What Type of Cueist Are You & Why Do You Think Your Way is Best?

[Mr. Wilson]

Mr. Wilson has recently just said after your return that he is tired of YOUR drama.

It seems that you are ignoring him & his warning.

Seems to me that you are taking some liberty here.
Did you really think that my comments were for Neil alone?

Let me clear this up.

You're about one post away from the inevitable.

 

[greyghost]

Keebler Elf,


This is part of the same issue as that other guy.

You mix matters up, seemingly rather often as I am learning.

You did NOT give me any recipe for etouffe. You gave me a recipe for Red Fish Couvillion.

All Best Wishes for ALL.

its the same dam thing basically rick, you wouldn't know that im sure.....especially most have no idea what the diff is b/t etouffee, a creole, and a Fish or frog shrimp (just about anything "white seafood") COURT BOUILLION.....

and saying CouVAYyon.......when your talking about a Cous BE yon, as its pronounced in cajun french.....unless you know a Couvillion that you ate instead.....only Couvillion i know is a family of welders.....doubt they go well with a red sauce with some roux added....

if i gave you directions to cook rick it would be extremely detailed.....like so that even some one who can not cook could do it and be confident in understanding the directions.

So your not from here are ya......maybe you are though and it would explain it......New orleans is creole....

but a patasaw like yourself probably knew all that.....but ya dont know this....and thats just the gate

-Greyghost

cajun word ofthe day: Pa ta saw.....it means FISH...little fish to be exact

 

[HawaiianEye]

Did this thread just turn into "The Food Channel"?

 

[greyghost]

Did this thread just turn into "The Food Channel"?

i dont know wether I'm sorry or your welcome......i do know that when I made it for joey that morning, my other friend stopped by that afternoon and i made it all purdied up the same....

bobby looks at the food, then looks at me, looks at the food again.....says "who the F do you think you are?" and we both bust out laughing.

i'd start some cooking threads but Rick would just come on there and tell everyone i cant make good roux and that we should be buying richards in a jar instead....

do you know what the subconscious is hawaiianeye? Meh...doesn't matter, its probably saying FEED ME lol

 

[His Boy Elroy]

All I'll say is that "Straight Pool 99" posted some very interesting thoughts in post # 280. Rick then replied in an equally interesting manner. So it looks to me like there are issues that might be open to discussion and debate and we can all learn from.

How many instructors are teaching "Contrived fundamentals, as the term is used by the two respective posters? How many are teaching " Natural fundamentals?" Are Sraight Pool 99 and Rick correct in using the terms "Contrived" and "Natural."

If so; is Straight Pool 99 correct in his assumption that only 1% of players have the talent to succeed with a " Natural stroke." If "Natural stroke" fundamentals are taught to 100 % of students therefore, are 99% of students going to fal with it. If everyone, therefore, is taught " Contrived fundamentals," are the 1% going to be stifled in their developement?

As I said, " Straight Pool's" post in # 280 is very interesting. So is Rick's reply. If these type issues can be explained and discussed, maybe this thread can be turned around and we could all learn something.

Let me say it in another way: I'm pretty sure issues like this are precisely what's at the source of disconnect between Rick and his critics. I've been a member of AZ for 3 years. I probably have had 70 or 80 p.m's with Rick during that time. He's a really cordial guy, even if you disagree. He just has a distain for deception, evasion, obfuscation, and all similar "ions" Talk straight to him and he'll talk straight back to you. It's certainly been the case with me.

 

[greyghost]

Bruce,

You are not pointing out any error in my judgement at all.

I don't know you & I do NOT "know" that I could trust you & especially now that you have shown yourself as to what you think you know about me & how you feel about others.

You've made your judgment & it would be bad judgement on my part if I were to trust you.

It's no big super secret information.

It is just something that would show how wrong something you said is & how naive you are about that subject.

ALL Best Wishes to ALL.

PS1 Even Jesus had enemies as He stood up for something. He did not ride the fence. He called a sinner a sinner & a hypocrite a hypocrite.

PS2 You're siding with & standing with those that would insult & attack the messenger instead of & rather than discussing an issue civilly. Jesus did not convert sinners form sin by insulting them... nor by verbally attacking THEM.

all you do is verbally attack anyone who disagrees with what you say. Or you show your literarly improve skills with a kindergardners joke "keebler"

oh and jesus and your self having a common link of having enemies......is suppposed to be saying what now? Do you like art rick? Because there was this other tyrat who lovedto paint.....

We alreayd know you think your jesus, Rick.... i mean you told ol boy earlier your omniscient....

you uncovered that Neil's my dad....something no one knew about for over 10 years.....but when your a genius i guess its easy to do.....

so in your words, the instructors are all sinners becauses of wht they teach technique wise.....what you deem is incorrect, and you then choose to harass, name call, even try to twist what Mark said to your advantage and you try and save face by pointing at Neil....

you seeked me out originally, were all buddy buddy....then OMG HE"S BEEN BODY SATCHED TOO!!!!!!

He wont kiss my butt and helpme beat mean old scott and and even meaner old man Randy G......i mean meanest guy ever.....right behind Tommy Kennedy

at least Fast Larry could do some things that were cool.....and not easy.....withyou its just like 60 mintues....only except its not news its just Rixty Minutes of you comparing things in differieng sports that aren't even the proper comparison.

Because like that movie.....you are CLUELESS. Still not a real answer from you besides, well just a statement that we are wrong you keep on repeat in that head of yours which without a doubt has to be obtuse.

Do you know what margin of error is......does your subsciouncious know what it is?

How do you even communicate with your subconscious?

I'm actually honestly interested, to hear you say something thats not complete horse puck.....something valid, not another side step and go light speed in the opposite diirection.

you been Crawfishing for weeks every day now rick......I'd tell you to grow a spine and tell us something but.....jellyfish do not possess that ability.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I am NOT a spelling champion nor am I a chef or even a cook...

but an etouffee, a stew, & a "liquid concoction'' for poaching fish are not the same things to me.

I have never ordered any Court Bouillon & had it served to me in a bowl but every etouffee I have ever ordered WAS served to me in a bowl.

An etouffee is like a stew. while a Court Bouillon is a 'liquid' that a fish is poached in.

While perhaps similar, I do not think any real Chef would call them the same thing.

Perhaps that is part of the problem. Many call different things the same when they are not the same but merely similar.

Language & Mis-communication are problems when every individual is not on the exact SAME page but instead are only on SIMILAR pages.

I guess I can see that one might have the same ingredients that would be used for an etouffee & a Court Bouillon & the DIFFERENCE would be the 'texture' & the intended use.

But I would not call them the same as they are different & the use is different.

If a Head Chef told one assistant to prepare an etouffee & another assistant to prepare a Court Bouillon, I do not think he would get the same thing as they would look rather different even if the same ingredients were used.

The etoufee's ingredients would be larger pieces while the Court-Bouillon's ingredients would be in much smaller pieces.

I think communication issues apply to discussions here on AZB about things pool related.

We are all not always on the same page in our attempted communication but instead are only on similar pages.

Anyway...

All Best Wishes for ALL.

 

[greyghost]

That is very good post, Sir.

I will relate something that I have seen in youth baseball.

A recreation dept. tried to improve the coaching by sending the coaches to clinics like hitting clinics & pitching clinics. typical youth league, full of parents for coaches, very few if any know anythingThat would be rather like the PBIA putting out a certain curriculum to teach or if almost all of the new instructors are being certified to teach by one or two of like minded individuals that are putting out one like philosophy. th pbia doiing thatwould be like the MLB actually putting on the clinic rick, not your local chapter of pony ball
Anyway, what was being taught was NOT natural & was also limiting in that it was basically just a make contact & put the ball in play type of swing. While making contact & just putting the ball in play can be a good thing... it is not hitting with power for doubles & triples & home runs or even an offensive single as it relies on either poor defense or lucky perfect placement. ohthanks for the hitting lesson,i didn't know thats the exacting goal, home runs,, doubls and tripples.......and an offensie single relies on poor defense or lucky placement????? lol more bs hilarity

One of the predominant components of what they wanted to be taught had the coaches telling boys to swing down with nearly every other sentence that came out of their mouths & I was of the 'opinion' that that was completely wrong & it certainly was producing some very bad baseball swings. ( again because they had no idea of how to teach it much less real info about how it works, because if you hit a homerun.....your doing THAT PERFECTLY...something Griffey jr did beautifully....and Im pretty sure Jr knows a little more about hitting than that guy you tried to name ride but is the end of the earth instead lol....)

I voiced my feelings but was put down with, 'but that is what was said at the clinics.'.

I never taught what 'they' wanted to be taught because I knew that it was wrong & would never do that to a boy or young man.

Then... Major League Baseball Player Randy Bush moved into the area & they got him to give a coaches clinic. Well, I asked him about this crap of swinging down & he immediately said, 'No, No. What you want is the longest distance of flat level swing that you can get. Naturally the barrel of the bat is up higher than you shoulder & it must come down from there but you never want to be swinging down.'.

I think you can figure out the point of that story.

The thing is that if a boy is taught an inferior contrived swing that is contrived to just make contact then he may never find out if he could have been a home run hitter with his natural swing.

Naturally if he can not make contact with his natural swing it may need some tweaking or maybe an over all over haul.

The point is that the coach should not automatically teach that contrived swing until he & the player knows that his natural swing is rather useless.

There are two types of fundamentals. Fundamentals for a natural swing & fundamental for a contrived swing.

All Best Wishes for You & Yours & ALL.

PS CJ Wiley is certainly NOT my hero. If I have a hero he is no longer living here on this earth but instead is with His Father in Heaven.

so some hack coaches took soemthing thats actually true and does work, and then decided to teach it wrong......because its not a downward swing......and Ken Griffey Jr. is who had that swing in spades.......

and its got a common link to pool.....that swing you and the others couldnt do or teach.....isnt in the arms its in the hands.

Secondly you cant hit homeruns, or even grounders with a level swing in baseball......an the baseball swing is most closely related to OMG YOU GUESSED IT......the pendulum stroke!

of course your cracking on a bunch of rec league "coaches" who are just some local parents lmfao....and then you bring up a guy who really was't much of a ball player, but was good in the office somewhat i guess.....your going to bring up hitting advice from a guy that cant even hit for .300 as a high in a season? Highest was 260....average over 12 years......251 most ball players people talk about knowing how to hit, when they start to hit .250 at the end of their dying days like Cal Ripken Jr did.....they retire.....because they suck now.

and ya boy gave suck advice, but i'd expect it from a someone so quick to knock everyone else when they themselves cant hit the broad side of a barn....

you basically just told us that a guy said the "cuemakers" dont know wht they are doing......and that guy who said it was Eddie Wheat.

you should be a comedian sweetheart cuz you sho is funny....oh i've had two cousins drafted, one played for atlanta you know the braves....and as far as i know I still own two state records. Stolen Bases.....and this other thing that lead off hitters do very well.....Hit for average.....for really really high averages....i never hit as low as .250 in my entire 15yr baseball career lol....i never even hit under 350........and a 742 on the season with 17 stolen bases in the state tourney isnt too bad is it? I think its good.....oh yea because that happened almost 20 years ago and its still the high water.....

tell us more about the bad news bears rick.

 

[ENGLISH!]

all you do is verbally attack anyone who disagrees with what you say. Or you show your literarly improve skills with a kindergardners joke "keebler"

oh and jesus and your self having a common link of having enemies......is suppposed to be saying what now? Do you like art rick? Because there was this other tyrat who lovedto paint.....

We alreayd know you think your jesus, Rick.... i mean you told ol boy earlier your omniscient....

you uncovered that Neil's my dad....something no one knew about for over 10 years.....but when your a genius i guess its easy to do.....

so in your words, the instructors are all sinners becauses of wht they teach technique wise.....what you deem is incorrect, and you then choose to harass, name call, even try to twist what Mark said to your advantage and you try and save face by pointing at Neil....

you seeked me out originally, were all buddy buddy....then OMG HE"S BEEN BODY SATCHED TOO!!!!!!

He wont kiss my butt and helpme beat mean old scott and and even meaner old man Randy G......i mean meanest guy ever.....right behind Tommy Kennedy

at least Fast Larry could do some things that were cool.....and not easy.....withyou its just like 60 mintues....only except its not news its just Rixty Minutes of you comparing things in differieng sports that aren't even the proper comparison.

Because like that movie.....you are CLUELESS. Still not a real answer from you besides, well just a statement that we are wrong you keep on repeat in that head of yours which without a doubt has to be obtuse.

Do you know what margin of error is......does your subsciouncious know what it is?

How do you even communicate with your subconscious?

I'm actually honestly interested, to hear you say something thats not complete horse puck.....something valid, not another side step and go light speed in the opposite diirection.

you been Crawfishing for weeks every day now rick......I'd tell you to grow a spine and tell us something but.....jellyfish do not possess that ability.

I have a real good response for you but as I was typing it out I had a Deja Vu involving Mr. Wilson. So... I guess I will just have to pass on telling you the truth & facts of matters.

So... I guess you will just keep insulting & wolfing... but I have no strings for you to pull.

All Best Wishes for ALL.

 

[greyghost]

I am NOT a spelling champion nor am I a chef or even a cook...thats not hard to tell

but an etouffee, a stew, & a "liquid concoction'' for poaching fish are not the same things to me.

I have never ordered any Court Bouillon & had it served to me in a bowl but every etouffee I have ever ordered WAS served to me in a bowl. plenty serve etoufee in a plate

An etouffee is like a stew. while a Court Bouillon is a "liguid' that a fish is poached in.

While perhaps similar, I do not think any real Chef would call them the same thing.

Perhaps that is part of the problem. Many call different things the same when they are not the same but merely similar.

Language & Mis-communication are problems when every individual is not on the exact SAME page but instead are only on SIMILAR pages.

I guess I can see that one might have the same ingredients that would be used for an etouffee & a Court Bouillon & the DIFFERENCE would be the 'texture' & the intended use.

But I would not call them the same as they are different & the use is different.

If a Head Chef told one assistant to prepare an etouffee & another assistant to prepare a Court Bouillon, I think they would look rather different even if the same ingredients were used.

The etoufee's ingredients would be larger pieces while the Court-Bouillon's ingredients would be in much smaller pieces. (ummm no not even close, again itseasy to tell you have no experience what so ever)

I think communication issues apply to discussions here on AZB about things pool related. why rick is it too hard to pretend to kno wtf your talking about when you dont because you just dont know enough keywords about this as you do some others?

We are all not always on the same page in our attempted communication but instead are only on similar pages. (When the frenc visit la nouvelle acadie.....the the pages are only similar but not the same....the communication occurrs without any downgrade of understanding.....your a very dense and obtuse person rick.....the more you talk the more i feel like you have lots of experience gained from TV and the library...you know like teenagers are, which is why its good to hire them young, because they still know everything)



Anyway...

All Best Wishes for ALL.

good night ma little patasaw

 

[ENGLISH!]

All I'll say is that "Straight Pool 99" posted some very interesting thoughts in post # 280. Rick then replied in an equally interesting manner. So it looks to me like there are issues that might be open to discussion and debate and we can all learn from.

How many instructors are teaching "Contrived fundamentals, as the term is used by the two respective posters? How many are teaching " Natural fundamentals?" Are Sraight Pool 99 and Rick correct in using the terms "Contrived" and "Natural."

If so; is Straight Pool 99 correct in his assumption that only 1% of players have the talent to succeed with a " Natural stroke." If "Natural stroke" fundamentals are taught to 100 % of students therefore, are 99% of students going to fal with it. If everyone, therefore, is taught " Contrived fundamentals," are the 1% going to be stifled in their developement?

As I said, " Straight Pool's" post in # 280 is very interesting. So is Rick's reply. If these type issues can be explained and discussed, maybe this thread can be turned around and we could all learn something.

Let me say it in another way: I'm pretty sure issues like this are precisely what's at the source of disconnect between Rick and his critics. I've been a member of AZ for 3 years. I probably have had 70 or 80 p.m's with Rick during that time. He's a really cordial guy, even if you disagree. He just has a distain for deception, evasion, obfuscation, and all similar "ions" Talk straight to him and he'll talk straight back to you. It's certainly been the case with me.

Thanks Tim.

That is a very good post. This site has missed much that you can contribute because the bullies made you feel uncomfortable & you pulled back & went silent for the most part.

I don't think we have had anywhere near 70 PMs, but I am a bit surprised that you know me as well as you seem to do.

Anyway... Thank You Very Much for trying to be a peace maker & for putting a different face on matters.

You are certainly one of the better individuals here on AZB & you make me wonder just how many like you that there are that are really the silent majority that rarely if ever post.

All of the Very Best of Wished for YOU & Yours,
Rick

 

[greyghost]

woofing rick....woofing


wolfing is what some fat slob does with the pizza at the buffet.....

pool players woof and bark

 

[ENGLISH!]

so some hack coaches took soemthing thats actually true and does work, and then decided to teach it wrong......because its not a downward swing......and Ken Griffey Jr. is who had that swing in spades.......

and its got a common link to pool.....that swing you and the others couldnt do or teach.....isnt in the arms its in the hands.

Secondly you cant hit homeruns, or even grounders with a level swing in baseball......an the baseball swing is most closely related to OMG YOU GUESSED IT......the pendulum stroke!

of course your cracking on a bunch of rec league "coaches" who are just some local parents lmfao....and then you bring up a guy who really was't much of a ball player, but was good in the office somewhat i guess.....your going to bring up hitting advice from a guy that cant even hit for .300 as a high in a season? Highest was 260....average over 12 years......251 most ball players people talk about knowing how to hit, when they start to hit .250 at the end of their dying days like Cal Ripken Jr did.....they retire.....because they suck now.

and ya boy gave suck advice, but i'd expect it from a someone so quick to knock everyone else when they themselves cant hit the broad side of a barn....

you basically just told us that a guy said the "cuemakers" dont know wht they are doing......and that guy who said it was Eddie Wheat.

you should be a comedian sweetheart cuz you sho is funny....oh i've had two cousins drafted, one played for atlanta you know the braves....and as far as i know I still own two state records. Stolen Bases.....and this other thing that lead off hitters do very well.....Hit for average.....for really really high averages....i never hit as low as .250 in my entire 15yr baseball career lol....i never even hit under 350........and a 742 on the season with 17 stolen bases in the state tourney isnt too bad is it? I think its good.....oh yea because that happened almost 20 years ago and its still the high water.....

tell us more about the bad news bears rick.

For what Major League Team did you Play, LittleFastKeebler?

 

[Mr. Bond]

You really just called Mr. Bond an internet troll. .....WOW!!!

I know right? Its pretty amusing actually, and a little sad to watch, like a turtle flipped over on his back.

It's not discussing him, personally at all. It's merely pointing out the facts regarding the activity & behavior of people... Genius.(Green text generally denotes sarcasm.)

And you & your post here fit the definition to a tee, also.

All Best Wishes for ALL.

Fixed it for you.

Your reaction to my post is dictated by your perception, not my intention.

Whipping boy.

Stay on ( your own) topic or this bird cage liner is going out to the curb.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I know right? Its pretty amusing actually, and a little sad to watch, like a turtle flipped over on his back.




Fixed it for you.

Your reaction to my post is dictated by your perception, not my intention.

Whipping boy.

Stay on ( your own) topic or this bird cage liner is going out to the curb.

Then perhaps you had better brush up on your communication skills,

Because all I can read is YOUR words that YOU directed TO ME as I can NOT read your intentions.

What exactly were your intentions with those words that YOU directed to ME?

Here they are:

Weak minds discuss people.

Whipping boy.

That certainly seem inflammatory to me.


All Best Wishes to ALL

 

[Mr. Bond]

Excuse me for pointing out the obvious.
It's your signature.
Your words.
Not mine.
Find a mirror and discuss.

 

[greyghost]

For what Major League Team did you Play, LittleFastKeebler?

you asked the wrong question......like usual....i was just stating some facts to show that i was no slouch....i went to one of the top ten highschools in the country and wehn i moved there I didnot have time for ball anymore.......

what you should have asked or at least not be so obtuse again......is if i was that good and say it works bla bla....plus plenty of majory league hitters using and teaching the techniques......instead of being a horses ass you could have just said "did a top instructor or player or someon who happened to be both show you something or are you just a freak of nature"


well though its possible I'm a freak of nature when it comes to work, my biggest strength proabably is being open to learning from others.....

honest question....when or wehn you possibly did run....how did your foot hit the ground in a contrived motion or in a natural motion?

I'm not even going to wait and just tell you that 99% of the people on this board give or take a percent would jog and run in completely contrived manner......to which you will say somehtin about natural....and most likely cant describe a natural motion that works.....

you got bad hands rick, and I'm only betting on that because i see it so often....i dont think any of the guys on here are looking at that, and most certainly not you or you wouldhave had some atleast simple answers to very elementary quesions....you deflect because you cant answer....just like hillary and all the other political figures.....maybe you will be "elected" instructor some day because you wont do the work to be recognized as one....and that doesn't mean SPF or PBIA either....but your free to negate that

 

[Scott Lee]

Elroy...Interesting that you buy into the "guff" that Rick spews in every post (all 18,000 of them). What we teach is extremely natural...once you train yourself how to do it. There is nothing "contrived" about the pendulum stroke. Anyone who believes this knows nothing about it. Rick talks a good game about having an open mind (essential to learning anything new), but will never understand how SPF and the pendulum stroke work, because his mind is completely closed to it. Randyg likes to say there's only two kinds of strokes...a good stroke, and a poor stroke. If whatever you do works, continue to use that method. If you struggle with consistency, you may wish to try something else. I respect what Straight Pool 99 has to say, because he opens his mind to the possibility that this might work for many players...even if he doesn't agree with it personally. All Rick is capable of is putting down anyone who disagrees with anything he says...and his put-downs cover the entire spectrum of respected posters here.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

All I'll say is that "Straight Pool 99" posted some very interesting thoughts in post # 280. Rick then replied in an equally interesting manner. So it looks to me like there are issues that might be open to discussion and debate and we can all learn from.

How many instructors are teaching "Contrived fundamentals, as the term is used by the two respective posters? How many are teaching " Natural fundamentals?" Are Sraight Pool 99 and Rick correct in using the terms "Contrived" and "Natural."

If so; is Straight Pool 99 correct in his assumption that only 1% of players have the talent to succeed with a " Natural stroke." If "Natural stroke" fundamentals are taught to 100 % of students therefore, are 99% of students going to fal with it. If everyone, therefore, is taught " Contrived fundamentals," are the 1% going to be stifled in their developement?

As I said, " Straight Pool's" post in # 280 is very interesting. So is Rick's reply. If these type issues can be explained and discussed, maybe this thread can be turned around and we could all learn something.

Let me say it in another way: I'm pretty sure issues like this are precisely what's at the source of disconnect between Rick and his critics. I've been a member of AZ for 3 years. I probably have had 70 or 80 p.m's with Rick during that time. He's a really cordial guy, even if you disagree. He just has a distain for deception, evasion, obfuscation, and all similar "ions" Talk straight to him and he'll talk straight back to you. It's certainly been the case with me.

 

[ENGLISH!]

All I'll say is that "Straight Pool 99" posted some very interesting thoughts in post # 280. Rick then replied in an equally interesting manner. So it looks to me like there are issues that might be open to discussion and debate and we can all learn from.

How many instructors are teaching "Contrived fundamentals, as the term is used by the two respective posters? How many are teaching " Natural fundamentals?" Are Sraight Pool 99 and Rick correct in using the terms "Contrived" and "Natural."

If so; is Straight Pool 99 correct in his assumption that only 1% of players have the talent to succeed with a " Natural stroke." If "Natural stroke" fundamentals are taught to 100 % of students therefore, are 99% of students going to fal with it. If everyone, therefore, is taught " Contrived fundamentals," are the 1% going to be stifled in their developement?

As I said, " Straight Pool's" post in # 280 is very interesting. So is Rick's reply. If these type issues can be explained and discussed, maybe this thread can be turned around and we could all learn something.

Let me say it in another way: I'm pretty sure issues like this are precisely what's at the source of disconnect between Rick and his critics. I've been a member of AZ for 3 years. I probably have had 70 or 80 p.m's with Rick during that time. He's a really cordial guy, even if you disagree. He just has a distain for deception, evasion, obfuscation, and all similar "ions" Talk straight to him and he'll talk straight back to you. It's certainly been the case with me.

Tim,

Please see my PM.

Contrivances almost constantly need justification attempts made by those that have contrived them or use them or teach them while natural methods are just that... natural.

All Best Wishes for You & Yours,

PS If I am "inevitably" not here, I hope that you will continue to not let the bullies bully you into silence. Your voice & those like yours is what AZB should be about as opposed to the bullies & hypocrites, at least in my opinion.

 

[gregcantrall]

PS If I am "inevitably" not here,

I wonder if we can look forward to a "Goodbye Cruel Forum" post. Perhaps it could warrant it's own thread.