what percent of the time do you break and run?
- Thread starter jdxprs
- Start date
Not as often as I'd like to. On a decent day playing with friends. I can on average break and run about one 8 ball rack an hour on a bar box, that's under 5% of the time. Sometimes it happens more often, and sometimes I won't run a rack for days. As far as 9 ball goes, I can win about 3 games in a race to 7 with the ghost.
I would suggest posting a poll, but there may be too many variables.
I would suggest posting a poll, but there may be too many variables.
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For me it`s 100%.I break and run to grab my playing cue.LOL.
I have never really kept up with it,I would say in a race to 7 on 9ftGC`s I will break and run 2-4 racks if i have a good spread.My high is 4 on a tight 9ft diamond and 6 on a valley barbox, 9ball
I have never really kept up with it,I would say in a race to 7 on 9ftGC`s I will break and run 2-4 racks if i have a good spread.My high is 4 on a tight 9ft diamond and 6 on a valley barbox, 9ball
It depends on the tables. At Hardtimes, I'd be lucky to break and run 5 times in 3 or 4 hours. In Japan, I'd expect to break and run at least 5 times in 3 or 4 hours. Dunno what percentage that is, but its about 3x harder to break and run on tables that break poorly and have 4 inch pockets.
Well, I have been tracking this to get an idea.
9 ball - 3 out of 10 average.
10 ball - 2 out of 11.
8 ball - 4 out of 11.
9 ball - 3 out of 10 average.
10 ball - 2 out of 11.
8 ball - 4 out of 11.
jdxprs
Banned
I'd say about... 1%, lol.
accustats older statistic...
On the older vhs accustats tapes, Grady Mathews stated many times break and run averages of the pros.
Grady stated that the pros Break and Run about 25% of the time in Nine Ball.
It was always an unusual moment at Hill Hill, that the pro in the chair was more likely to win, than the pro who was to break the hill hill game...
Mr. J.
On the older vhs accustats tapes, Grady Mathews stated many times break and run averages of the pros.
Grady stated that the pros Break and Run about 25% of the time in Nine Ball.
It was always an unusual moment at Hill Hill, that the pro in the chair was more likely to win, than the pro who was to break the hill hill game...
Mr. J.
Same here.
Did Grady say that? I don't know any pro that would want to be sitting rather than breaking a hill/hill game. I'd also find it incredible that statistics would support this.
This is true. Pat Fleming started videotaping matches to be able to compute the Accu-Stats ratings of players in pro tournaments. He has data over several yrs of pro tournaments to show that the breaker was not the favorite to win the game. This data would be of the entire pro tournament, not cherry picking the top players of the time such as Earl, Buddy, or Sigel. The time frame for this data was the mid 80's. Although its dated, I doubt the players of today are different enough to change this statistic.
When you step back and look at things from a statistical standpoint, the truth is revealed. Sort of like a player missing a shot and then saying he would have made that 99 out of 100 times, but if they were to actually shoot it 100 times we all know the number of successful attempts would be way less than 99.
Ummmm confusion abound
Hardtimes 5 times in 3 or 4 hours
Japan 5 times in 3 or 4 hours
Where is it 3x harder to break and run on tables that break poorly and have 4" pockets??
lol...
R
He said he'd be LUCKY to do it 5 times in 3 or 4 hours as opposed to EXPECTED to do it 5 times in 3 or 4 hours. Have no idea where he got the 3x from though.
Myself, I honestly have no idea what my percentage would be. If I'm in a race to 7 I could do it 3-4 times or I could do it zero times. Depends on how the table is breaking and how well I'm shooting that day. My best run is 7 in a row. But, with that said, that wasn't because of my great play around the table. I was breaking on a brand new GCIV, first customer on that table actually, and every break I was making 3 or 4 balls on the break and had decent shape with a good spread. I figure under those circumstances a decent B player could do the same.
Also, I don't think I'm an aggressive player. I don't break and immediately work out how I'm going to "run out". I almost never "go for it". If I see a situation I'll weigh my options and if the safety seems higher percentage I'll go safe.
MULLY
That is very interesting, and surprising. I do have to wonder if the statistics would still hold up today at least in 9 Ball, the way players have evolved the break. The players may not be so different but the break sure is. I seem to recall watching a WPBA event and having one of the commentators mention that the players in the match were both averaging over 65% wins on their breaks. And you always hear from commentators about the importance of winning the lag should a match go hill/hill. So what's that all about?
Also, you mentioned that the stats came from all pros (or at least many) in pro tournament games, but you didn't say they were specifically in hill/hill matches. It wouldn't surprise me so much for all pro matches in a tournament seeing as not all match ups are even, not everyone is a contender, and some at least are probably dead money. As I said in my earlier post, I would still be surprised if the breaker wasn't the statistical favorite in an even match up of two pros as represented by a match that goes hill/hill.
In any event, not withstanding those stats, I still don't know one pro that wouldn't want the break in the final game of a match.
8-ball might be higher but 9-ball, I believe the pros bnr at 18% clip.
Here are the original articles that started Accu-Stats, scanned in by Bob Jewett:
http://www.sfbilliards.com/accustats/
Really interesting reading. You can look at all the data on the articles. Today, there is nothing really like this. The IPT would count as good data, but that is a different game. A couple of the TAR matches had good statistics, but of course the players in the TAR matches were top 20 in world pros. The accustats data in the articles linked has data for every pro of the time.
In one of Flemings tapes, he said that when he won the lag or coin toss, he would give the opponent the break, based on the statistics he had at the time.
Now, of course we all want to break. I'm a B player at best and want to break every game. But that doesn't necessarily mean breaking will win you more games than not.
http://www.sfbilliards.com/accustats/
Really interesting reading. You can look at all the data on the articles. Today, there is nothing really like this. The IPT would count as good data, but that is a different game. A couple of the TAR matches had good statistics, but of course the players in the TAR matches were top 20 in world pros. The accustats data in the articles linked has data for every pro of the time.
In one of Flemings tapes, he said that when he won the lag or coin toss, he would give the opponent the break, based on the statistics he had at the time.
Now, of course we all want to break. I'm a B player at best and want to break every game. But that doesn't necessarily mean breaking will win you more games than not.
Playing 8 ball, 2-3 times out of 15 is my best guess. Probably 15% over the long haul.
9 ball I don't play much of, I can't seem to buy a wing ball in my favorite room. Less than 10%.
Too bad we don't count rack-n-run because I have more of those per night.
IPT is a great source of pro break and run stats for 8 ball.
As a little experiment I semi-randomly selected 10 pros and averaged their break and run percentages for both sessions (I picked the first 10 pros which means we got johnny archer and darren appleton and kid delicious but also some unknowns).
The final average was a hair over 20%. That's break and runs out of all games played. Out of games won, the percentages were higher. Almost 40% of johnny's wins came from runouts. Busty managed over 40%. Efren is right in line with the average, 20% for all games, 30ish for games won.
For 9b, I'd love to see accustats info. Where is this archived?
9 ball I don't play much of, I can't seem to buy a wing ball in my favorite room. Less than 10%.
Too bad we don't count rack-n-run because I have more of those per night.
IPT is a great source of pro break and run stats for 8 ball.
As a little experiment I semi-randomly selected 10 pros and averaged their break and run percentages for both sessions (I picked the first 10 pros which means we got johnny archer and darren appleton and kid delicious but also some unknowns).
The final average was a hair over 20%. That's break and runs out of all games played. Out of games won, the percentages were higher. Almost 40% of johnny's wins came from runouts. Busty managed over 40%. Efren is right in line with the average, 20% for all games, 30ish for games won.
For 9b, I'd love to see accustats info. Where is this archived?
1,5 year ago I practiced 3 h a day, and kept track of every shot. During November 2008 I played my best and had a b&r average of around 25% in 9-ball. For one month.
I am not even close to that number now... I can't even beat the 9-ball ghost anymore and I could beat the 10-ball ghost every now and then in the end of 2008.
Guess I need to start practicing again...
I am not even close to that number now... I can't even beat the 9-ball ghost anymore and I could beat the 10-ball ghost every now and then in the end of 2008.
Guess I need to start practicing again...
I'm not sure, but I believe that most of the tournaments accu-stats based the B&R stats on were open tournaments where you will get at least 20% of the players being non-pro...maybe more. Like if you did stats on all the US Open 9-ball it wouldn't be all pro players...far from it. TAR was doing some stats on a few matches, but I'm not sure if any were 9-ball. I'll bet the SVB/Mills match was over 20% B&R. Johnnyt