What purpose does the BCA serve today?

Replace BCA?

Roger Long said:
When I owned a pool room, I was proud to display my BCA Proprietor Member sticker in my window. That was back when The Billiard Congress of America was actually the governing body of pool in the U.S., and to be affiliated with that organization was a matter of prestige.

Today, I went to the BCA websites (there are actually two) with the thought that I might like to become a proprietor member again, but what I found there was not very encouraging. It appears that the BCA no longer has any real function. Oh yes, they list membership benefits, but under close scrutiny, the "benefits" don't seem to actually exist. As a matter of fact, the real purpose(s) of that organization are not clearly spelled out at all.

Am I missing something?

Roger
Click to expand...

Roger,
Yeah I grew up thinking the BCA was the top of the heap.

In answer to RandyG's question who would replace them I will say this:

Its a shame that anyone should have to, they were the center of the pride in the Industry, they were our governing body and it was about the game. How in the world did all of this happened the way it did?

Is it entirely too late for the BCA to find it feet again is the first thing I would ask.

I sure hope that the trade organization is doing well because I would bet that everything else has or is drying up.

Who would replace them?.....a new startup maybe...who knows.
 
I will admit I don't follow what each organization does or doesn't do effectively. I would imagine as far as leagues go. Most start up because players gets sick of the current league they are in. So someone comes along and start a new league. Players are never satisfied and want more and more. Never realizing it's just the same cycle repeating itself. An organization gets started and is treated like a pyramid or a franchise. Everyone wants something different out of league. Can't please everyone. If you feel the need to go to Vegas or whatever I guess you need to play in one of the main organizations. Otherwise make your own local league. From what I read on forums. I am certain it's players who ruin leagues and not the league that ruins it for the player. I don't know how many pro's there are. Gotta figure there are some pretty smart people with some pretty good connections. If they cant find a way to make the pro game profitable than what can anyone do. When it cost more to travel, eat, entry fee etc than what you can win. Whats the point?
 
Roger Long said:
I agree with you, Jennie. The BCA has already effectively removed themselves from being the governing body of billiards in America, so they should officially remove themselves as the American representative to the WPA, also.

Here's what I'm talking about. The BCA used to sponsor and sanction professional tournaments, but now they don't. I know that supporting the pros has never a money-making venture, but then again, it's not supposed to be. The purpose for supporting professional players is to get the kind of feedback that only they can provide to any organizations that are charged with the responsibilities of maintaining comprehensive rule books and with staying on top of sports trends. The pros are loss leaders, not profit generators. They provide a valuable service to organizations like the BCA, and they deserve to get paid something for it.

The same can be said for the amateur players. The BCA used to own and operate a league system, but now they don't. The amateur players, IMO, are just as valuable as the pros (maybe even more so). The amateur leagues represent a huge cross section of players when it comes to evaluating consumer trends and personal preferences. I just don't see how the BCA could possibly distance their organization from amateur and pro players, and still consider themselves to be the "governing body" over them.

The irony of the whole thing is that we have an organization (BCA) that offers no real benefits to it's members; offers no real support to professional players; and wants no affiliation with amateur players; and yet retains the right to make the rules on how the game is played. It's just weird.

Roger
Click to expand...

I do feel bad for all those who have supported the BCA in the past, It does seem at one time, they had a purpose in the pool world, but today not so much.

I am hoping, however, there is more to pool's survival than this forum. In recent times, the support for anything new and innovative in the pool world gets smashed down. It really saddens me. On FB, though, there is a more optimistic tone. Maybe the grasp of social media around the world casts a larger spotlight on pool and illuminates areas I've never seen before. I enjoy the FB pool scene. :)

Reading the FB pool threads really does give me hope for the survival of pool. Here's looking towards a brighter future. :smile:
 
Read carefully

Bob Jewett said:
To the best of my knowledge, several statements above are false. Specifically:

The BCA got rid of the leagues not because they were not successful but because they were successful. There were about 6000 players at the Nationals the year before the leagues were sold. Members of the BCA Board demanded that the BCA get rid of them. In my view the loss of the leagues and the revenue they brought in is the major reason the BCA has no resources now.

The instructors' program is still administered by the BCA but it is now called the PBIA. The name change was to comply with a demand from a BCA Board member. Here is their contact info:
Professional Billiard Instructors Association
c/o Billiard Congress of America
10900 West 120th Ave., Unit B7
Broomfield, CO 80021
Click to expand...

I didn't say that the BCA leagues were not successful, - in fact I said the opposite. But they saw a limited future because of the financial might of the APA.

I base my opinions of pool leagues on 70+ seasons of play in more than a dozen different organizations and watching the evolutions of these organizations since the 1960s.

If it makes you feel good to label my opinions "false", be my guest.
 
Scott Lee said:
Bruce...As usual, either you or your friend got it wrong. I was at the trade show, as I am every year, and total of non-pool-related booth space is less than 10% of the show. I saw no back yard furniture or barbeques. Whether you like it or not, many pool table retailers also display and sell "gameroom accessories" and bar setups. It's just part of the retail business.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...


Well Scott you could both be right, as it has been over 10 years since he was at a BCA Show.

Back then I think the show he spoke of with the Non Pool related items was in Sin City as I call Las Vegas.

Like I he came home, and said he was not going back no more because the Pool & Billiard Show changed. Maybe the Show has changed allowing Non Pool Items of the BCA to make the show profitable.

The one thing that is for sure is Pool in some markets/places is making it, but in other places the room, and support side that sell tables, cues, etc. that have been around for a very long time have closed.

Recall when I first came to Arizona 15 plus years there were 10 or 20 big stores that sold pool tables, cue, accessories, etc. in the Phoenix Metro Area. Today I think the number is maybe 4 or 5, and the others have closed.

When the boom to build new homes died, the demand for Home Pool Tables went away also. I was totally surprised when Connelly Billiard Billiards Arrowhead closed its door, as it was the nicest retail place of the bunch. Plus the only Brunswick dealer in the Phoenix Metro Area.

Today if I need only some small accessories like a tip tapper, I got to drive 20 miles for it, or get on the computer order it from a dealer with a website.

Even the guys, and women (the trunkers) who use to make nightly rounds to the Pool Rooms, and Bars with accessories, cues, cases, etc. Have for the most part disappeared.

Is there a need for the BCA, Yes if the BCA returned to it roots, maybe started promoting Pool like it did in its glory days, when everything Pool was affiliated, or associated with the BCA.













Scott I know you want everything to be wonderful, but you need only open your eyes to see it is not, it is in the News daily about unemployed, and the recession all over the USA. Maybe with the exception of the BOOM in North Dakota.

Detroit, aka MO TOWN for Motor City USA the c great capitol of the U.S. Auto Industry is a prime example of what has happen to the a MOJOR US CITIES. Detroit is noting like what it was, and mush of Detroit is abandon homes.

This same story is being play out in other Cities, and Towns in the U.S.A. as business have closed, people who had a job done, now are surviving on food stamps & welfair, some have moved from home in the suburbs to living in the street.

The Arizona Repulbic just did a story on the 250 people who sleep every night on the black top parking lot of one of the homeless shelter in Phoenix AZ. Why they sleep in the parking lot, is because the shelter is full.
 
Roger Long said:
Does it need replacing? If it doesn't serve any good purpose, maybe it just needs to go completely away.

Roger
Click to expand...

So there is no "real" governing body of American Billiards?
Not that it would ever happen, but would it be beneficial or detrimental to American Pool if American Billiards collected itself under one umbrella, amateur league structure and major amateur events, pro tours and tournaments, major open events, major trade shows and conventions, a certified instructors program, an administration and administrative structure with office space etc...
maybe even a push as an Olympic sport?
 
Bruce...At least I get out and SEE what's happening around the country. How often do you get out of PHX? BTW, 250 out of a population of 3.5 million is a pretty small percentage. Yes, there is homelessness and unemployment nationwide. Certainly some of that can accounted for by the previous administration putting us in two wars...which are still going on, and which have caused massive cuts in social programs across the board, to fund the military complex. Social Security and Medicare are in jeopardy because of indecision within Congress, on what to do to fix them, and more importantly because of less workers paying into the system, and rampant fraud, in several major industries (think banking, medicine, real estate, insurance, and Wall Street...can you say Bernie Madoff?).

In the history of the US Congress there has never been a greater divide between the two political parties...another "gift" from the previous administration. There are certainly some areas of Detroit where there is a high percentage of abandoned homes, but there are other areas that have experienced new growth. You can thank a series of crooked mayors (and probably governors too), but principally the most recent (Kwame Kilpatrick) for Detroit's looming bankruptcy. He will be residing at a federal penetentiary for likely the next 20 years. If you believe some of the gov't statistics, people are moving from the suburbs back into the renovated metro areas in several major cities across the country...40-50 years ago it was the other way around. The general population is much more multi-cultural now than it was decades ago. That's not necessarily a bad thing, nor does it contribute significantly to the problems that exist today. Yep, times they are a changin'...no different than it has always been. One thing about the USA...change is inevitable. That's one of the reasons most people still want to live here (and have the CHOICE to move somewhere else, if they choose to...(not the case in many countries around the world).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

CocoboloCowboy said:
Scott I know you want everything to be wonderful, but you need only open your eyes to see it is not, it is in the News daily about unemployed, and the recession all over the USA. Maybe with the exception of the BOOM in North Dakota.

Detroit, aka MO TOWN for Motor City USA the c great capitol of the U.S. Auto Industry is a prime example of what has happen to the a MOJOR US CITIES. Detroit is noting like what it was, and mush of Detroit is abandon homes.

This same story is being play out in other Cities, and Towns in the U.S.A. as business have closed, people who had a job done, now are surviving on food stamps & welfair, some have moved from home in the suburbs to living in the street.

The Arizona Repulbic just did a story on the 250 people who sleep every night on the black top parking lot of one of the homeless shelter in Phoenix AZ. Why they sleep in the parking lot, is because the shelter is full.
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
...snipped the it's Bush's fault part...
There are certainly some areas of Detroit where there is a high percentage of abandoned homes, but there are other areas that have experienced new growth. You can thank a series of crooked mayors (and probably governors too), but principally the most recent (Kwame Kilpatrick) for Detroit's looming bankruptcy. He will be residing at a federal penetentiary for likely the next 20 years. If you believe some of the gov't statistics, people are moving from the suburbs back into the renovated metro areas in several major cities across the country...40-50 years ago it was the other way around. The general population is much more multi-cultural now than it was decades ago. That's not necessarily a bad thing, nor does it contribute significantly to the problems that exist today. Yep, times they are a changin'...no different than it has always been. One thing about the USA...change is inevitable. That's one of the reasons most people still want to live here (and have the CHOICE to move somewhere else, if they choose to...(not the case in many countries around the world).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Oh who cares about all that? Did you see the Lions vs. Cowboys game???

:happydance::dance::woot:
 
Are you sure you are in the right section of AZ? This sounds like an NPR post.

Scott Lee said:
Bruce...At least I get out and SEE what's happening around the country. How often do you get out of PHX? BTW, 250 out of a population of 3.5 million is a pretty small percentage. Yes, there is homelessness and unemployment nationwide. Certainly some of that can accounted for by the previous administration putting us in two wars...which are still going on, and which have caused massive cuts in social programs across the board, to fund the military complex. Social Security and Medicare are in jeopardy because of indecision within Congress, on what to do to fix them, and more importantly because of less workers paying into the system, and rampant fraud, in several major industries (think banking, medicine, real estate, insurance, and Wall Street...can you say Bernie Madoff?).

In the history of the US Congress there has never been a greater divide between the two political parties...another "gift" from the previous administration. There are certainly some areas of Detroit where there is a high percentage of abandoned homes, but there are other areas that have experienced new growth. You can thank a series of crooked mayors (and probably governors too), but principally the most recent (Kwame Kilpatrick) for Detroit's looming bankruptcy. He will be residing at a federal penetentiary for likely the next 20 years. If you believe some of the gov't statistics, people are moving from the suburbs back into the renovated metro areas in several major cities across the country...40-50 years ago it was the other way around. The general population is much more multi-cultural now than it was decades ago. That's not necessarily a bad thing, nor does it contribute significantly to the problems that exist today. Yep, times they are a changin'...no different than it has always been. One thing about the USA...change is inevitable. That's one of the reasons most people still want to live here (and have the CHOICE to move somewhere else, if they choose to...(not the case in many countries around the world).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...
 
tatcat2000 said:
Depends on what you mean by "rules" and "rights".

If you are talking about administrative decisions surrounding things other than the game on the table, you may well be correct under various circumstances.

If you are talking about game rules, not so much. The BCA currently does not display any apparent interest whatsoever in the content of the rules.

* They have no rules committee.
* They do not write any rules. With respect to WSR, all they do is parrot what the WPA gives them. Outside of the WPA regulated games, I am not aware of any text changes in the ancillary games since at least 2008, if not longer.
* They dropped any reference to rules from their Mission Statement years ago.
* They maintain no referee program of any kind whatsoever.
* To the best of my knowledge, rules questions concerning WSR addressed to the BCA are, for the most part, referred to the BCAPL for a response, and some of those inquiries make their way to me on occasion if Bill is snowed under. Despite the fact that most CSI events do not use WSR, and the fact that there are several significant differences between WSR and BCAPL rules, the BCAPL rules are still rooted firmly in WSR and the BCAPL senior staff (especially Bill and I) is probably as well or better versed in WSR than most.

In short, they have nothing to do with the rules of the game other than to publish their book. On top of that, anyone buying the book in order to get WSR information is wasting their $$$. It can be copied from the WPA site for nothing. :smile:

- edit -

In the event of a WPA rules conference, they might name a delegate, but it won't be anyone from their internal staff. They will just outsource to a known knowledgeable person, as they did for the 2008 re-write.

Buddy Eick
CSI National Head Referee
CSI Director of Referee Training
Technical Editor, The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League
bca_referee@yahoo.com

Find the Official Rules of the BCA Pool League here:

http://www.playbca.com/Downloads/Rulebook/CompleteRulebook/tabid/372/Default.aspx

* Unless specifically stated, the contents of this post refer to BCA Pool League (BCAPL) Rules only. The BCAPL National Office has authorized me to act in an official capacity regarding questions about BCAPL Rules matters in public forums.
* Unless specifically stated, no reference to, inference concerning, or comment on any other set of rules (WPA, APA, VNEA, TAP, or any other set of rules, public or private) is intended or should be derived from this post.
* Neither I, nor any BCAPL referee, make any policy decisions regarding BCAPL Rules. Any and all decisions, interpretations, or Applied Rulings are made by the BCAPL National Office and are solely their responsibility. BCAPL referees are enforcers of rules, not legislators. BCAPL Rules 9.5.3 and 9.5.4 and the BCAPL Rules "Statement of Principles" apply.
* For General Rules, 8-Ball, 9-Ball, 10-Ball, and 14.1 Continuous: there is no such thing as "BCA Rules" other than in the sense that the Billiard Congress of America (BCA) publishes various rules, including the World Pool-Billiard Association's "World Standardized Rules" for those games. The BCA has no rules committee. The BCA does not edit, nor is responsible for the content of, the World Standardized Rules. The Official Rules of the BCAPL is a separate and independent set of rules and, to avoid confusion, should not be referred to as "BCA Rules".
* Since 2004, there is no such thing as a "BCA Referee". The BCA no longer has any program to train, certify or sanction billiards referees or officials. The BCAPL maintains what we consider to be the most structured, complete and intensive referee training program available.
* The BCAPL has no association with the Billiard Congress of America other than in their capacity as a member of the BCA. The letters "BCA" in BCAPL do not stand for "Billiard Congress of America, nor for anything at all.
* The BCAPL has not addressed every imaginable rules issue, nor will it ever likely be able to, as evidenced by the seemingly endless situations that people dream up or that (more frequently) actually happen. If I do not have the answer to a question I will tell you so, then I will get a ruling from the BCAPL National Office and get back to you as soon as I can. If deemed necessary, the BCAPL will then add the ruling to the "Applied Rulings" section of The Official Rules of the BCA Pool League.
* All BCAPL members are, as always, encouraged to e-mail Bill Stock at the BCAPL National Office, bill@playcsi.com, with any comments, concerns or suggestions about the BCAPL rules.
Click to expand...

Buddy (tatcat2000):

Thank you for the enlightenment. I was mistakenly under the impression that the BCA was still taking an active role in authoring and updating game rules. However, after reading your comments here, I went back to the BCA website and found that you are correct; they no longer have a rules committee. I also took another look at my rule book, which says on the front cover, "Billiards: The Official Rules and Records Book, Published by the Billiard Congress of America," but when I turned it over, it said on the back cover, "World Pool-Billiard Association: The international ruling body of pocket billiards determines the official rules that govern the way the game is played." So, you were once again correct.

This seems so funny to me since all of the games that are being played in international competition today are games that were developed in America, and yet, the Billiard Congress of AMERICA doesn't want to be involved.

Okay, so now that we've identified one more thing that the BCA no longer does, can someone please point out one thing that they actually do? (Well, they do have a Finance Committee, so that is one thing they are willing to focus on.) :rolleyes:

Roger
 
Celophanewrap said:
So there is no "real" governing body of American Billiards?
Not that it would ever happen, but would it be beneficial or detrimental to American Pool if American Billiards collected itself under one umbrella, amateur league structure and major amateur events, pro tours and tournaments, major open events, major trade shows and conventions, a certified instructors program, an administration and administrative structure with office space etc...
maybe even a push as an Olympic sport?
Click to expand...

Detrimental. All your eggs in one basket is a recipe for disaster. When one organization controls all the levers, it becomes an unholy bureaucracy that only cares about it's own well-being.

If one league is dropping the ball, the other leagues will take advantage of it and attract its members. But if there's only one league it can drop the ball all it wants with no downside.

It comes down to the hokey phrase "different strokes for different folks." Some people play pool just to have fun with their friends (APA); others don't care about the "fun" aspect, they want serious competition. Others are pros and only care about money-paying tournament events. No one organization can do justice to such a diverse group. You need individual organizations to make sure they are focused on the needs of their members.

Consolidation always sounds good; it just never works out that way because we're human.
 
Purpose?

It is 2:55am on Thursday Morning,...I think. I have been down with the flu bug for a few days, and in one of my coughing fits, I decide to get up and read this entire thread,...I really must be sick!?

I used to work for the BCA. I was responsible for the Leagues. It was the job of a Lifetime for a Pool Enthusiast. John Lewis was busy with the WPA, and the WCBS-Olympic Dream for Pool. We also assisted with the Trade Show and Member Services. Pool Industry stuff.

But I came to learn a little too much about the nature of the Billiard Industry leadership. It is a fickle group of people who sit and decide all of these things, and yet few are real enthusiasts for players. Exceptions,yes. You do not have a Daniel Gauci, Nancy Hart, or Paul Huebler, et al sitting on the Board any longer. These were members who could be trusted with the needs and desires of the Players Side of the BCA, as we called it.

I do not have any animosity towards the BCA as a Trade Group, but I have felt their existence is a non factor for the real future development of pool. They would do well to dissolve the BCA and allow another new entity to form. The Bowling and Billiard Institute of America has enough room for them to become a better partner.

That's all for now. My crippled hands don't allow much more at the keyboard. Have a nice night.

Carl

P.S. My tagline OGIPUS REX, is my humorous take as, the Official Governing Institute for Pool in the United States. I mean, who's going to challenge me? The BCA? WPA?
The REX part kinda makes me the guy in charge of the rules and everything,lol.
 
cajunfats said:
It is 2:55am on Thursday Morning,...I think. I have been down with the flu bug for a few days, and in one of my coughing fits, I decide to get up and read this entire thread,...I really must be sick!?

I used to work for the BCA. I was responsible for the Leagues. It was the job of a Lifetime for a Pool Enthusiast. John Lewis was busy with the WPA, and the WCBS-Olympic Dream for Pool. We also assisted with the Trade Show and Member Services. Pool Industry stuff.

But I came to learn a little too much about the nature of the Billiard Industry leadership. It is a fickle group of people who sit and decide all of these things, and yet few are real enthusiasts for players. Exceptions,yes. You do not have a Daniel Gauci, Nancy Hart, or Paul Huebler, et al sitting on the Board any longer. These were members who could be trusted with the needs and desires of the Players Side of the BCA, as we called it.

I do not have any animosity towards the BCA as a Trade Group, but I have felt their existence is a non factor for the real future development of pool. They would do well to dissolve the BCA and allow another new entity to form. The Bowling and Billiard Institute of America has enough room for them to become a better partner.

That's all for now. My crippled hands don't allow much more at the keyboard. Have a nice night.

Carl

P.S. My tagline OGIPUS REX, is my humorous take as, the Official Governing Institute for Pool in the United States. I mean, who's going to challenge me? The BCA? WPA?
The REX part kinda makes me the guy in charge of the rules and everything,lol.
Click to expand...



Get well soon my friend.

randyg
 
I find this thread interesting.

My name was mentioned a little bit and Scott Lee was most accurate - the spinoff groups went out of their way to slander me - since I acquired the leagues from the BCA.

Donny Lutz is wrong on the reasons the leagues were sold. Had very little to do with the APA or its size etc. Had a lot to do with the makeup and intent of the Board of Directors.

Carl (CajunFats) has a better insight than most.

It is a shame - and I think something can be done to resolve the issue but I am too old and now too tired, to put up with it.

The few future years will have a different tone to them.

Mark Griffin
 
Mark Griffin said:
I find this thread interesting.

Donny Lutz is wrong on the reasons the leagues were sold. Had very little to do with the APA or its size etc. Had a lot to do with the makeup and intent of the Board of Directors.



Mark Griffin
Click to expand...

"Had a lot to do with the makeup and intent of the Board of Directors.

Bingo........................

John Lewis..........Mark settle down....:) asked me to come into the office one day at work, I think at the time he'd be at the BCA for 14 yr, including IA office and maybe another, so I go in....''shut the door'' and the Louis smile, the good one, the Only one I'll go easy on tells me, Bill I was just told to do this and ta da ta da, and it never came up or was passed or, wasn't even on the agenda for the required meeting every so often by corporate law. Mind you, I'm no brain child, but I can definitely spot a duck. Then we had to Duck a few more items in similar fashion, and so it went and started, dissolve the player program side. Keep in mind, the BCA bank account is flushing up due to the new ways since the move from IA to Colorado Springs, and six figure incomes are possible in office, for 1.

Boy its a nice day out......bye, gonna go hit balls.
 
Mark Griffin said:
I find this thread interesting.

My name was mentioned a little bit and Scott Lee was most accurate - the spinoff groups went out of their way to slander me - since I acquired the leagues from the BCA.

Donny Lutz is wrong on the reasons the leagues were sold. Had very little to do with the APA or its size etc. Had a lot to do with the makeup and intent of the Board of Directors.

Carl (CajunFats) has a better insight than most.

It is a shame - and I think something can be done to resolve the issue but I am too old and now too tired, to put up with it.

The few future years will have a different tone to them.

Mark Griffin
Click to expand...

Mark,

I think your organization is exactly the type that could make a difference. You have amateur leagues, regional tournaments, pro events, and a "rules committee".

I have always felt that the opportunity was there for one organization to "out-compete" the others that exist if all of the right pieces of the puzzle fell into place.

It's a shame that the BCA organization, in my time in the industry, was never lead by someone with a vision for the game, players, and member organizations.
 
Scott Lee said:
Bruce...At least I get out and SEE what's happening around the country. How often do you get out of PHX? BTW, 250 out of a population of 3.5 million is a pretty small percentage. Yes, there is homelessness and unemployment nationwide. Certainly some of that can accounted for by the previous administration putting us in two wars...which are still going on, and which have caused massive cuts in social programs across the board, to fund the military complex. Social Security and Medicare are in jeopardy because of indecision within Congress, on what to do to fix them, and more importantly because of less workers paying into the system, and rampant fraud, in several major industries (think banking, medicine, real estate, insurance, and Wall Street...can you say Bernie Madoff?).

In the history of the US Congress there has never been a greater divide between the two political parties...another "gift" from the previous administration. There are certainly some areas of Detroit where there is a high percentage of abandoned homes, but there are other areas that have experienced new growth. You can thank a series of crooked mayors (and probably governors too), but principally the most recent (Kwame Kilpatrick) for Detroit's looming bankruptcy. He will be residing at a federal penetentiary for likely the next 20 years. If you believe some of the gov't statistics, people are moving from the suburbs back into the renovated metro areas in several major cities across the country...40-50 years ago it was the other way around. The general population is much more multi-cultural now than it was decades ago. That's not necessarily a bad thing, nor does it contribute significantly to the problems that exist today. Yep, times they are a changin'...no different than it has always been. One thing about the USA...change is inevitable. That's one of the reasons most people still want to live here (and have the CHOICE to move somewhere else, if they choose to...(not the case in many countries around the world).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Excuse me Scott, no disrespect intended...But how in the hell did we get so far off topic ?..Wasn't this about the BCA ?

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4424424&postcount=5
 
Yeah

Mark Griffin said:
I find this thread interesting.

My name was mentioned a little bit and Scott Lee was most accurate - the spinoff groups went out of their way to slander me - since I acquired the leagues from the BCA.

Donny Lutz is wrong on the reasons the leagues were sold. Had very little to do with the APA or its size etc. Had a lot to do with the makeup and intent of the Board of Directors.

Carl (CajunFats) has a better insight than most.

It is a shame - and I think something can be done to resolve the issue but I am too old and now too tired, to put up with it.

The few future years will have a different tone to them.

Mark Griffin
Click to expand...

I am in no way nearly as knowledgeable as any of you here. I just love pool and Ive spent a good time working on ways to make people love pool to find out that people generally think they know everything so time to cool down on that one.

So I went to some trade shows and I thought ok this is awesome and this is what I would like to do. I would like to leave a legacy in the form of a large tradeshow that is working and doing good things for the industry. Then I find out that getting something going that actually produces income is a huge, huge risk so much in fact that I haven't seen a scenario that Ive investigated yet.....work out.

So I make a few friends in the Industry, think about how to just get something working that would actually pay for itself and a few nickels for the promoter and honestly, near impossible.

I will admit I am still working on what I do part time. So my full attention isn't devoted on it however. I have known for some time that Pool has no bedrock on which to fall and my observation has been that it need one very, very badly.

The comments of people about that are pretty close to the kind of comments that people would make when they feel they have been betrayed and I myself feel it.

Who will stand up for us? Just the guys who love pool.

I also have noted that Pool is a great disjointed effort of free people who have only one law and that law is that......it has to work out money wise.

So many efforts to do anything go quickly aside when the money runs out.

So pool is changing dramatically and Mr. Griffins statement bolded in black makes me very sad.

I don't know who to look to just to hope that they would take up the job of reorganizing the governing body of the sport other than him but I'm sure there are lots of good people in pool.

I have had the pleasure of speaking with him and I think we met at Edison, NJ at the expo before we spoke a few months ago.

I think I read people really well and all I hear from him is concern for the industry that is completely genuine. I don't know much about what he has done already but I find out every day that its been quite a lot.

I do note that I see familiar faces on this thread and find a few people I call friends here and some that I would like to know better. I've had thoughts about what would it take to reorganize the industry and how would it come about?

Maybe this thread is the beginning? Is it such a fantasy? I certainly hope not, for such a distinguished group of lovers of the game to gather in one thread shouldn't this deserve some serious thought? I would really hope so.

Pool may not need saving but I will say its needs some help. If I had a wish for Pool at this very moment it would be that some of the power players get together and talk about doing just exactly that. It has to start somewhere.
 
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Scott Lee said:
Bruce...At least I get out and SEE what's happening around the country. How often do you get out of PHX? BTW, 250 out of a population of 3.5 million is a pretty small percentage. Yes, there is homelessness and unemployment nationwide. Certainly some of that can accounted for by the previous administration putting us in two wars...which are still going on, and which have caused massive cuts in social programs across the board, to fund the military complex. Social Security and Medicare are in jeopardy because of indecision within Congress, on what to do to fix them, and more importantly because of less workers paying into the system, and rampant fraud, in several major industries (think banking, medicine, real estate, insurance, and Wall Street...can you say Bernie Madoff?).

In the history of the US Congress there has never been a greater divide between the two political parties...another "gift" from the previous administration. There are certainly some areas of Detroit where there is a high percentage of abandoned homes, but there are other areas that have experienced new growth. You can thank a series of crooked mayors (and probably governors too), but principally the most recent (Kwame Kilpatrick) for Detroit's looming bankruptcy. He will be residing at a federal penetentiary for likely the next 20 years. If you believe some of the gov't statistics, people are moving from the suburbs back into the renovated metro areas in several major cities across the country...40-50 years ago it was the other way around. The general population is much more multi-cultural now than it was decades ago. That's not necessarily a bad thing, nor does it contribute significantly to the problems that exist today. Yep, times they are a changin'...no different than it has always been. One thing about the USA...change is inevitable. That's one of the reasons most people still want to live here (and have the CHOICE to move somewhere else, if they choose to...(not the case in many countries around the world).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...




Scott I seldom leave the Valley of the Sun, as my retirement went up in smoke when the internet made the value of stock photography, and the Newspaper, and Magazine industry went away from print.

This was like being the guy who made buggy whips when automobiles took off, and the buggy was replace with cars.

The 250 who sleep nightly in the parking lot of CASS Central Arizona Shjelter Services are the ones who don't get into the shelter. This is just one shelter, out of many with people waiting for a safe place to sleep. None of this is effecting you personally, as it is not you sleeping on the Black Top.

Also it is not George Bush's fault he has not been President over 5 years. It is the fault of the current administration (POYUS & CONGRESS) who has not done DOO DOO, to fix the problems at home.

But they send resources offshore to fix problems, and help people off US Soil. How about helping American, and American's FIRST!.
 
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