What makes the Filipinos SO STRONG!

[ShootingArts]

fire in the gut

Edwin,

A very few people are born with a competitive fire in their gut. They truly need no incentive except a competition, almost any kind of competition. Your doctor friend sounds like one of those few. They don't need to gamble to get tough, they don't need the seasoning of the rough life on the road, as far as competition goes they were born tough. Practice and experience make them able to perform better on the table just like anyone else but the mental game is almost all there as a gift they were born with.

Hu

Andam hit LOW third tier before he left for the US. The up and coming kids just weren't scared of him anymore. But, following what has been going on in tournaments there it sure looks like Andam got his hunger back and is starting to enjoy the game again.

The whole pool scenario here in the Philippines has evolved. Gone are the days when the lower players are awestruck just watching the top tier. So many players are moving up and tangling with the big guys that if you go by Win-Loss records the heirarchy will be so different than what most think.

It is not like before when playing knowledge was not freely shared for players to have that slight advantage. This last year, BMPAP first year, our progress in developing players have been truly amazing. The top keeps getting pushed to give all they've got because these young guys keep on getting ever so close. No respect at all anymore, no fear. We can have a Filipino Invasion all over again. All unknowns and they'd make waves there in the USA. For a sneak peek, ask Mika about Jordan.

Too, I'm starting to think that the "financially poor" angle is a myth. There is a doctor here, Internal Medicine, who just got the breaks from Alex and Alex conceded at 6-0 in a short race to 9. Amazing display of run-out and defensive game! This doctor just loves playing the game. We'd sit in my shop for hours and talk pool. Cue performance, shot execution, conditioning, mental game, breaking down shot mechanics, matches we both watched, history, instructional books, etc. So really, all the reasons mentioned in this thread helped the progress and evolution but the bottom line is just the "love of playing the game".

 

[sputnik]

Something to think about:

Why does it need an extended trip abroad for a pinoy to get better in his game? Or in the case of Andam, to have a resurgence in his game?

From Parica, to Efren, to Django.... Alcano was a mere aspirant before his Joss dominance. Alex was practically known only in a Pasay poolhall before he left for Canada... Marlon Manalo was an unknown snooker titleholder until America. Dennis wasn't Dennis even after Cardiff until he spent time in America. If Edwin's doctor friend spends some time in America, he'd probably make a name.

In other words, nationalism aside, the Philippines is truly the breeding ground for pool players. Bring world tournaments with the world's best players to the Philippines and you will always see the likes of a Roberto Gomez climbing up the ladder of international fame. Bring a Doctor Jun to America and perhaps he too might make waves.

Being able to climb to fame only when abroad is due to (with all due respect) a less competitive environment outside the country. Yes, there are pool generals say in America, but they do not have armies under them. Outside the Philippines, the ratio of the number of fan/club-player base to the number of professional players is wider creating an environment of reachable fame. So this is probably why the Filipinos are internationally prominent in the game.

But I believe that between the best of the best among different countries, yes the Philippines is strong, but USA, Taiwan, England, Germany and some other countries are likewise capable.

 

[bandido]

Bandido, I always enjoy you sharing stories on the Philippine pool scene. I am most intrigued about hearing about the younger generation of Filipino pool players. How about you showcase one of those kids here in this thread. Maybe share some stories on how they match, how he started (i'm assuming it's a boy) and their best or latest win. Thanks.

There are quite a number of up and comers here. Revo for one who beat Rodney in Korea. Edgie too performed well there and finished high. Just names that surprised everyone there. They were expecting the Philippines to send the "usuals" and not these unknowns. Johann, 16, recently beat Ko Pin Yi (World Juniors Champion). Ko and company are here preparing for the Guinness Tour. Jericho18 and Jonas 15 performed well there in Reno.

There's a new attitude here. These players, as all of us, do feel like cattle being herded and that we don't have any control on a lot of things in life. These guys realized that being on the pool table and playing great makes them like "god". Totally in control and they like that power.

By the way, Dennis won close to 1M Pesos this week alone. Simply on a tear. Beat Efren twice, Lee Van, Django, Ronnie and Alex once. And this is not playing 9 or 10 ball where he's strong but playing rotation where all those guys are known to be better at than him.

Carlo has a 100% winning pct and his last 2 matches are against Ko. The younger guys are playing guys 1-2 levels up.

Instruction from the top now is to play without spots. Reasoning is that even though the spot receipient beats the spot giver such doesn't help in any way for the player's development. If the spot giver wins then the receipient suffers a big blow to his confidence(counter-productive for player development). So now people will be watching a lot of even matches that they'll think are absurd....but not for long.

You may say "BS who'd back these high risk matches?" Risk takers of course, the gamblers and that's why our poolhalls are in poker parlours(did you notice the poker tables in that Corteza-Van Boening youtube video?). These pool match stakes are nothing compared to what these poker player stakehorses are accustomed to. There was a couple of weeks when the backers for these lower ranked players were taking a beating. Not anymore

 

[Mowem down]

First off, this is as much or more my USA than anybody else's. My family has been here since before there was a USA, several branches of it. If anybody leaves it won't be me. Get your butt in the air, like it or not, a well fed dog doesn't hunt like a hungry one. The same is true of pool players.

Hu

If Americans were so poor they couldnt afford jet skis, snow mobiles, R.V.s, oh yea those things called houses, then I guess they would have nothing better to do but swim for sponges and sleep under the tables after they got done playing for the money they got from selling sponges.
And trust me I know oh to well how motivating being poor is...

A well kept dog will out work a mutt any day. My family had a 40 stall kennel in Spokane Wa. I know alittle about dogs. If you would like to get it right someday it is true SOMTIMES "its not the size of the dog but the size of the fight in the dog" that matters

And the Indian wars werent declared over until my ancestor's stopped fighting out in Az. Your probably from one of those fat little coastal tribes that helped them live through the first winter... Thanks good move

 

[Mowem down]

That's pretty cynical. Didn't Johnny just match up with Larry Nevel a while back.

I think the pros would play each other for cheap practice sets. I don't know how many pros you know personally Celtic but I kind take offense to your statement on behalf of the ones I know.

At DCC you can in fact see pros matching up all the time. I vividly remember watching Corey Duel and Scott Frost matched up in one hole for $200 a game.

Most of these guys are buddies and have a mutual respect for each other's games. They are not nits.

And yeah, perhaps they should get paid to show up in certain situations. These are people who have put as much into being the best in their field as anyone else has in theirs. In a lot of other endeavors the "professional" does get paid just to "show up". Now we all know pool is different and yada yada but do you really have to add insult to injury here and dog the people who do live on the edge financially to entertain you?

My intention for this thread is NOT to dog the US pro players but instead to inspire them to get in the box a little more than they have been.

And I hope someone sends some sunshine your way.

It wasnt the thread that did it it was all the Americans have no heart cr*p..

And there is no need to worry because when you get done taking the family fortune and starting that mega million dollar tour =) all the basement players will be coming out and we'll own this game too...

 

[ShootingArts]

wrong on all counts

If Americans were so poor they couldnt afford jet skis, snow mobiles, R.V.s, oh yea those things called houses, then I guess they would have nothing better to do but swim for sponges and sleep under the tables after they got done playing for the money they got from selling sponges.
And trust me I know oh to well how motivating being poor is...

A well kept dog will out work a mutt any day. My family had a 40 stall kennel in Spokane Wa. I know alittle about dogs. If you would like to get it right someday it is true SOMTIMES "its not the size of the dog but the size of the fight in the dog" that matters

And the Indian wars werent declared over until my ancestor's stopped fighting out in Az. Your probably from one of those fat little coastal tribes that helped them live through the first winter... Thanks good move

Some people do a far better job of making themselves look like fools than I possibly could. The ignorance shown in your posts is staggering. Not knowing what a mutt is indicates your level of knowledge. Not knowing that Europeans were here for generations before the revolution is another good indication. "oh to well" is yet another fine indication!

Thanks, and keep up the good work!

Hu

 

[Mowem down]

Some people do a far better job of making themselves look like fools than I possibly could. The ignorance shown in your posts is staggering. Not knowing what a mutt is indicates your level of knowledge. Not knowing that Europeans were here for generations before the revolution is another good indication. "oh to well" is yet another fine indication!

Thanks, and keep up the good work!

Hu

Back at ya pal, mutt can be used in a general manner, where you came up with the revolution when I said Indian wars is awsome, and it has been well established that my typing and grammer skills are not that great but please point it out one more time. its also, oh so well known your the smartest clown on here at least in your mind. know go practice for another 3000 hrs and you might have yourself better convinced your sombody hu

 

[$TAKE HOR$E]

like Grady sasid, thats why they are good to take on the road.

 

[JoeyInCali]

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Chicken_Adobo.jpg

 

[JohnPT]

There are quite a number of up and comers here. Revo for one who beat Rodney in Korea. Edgie too performed well there and finished high. Just names that surprised everyone there. They were expecting the Philippines to send the "usuals" and not these unknowns. Johann, 16, recently beat Ko Pin Yi (World Juniors Champion). Ko and company are here preparing for the Guinness Tour. Jericho18 and Jonas 15 performed well there in Reno.

There's a new attitude here. These players, as all of us, do feel like cattle being herded and that we don't have any control on a lot of things in life. These guys realized that being on the pool table and playing great makes them like "god". Totally in control and they like that power.

By the way, Dennis won close to 1M Pesos this week alone. Simply on a tear. Beat Efren twice, Lee Van, Django, Ronnie and Alex once. And this is not playing 9 or 10 ball where he's strong but playing rotation where all those guys are known to be better at than him.

Carlo has a 100% winning pct and his last 2 matches are against Ko. The younger guys are playing guys 1-2 levels up.

Instruction from the top now is to play without spots. Reasoning is that even though the spot receipient beats the spot giver such doesn't help in any way for the player's development. If the spot giver wins then the receipient suffers a big blow to his confidence(counter-productive for player development). So now people will be watching a lot of even matches that they'll think are absurd....but not for long.

You may say "BS who'd back these high risk matches?" Risk takers of course, the gamblers and that's why our poolhalls are in poker parlours(did you notice the poker tables in that Corteza-Van Boening youtube video?). These pool match stakes are nothing compared to what these poker player stakehorses are accustomed to. There was a couple of weeks when the backers for these lower ranked players were taking a beating. Not anymore

Edwin, your stories making me look forward to my visit home before the end of the year. Thanks.

Dennis is by far my favorite player. I play better just watching him shoot. Last time I saw him was back in '02 maybe at "Pool House". Dennis played Django 9ball i think getting 1 game in a race to 16. He lost something like 16-2 then 16-3. You were there too by the way.
I was quite surprised some years later that he rose to become money game king of the Philippines. A feat probably far more difficult to achieve than a major imo.

 

[JB Cases]

It wasnt the thread that did it it was all the Americans have no heart cr*p..

And there is no need to worry because when you get done taking the family fortune and starting that mega million dollar tour =) all the basement players will be coming out and we'll own this game too...

You're right, if there was a mega-million dollar tour then we'd see a lot more players coming out of the woodwork.

We already saw that with the IPT.

The thing is that it's ludicrous to say that the Americans have no heart when they play so good that they can't get any action and yet they somehow still manage to get themselves to tournaments. I'd say in some ways they have a lot MORE HEART than the Filipinos who are "managed" and coddled with salaries and who are put in constant action by the people with money.

I can't stand and can't stomach the use of the word stables to describe the teams of players there. What are they? Animals to be bet on?

Americans have no teams of players with managed and salaried players. Each American player is pretty much on his own most of the time, sometimes forming partnerships with other players to share expenses and watch each other's backs on the road. But even then such partnerships are often tenuous due to the need for each player to provide for themselves.

I said in another thread that the road player may be America's last gunslinger. Maybe that should be expanded to the American professional player. You can't say that a player has no heart when they are out there on their own dime trying to eke out a living and not getting a fraction of the respect or financial reward that their counterparts in other sports are getting.

Why are the Filipinos so strong? Well it's for most of the reasons listed here EXCEPT for the ones that say the Americans have no heart

 

[jay helfert]

If Americans were so poor they couldnt afford jet skis, snow mobiles, R.V.s, oh yea those things called houses, then I guess they would have nothing better to do but swim for sponges and sleep under the tables after they got done playing for the money they got from selling sponges.
And trust me I know oh to well how motivating being poor is...

A well kept dog will out work a mutt any day. My family had a 40 stall kennel in Spokane Wa. I know alittle about dogs. If you would like to get it right someday it is true SOMTIMES "its not the size of the dog but the size of the fight in the dog" that matters

And the Indian wars werent declared over until my ancestor's stopped fighting out in Az. Your probably from one of those fat little coastal tribes that helped them live through the first winter... Thanks good move

FYI, the last Indian war was fought with the Utes in Utah in 1912. It ended with a massacre by American troops when they ambushed the Ute campground. The only tribe never defeated by American troops were the Seminoles in Florida.

 

[JB Cases]

It wasnt the thread that did it it was all the Americans have no heart cr*p..

And there is no need to worry because when you get done taking the family fortune and starting that mega million dollar tour =) all the basement players will be coming out and we'll own this game too...

You're right, if there was a mega-million dollar tour then we'd see a lot more players coming out of the woodwork.

We already saw that with the IPT.

The thing is that it's ludicrous to say that the Americans have no heart when they play so good that they can't get any action and yet they somehow still manage to get themselves to tournaments. I'd say in some ways they have a lot MORE HEART than the Filipinos who are "managed" and coddled with salaries and who are put in constant action by the people with money.

I can't stand and can't stomach the use of the word stables to describe the teams of players there. What are they? Animals to be bet on?

Americans have no teams of players with managed and salaried players. Each American player is pretty much on his own most of the time, sometimes forming partnerships with other players to share expenses and watch each other's backs on the road. But even then such partnerships are often tenuous due to the need for each player to provide for themselves.

I said in another thread that the road player may be America's last gunslinger. Maybe that should be expanded to the American professional player. You can't say that a player has no heart when they are out there on their own dime trying to eke out a living and not getting a fraction of the respect or financial reward that their counterparts in other sports are getting.

Why are the Filipinos so strong? Well it's for most of the reasons listed here EXCEPT for the ones that say the Americans have no heart

 

[Texas Prez]

I think it truly comes down to money.

Why Philipinos are successful with means of money has already been explained.

Its why money hurt the American pool system; instruction vs gambling.

In the USA if you are a young pool player who is relatively good, the only way to increase your skill is to gamble or pay for instructions. I believe in the Phillipines, that more older pool players are willing to instruct younger players.

...it is not every man for himself there like it can be at times here

clearly this is IMO

 

[macneilb]

they just have better nerves

All I have to say is what do you think would happen if you sent almost any top american on a tour through every pool hall in the phillipines, taking on all-comers? with all the known killers like dennis and lee van over there, not even mentioning the dark horses and career hustlers that we'll never even hear of over here, i'd bet it wouldn't end so well - although I'll admit there's probably an acception or two .

I know this is a strong statement, but do you think that even Johnny A could fade the heat of the whole filipino contingent if he went over there? Just my opinion...but I'd bet no...no way he would dominate over there. The sheer pressure, crappy conditions, constant high caliber of play, along with the occasional sharking would crack almost any player from here going over there..including a Johnny A IMO. Send almost any top filipino through here and I'd bet they'd have a field day...Nice tables, easy marks, and I'd bet you any amount they'd be damn near impossible to shark b/c they just simply have better nerves.

In my mind that tells you the caliber that's over here compared to over there - and when you boil it down, is the reason they are as strong as they are. more players = more top players = stronger top players.

 

[jeffwinters]

FYI, crappy tables are not issues anymore here in PI, you'll find a lot of excellent playing tables here if you know where to look.

 

[the_general]

a lot have been said in this thread and most of them i agree with. as a filipino myself, i'm really happy with how the mighty americans see us in terms of playing pool. but as a human being, and maybe the reason why we excel more than the others in the sport - is the heart and will to win. the killer instinct, the pride. ironic as it seems, i don't see why americans can not win over our players. americans have almost all the advantages in developing and supporting the players... cue technology, great tables to practice with, resources to fund players in international tournaments, etc. but us, we don't have those... but what we have is the desire and will to win. we do with what we have and that makes our players rough & tough. we play with a purpose and that is the driving force behind our players' success.

 

[scottyr44]

flat out they take risks and well calculated risks how many americans until recently have you seen take some of those gutsy shots like efren playing earl for the us open. They develop that feel for shots by playing for cheap money where they can be a little risky. I also think they are gifted with the fact that their country supports the game and they have no problem growing up and wanting to be pool players where in the states in most places that would be frowned upon. Like my signature i'm going to say fortune favors the brave.

 

[BlowFish]

One thing that is missing here that has not been brought up is the support fellow Filipinos extend to the Filipino players when they travel abroad. Look at any major tournament, how many Filipinos will be there ready to support their kababayans? Those pinoys will offer to cook them their favorite Filipino food. Even offer to drive them around or offer them to stay at their place. Those things appear small, but to a traveling Filipino, it's a big thing, a confidence booster. Giving them even more confidence to play better.

Master Bandido, I think I know who that Doc Jun is. I've played him before at Superman Sports Bar and he plays really well.

 

[linds]

One thing that is missing here that has not been brought up is the support fellow Filipinos extend to the Filipino players when they travel abroad. Look at any major tournament, how many Filipinos will be there ready to support their kababayans? Those pinoys will offer to cook them their favorite Filipino food. Even offer to drive them around or offer them to stay at their place. Those things appear small, but to a traveling Filipino, it's a big thing, a confidence booster. Giving them even more confidence to play better.

Master Bandido, I think I know who that Doc Jun is. I've played him before at Superman Sports Bar and he plays really well.

That is a major factor for the Pinoys when playing outside of the country. These "kababayans" doesn't just make them feel at home but make them feel real special.

You did play Doc Jun in the finals at SSB! You were getting the Wild 6 in a short race and he still won! Just goes to show how strong he is. Wild6 in a short race against somebody strong enough to get to the finals. Wow!!! He now plays against Revo for practice (cheap sets).