer before they order a sneaky pete that they are blanks that are ordered in. Everything else I build in house except steel components and bumpers.

I have posted this before. The only stupid question is the one not asked.
I spend hours on the phone with customers, potential customers, and the curious people.

I guess my opinion on this thread is that most don't ask the questions they probably should when buying a cue. So when you guys are going to order a cue or even purchase a new or used cue, ALWAYS ask for every detial you can get about what you are purchasing. This way you will not have any left for guess work.

I think that most cue builders want there customers to be well informed of what they are getting. If not, maybe you should consider another builder.

DOUG PATRICK
618-709-2615
http://www.patrickcustomcues.com
 
I have a question

manwon said:
I have been thinking lately about all the cues I have been seeing that are selling for $700 + that are made from purchased blanks. To be clear, what I am talking about specifically are simple Sneaky Pete / non-veneer pointed cues. Cues that fall into this category have basic points like house cues, possibly rings in the collars at the joint, with a butt cap and rings possible at that location. In most cases these cues come with a single shaft, but even if they have two, I just can't justify why these cues cost what they do. When for the same money cues built with blanks made by a good cue maker can be purchased for a similar price and in some cases cheaper.

Could the problem be that people buy impulsively without truly understanding what they have purchased. Or are certainly cue makers being tight lipped and intentionally putting the perception out there that they are making these cues themselves and not using purchased blanks. Now what would be a good way for buyers to access cues they are buying so they really get what they think they are getting without being deceived.

Everyones ideas and comments are welcome and certainly could be helpful to all forum members.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

I would like to know what makers are making 700 dollar sneaky petes as well as who the people are that are buying them. I have a very nice Tim Scruggs sneaky pete that I bet I COULDN"T sell right now for 700 dollars.

Thanks

Kevin
 
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patrickcues said:
I have been building cue's for years. When I first broke into the business I was buying pre-made blanks. After about a year I started building all of my forearms myself. Now I still buy full splice blanks. I also tell my customer before they order a sneaky pete that they are blanks that are ordered in. Everything else I build in house except steel components and bumpers.

I have posted this before. The only stupid question is the one not asked.
I spend hours on the phone with customers, potential customers, and the curious people.

I guess my opinion on this thread is that most don't ask the questions they probably should when buying a cue. So when you guys are going to order a cue or even purchase a new or used cue, ALWAYS ask for every detial you can get about what you are purchasing. This way you will not have any left for guess work.

I think that most cue builders want there customers to be well informed of what they are getting. If not, maybe you should consider another builder.

DOUG PATRICK
618-709-2615
http://www.patrickcustomcues.com
Click to expand...

I totally agree with everything you have said, but then why would a Blank made by Schmelke that cost around $60 with minimal work in it sell for $1000 to $1600. I understand that this is a free market and that a cues market value is according to the builder. But I do not care who built the cue, a pin, a set of joint collars, and butt cap and bumper do not justify those kind of prices. Now Doug, if the builder advertised their cues as purchased blanks or at least confirmed it and people want to buy these cues that is great. But I think what you touch upon is closer to the truth, that people really have no idea what they are buying. In my opinion most sellers are not forth coming with the information about the blanks in question.

By the way, I am also originally from St. Louis, or should I say Maryland heights. Where exactly are you located and do you know Jim Buss? Jim is a great guy, I have not been home for some time, but I always stop by to see Jim when I am back there. Also do you ever go to Cue and Cushion Billiards? I use to spent a great deal of time there in my youth.

Take care
 
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Kevin Lindstrom said:
I would like to know what makers are making 700 dollar sneaky petes as well as who the people are that are buying them. I have a very nice Tim Scruggs sneaky pete that I bet I COULDN"T sell right now for 700 dollars.

Thanks

Kevin
Click to expand...

Kevin, first let me say this not directed against anyone in general, but here is a cue for sale on the forum as we speak!! The cue is obviously a Schmelke Blank and when dealing with any full splice blank there is not a great deal you can do to it. Other than some coreing for balance, and weight control, and the limited modifications what makes the cue so special?

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=108193&highlight=sugartree

The cue originally sold for $1600, was refinished and repaired by the builder and is now for sale again, I hope this helps.
 
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patrickcues said:
I have been building cue's for years. When I first broke into the business I was buying pre-made blanks. After about a year I started building all of my forearms myself. Now I still buy full splice blanks. I also tell my customer before they order a sneaky pete that they are blanks that are ordered in. Everything else I build in house except steel components and bumpers.

I have posted this before. The only stupid question is the one not asked.
I spend hours on the phone with customers, potential customers, and the curious people.

I guess my opinion on this thread is that most don't ask the questions they probably should when buying a cue. So when you guys are going to order a cue or even purchase a new or used cue, ALWAYS ask for every detial you can get about what you are purchasing. This way you will not have any left for guess work.

I think that most cue builders want there customers to be well informed of what they are getting. If not, maybe you should consider another builder.

DOUG PATRICK
618-709-2615
http://www.patrickcustomcues.com
Click to expand...


Doug, this answer has a lot of information in it but it doesn't answer the question. The question is why do $60.00 forearm blanks made by Shmelke get a $1,000+ price tag put on them once a cue maker gets their hands on it?
MULLY
 
I spoke to a cuemaker yesterday on this,people paying $400+ for sneaky petes that are conversion house cues when they can buy something handmade from scratch for about the same price. :cool:
 
manwon said:
Kevin, first let me say this not directed against anyone in general, but here is a cue for sale on the forum as we speak!! The cue is obviously a Schmelke Blank and when dealing with any full splice blank there is not a great deal you can do to it. Other than some coreing for balance, and weight control, and the limited modifications what makes the cue so special?

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=108193&highlight=sugartree

The cue originally sold for $1600, was refinished and repaired by the builder and is now for sale again, I hope this helps.
Click to expand...


I agree that the cue in the other thread is very nice, I truely love the look of that cue. On the other hand I would be hard pressed to pay 1600 for that cue or any other without veneers, ringwork and some inlays. In addition regardless of how hot the cuemaker(s) are and with the market the way that it is right now I will be surprised if this cue sells very fast even at 900 dollars. I hope I am proven wrong and the seller is able to move the cue and get his price. I have a number of nice cues that I too whould like to sell but I surely am not going to give them away just in order to thin down my inventory. I know for myself I would rather have a handfull of 4 point 4 veneer cues at the 1000 dollar mark than 1 equavalent cue at the 2000-2500 dollar mark.
 
Kevin Lindstrom said:
I agree that the cue in the other thread is very nice, I truely love the look of that cue. On the other hand I would be hard pressed to pay 1600 for that cue or any other without veneers, ringwork and some inlays. In addition regardless of how hot the cuemaker(s) are and with the market the way that it is right now I will be surprised if this cue sells very fast even at 900 dollars. I hope I am proven wrong and the seller is able to move the cue and get his price. I have a number of nice cues that I too whould like to sell but I surely am not going to give them away just in order to thin down my inventory. I know for myself I would rather have a handfull of 4 point 4 veneer cues at the 1000 dollar mark than 1 equavalent cue at the 2000-2500 dollar mark.
Click to expand...

Currently I do not think the market even matters, or how hot the cue maker may be. I think it is a question of two things uneducated buyers, and some sellers who skirt the line between honesty and dishonesty. Two many times cues are offered for sale with little or know information about the construction and some sellers will tap dance around the fact that the blanks were purchased. This is my opinion on this subject, and I think it is only going to get worst in the near future, as more people decide to build cues. We can only hope they have some integrity because money isn't everything, and long term they will get found out anyway. The only thing that bothers me is that the buyers are the ones who truly get screwed in the end.


Take Care
 
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manwon said:
Kevin, first let me say this not directed against anyone in general, but here is a cue for sale on the forum as we speak!! The cue is obviously a Schmelke Blank and when dealing with any full splice blank there is not a great deal you can do to it. Other than some coreing for balance, and weight control, and the limited modifications what makes the cue so special?

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=108193&highlight=sugartree

The cue originally sold for $1600, was refinished and repaired by the builder and is now for sale again, I hope this helps.
Click to expand...


when did it ever sell for 1600? I know the history of that cue fairly well, and don't remember it ever selling for that.

Yes its a blank, but I can tell you from experience that Eric's sneaky's play better than 99.9% of the cues I've owned. Yes its a high price for a sneaky, but so what. Supply and demand. Most of the Scruggs cues that were purchased for 200 or less, played with until they have 12.5 shafts or smaller, now sell for 600 or more. I'd say at least half of them were 150 new or less, so they have a 450 dollar mark up and are usually beat to hell.

Reason is that they play well and there is a demand. I also think they were the sneaky's that started the higher prices on these cues.
 
Craig, One factor I think you're missing is the work of some cuemakers is more valuable than others, even if the parts and raw materials are the same. This is true in crafts other than cues, like custom made guitars. I understand and sympathize to some extent with your general point of overpriced house cue conversions. In 1983, I bought an ebony Dufferin cue, sawed butt off at about 32 inches and shipped it to Gus Szamboti. In about 3 months I received an ebony sneaky pete with 2 shafts with ivory ferrules. The cue had 3/8-10 pin flat face and no joint collar. At the time I paid $300 for the cue. Same year I paid $235 for a new South West merry widow. What do you suppose the cue would be worth today and why? How many petes like mine do you think Gus made? It can't be the blank or the materials, they can still be bought.

Martin



manwon said:
I have been thinking lately about all the cues I have been seeing that are selling for $700 + that are made from purchased blanks. To be clear, what I am talking about specifically are simple Sneaky Pete / non-veneer pointed cues. Cues that fall into this category have basic points like house cues, possibly rings in the collars at the joint, with a butt cap and rings possible at that location. In most cases these cues come with a single shaft, but even if they have two, I just can't justify why these cues cost what they do. When for the same money cues built with blanks made by a good cue maker can be purchased for a similar price and in some cases cheaper.

Could the problem be that people buy impulsively without truly understanding what they have purchased. Or are certainly cue makers being tight lipped and intentionally putting the perception out there that they are making these cues themselves and not using purchased blanks. Now what would be a good way for buyers to access cues they are buying so they really get what they think they are getting without being deceived.

Everyones ideas and comments are welcome and certainly could be helpful to all forum members.

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
 
cubswin said:
when did it ever sell for 1600? I know the history of that cue fairly well, and don't remember it ever selling for that.

Yes its a blank, but I can tell you from experience that Eric's sneaky's play better than 99.9% of the cues I've owned. Yes its a high price for a sneaky, but so what. Supply and demand. Most of the Scruggs cues that were purchased for 200 or less, played with until they have 12.5 shafts or smaller, now sell for 600 or more. I'd say at least half of them were 150 new or less, so they have a 450 dollar mark up and are usually beat to hell.

Reason is that they play well and there is a demand. I also think they were the sneaky's that started the higher prices on these cues.
Click to expand...

That cue was picked as an example, but while we are on this subject what makes it worth or hit any better than any other Sneaky Pete. That was the true purpose of this thread, so please explain what makes it special, I am serious I am not being sarcastic.

Thanks and please answer the question!!
 
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jazznpool said:
Craig, One factor I think you're missing is the work of some cuemakers is more valuable than others, even if the parts and raw materials are the same. This is true in crafts other than cues, like custom made guitars. I understand and sympathize to some extent with your general point of overpriced house cue conversions. In 1983, I bought an ebony Dufferin cue, sawed butt off at about 32 inches and shipped it to Gus Szamboti. In about 3 months I received an ebony sneaky pete with 2 shafts with ivory ferrules. The cue had 3/8-10 pin flat face and no joint collar. At the time I paid $300 for the cue. Same year I paid $235 for a new South West merry widow. What do you suppose the cue would be worth today and why? How many petes like mine do you think Gus made? It can't be the blank or the materials, they can still be bought.

Martin
Click to expand...

Hello Martin, and appreciate your opinion but comparing Gus as an example to anyone making Sneaky Pete's today is not realistic. Again the cue pictured was only an example that was easily at hand. However, it is a good example of what I am talking about and since everyone keeps bringing that cue up maybe it should be the example.

First Jazz, there is only so much that can be done with these cues, for the most part the hit is going to be determined by the blank, shaft and tip. With that said, if the blank was a purchased blank, all a builder can do is core it for weight and balance and install a pin, collar and rings for decoration.

Jazz, all I can say is that the materials and man hour's are not there for the big$$$$$$$;) and the point is proved time and time again when the buyer loses his ass when he tries to sell these cues.

Thanks Jazz
 
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I cant answer why a $60.00 blank from Schmelke would sell for $1000.00 or more. I don't price them like that. I would guess that you would need to ask the maker in question about that. I would assume in my opinion that people are just paying for the "NAME". As we know that there is a lot of us builders that build just as good quality playing cue as them for a better price. I personally can't see charging that kind of price for this. Example. I am having a full splice made out of certain exotic woods and I am only charging $550.00 But, I am also sending them the wood to build it out of.

Manwon:

I live in Hazelwood,Mo not far from you old area. I used to go over to Cue and Cushion years ago. Not so much any more. I can't seem to find the time to leave me shop enough to go out and play. Give me a call next time your around this way. We can get some lunch.

DOUG
 
manwon said:
. Two many times cues are offered for sale with little or know information about the construction and some sellers will tap dance around the fact that the blanks were purchased.
Click to expand...
Eric has stated in post in the ask cue makers section before that he purchases full spliced blanks.
 
will8834 said:
Eric has stated in post in the ask cue makers section before that he purchases full spliced blanks.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that information, however, let me say this is not about Eric, the cue pictured was only used as an example.

Take Care
 
manwon said:
That cue was picked as an example, but while we are on this subject what makes it worth or hit any better than any other Sneaky Pete. That was the true purpose of this thread, so please explain what makes it special, I am serious I am not being sarcastic.

Thanks and please answer the question!!
Click to expand...

I can't tell you why they play so well. What I can tell you is I've owned probably 60 sneaky petes. Probably 3/4 of them have been duffern conversions, and the rest blanks from prather and Shmelke. Three of them stand out the most in my mind. One was a sugartree, one is the Joey Bautista I'm playing with, and the other is the MasonH cue I'm selling. In the case of Mason's it was his wood that he had made into a blank.

I suspect the shaftwood, balance, and the tapers are why the play so well over the other cues. In my opinion those have been the best three. After that I'd go with scruggs sneaky's when you can find a good one that hasn't been sanded down over the years. Thats a challenge most of the time, and the mint ones bring in the 700 range now. Know from buying them when they were still making them that is a 500-575 dollar mark up depending on when they were new. Shoot we used to buy those cues as break cues and bar beaters.

Eric's cues are very fairly priced from him, the problem is its hard to get one from him so in the secondary market the prices are higher. For the first couple years I knew about his cues I saw one for sale, and then people realized they could charge a premium and they started popping up for sale. I sold mine because I needed some cash, and I wasn't playing at the time because of my back. I didn't hold out for the best deal, just sold it for a slight mark up over the cost of new. I figure if I charge 100-150 over new cost on something you can't even order new anymore then thats fair. I'd gladly pay the same premium for one now if I had the change.
 
simple answer: supply and demand.

complex answer: people who hype up a cue and try to make a profit...and those that are looking for a magic stick that will make them play like a god.
 
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