What will it take to Jump start Pool in America

I was looking through my city?s park and recreation guide for spring 09. I was noting some of the youth activities like saber fencing, drumming, Lego fun and others.

I wonder how come no pool was offered. This would be a perfect way to get more recreational players involved in the sport. There could be class sessions for the different disciplines of pool. If more cites were to get involved, than there could be city tourneys and so on. This would work for all level of people.

So, I go to one of the places I practice at and lo and behold , someone in my area is doing something like this. He has classes at three rooms in the area. 2hr sessions, classes are 6 weeks long. Class size 6-10 people. Each week session focus on one aspect of the game such as cue ball control, stance/gripping/bridge and so on. On the info, it states ?Available through High Adult Education, Junior Colleges and Community Centers?.

Might just work.
 
Root Cause

Paul Schofield said:
An up and coming player set up the balls in an impossible situation and asked a wise old player what he would do in this spot. The wise old player looked at the situation and replied "I don't know what I would do from here, but I would certainly try to figure out how I got in this spot and try to fix that!"

The question should be "Why does pool need jump started?"

I do not think high stakes pool really will help increase interest. Because it has a slow learning curve not many people will say, "I want to win the World Series of Pool." Additionally pool and poker compliment each other a bit, most of the places I play pool also have poker players.

Anyhow, Addressing the root cause is really the issue. We have to jump start pool because it has some fierce competition: Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft.

It is difficult to compete with video games, especially since pool becomes more enjoyable as you get better. It isn't fun for the masses to constantly fail (miss balls). A few will get intrigued but most will chose to go back to their gaming console that they can play with their friends on the internet.

Below is a short example of the affect of video games on pool in our house.

I have 2 much younger brothers, one had raw talent, able to make 2, 3 ball runs at 3 years old without any training. He would play with me and my dad all the time, until he got a playstation. Now he won't even join us, he is almost 18 and could have been a very strong player if his interest hadn't been distracted. The other brother never really got into video games, he is almost 17 and is developing an interest in pool, only time will tell if it lasts.

I would really like to see pool incorporated into elementary or intermediate school similar to bowling class. It really could be a sport with teams that have a season and advance to a state level tournament. More adults will compete in state or national level pool event than football, basketball, and baseball combined so why couldn't the youth experience this when its easier to organize competitions. I would imagine billiard sales would skyrocket so the industry would have a vested interest in trying to get competitive pool involved in school.

I am sure the critiques would have concerns to incorporate pool into school because of it's stereotype from Hollywood. To those critique's I would ask - how many medical injuries are there from the popular sports (football, basketball, baseball, etc)? Aren't the football players who have died during practice in the summer enough to concern about this sport in school?

Finally, I want to add that I do enjoy watching and playing all of the sports that I mentioned, and the references are not meant to be negative, but more as a comparison that pool can have it's place alongside other extra-curricular activities.
 
I am a first time poster, so I thought I'd bury my post deep in the bowels of the past so I wouldn't have to withstand the barrage of those so much more knowledgeable than myself that I routinely see on this vast collection of pool information. People on here have answers, and they incredibly insightful, so after 6 or so years of lurking and soaking things in, I think it appropriate that I contribute. My contribution is pretty simple, yet seemingly impossible. It seems to me that we live in a world where we want things to be done or put together by some entity that either doesn't exist, or if they did would would be crushed by the weight of those who know everything and have seen it all. The jaded back-biting and competitive verve of the best players, is such that when combining the "take every edge available at all costs" attitude with the solitary nature of what it takes to get to the level of pool where you are a local hero, then you have yourself a group of people who are admired and adored for their abilities, yet are so guarded and jaded because of the hustlin' nature of the pool world that they don't usually easily welcome newbies and lesser players in easily, and want to take their share of tuition money to let someone go to their school of hard knocks. Well, those players have seen it all, every play, every angle, but there is one problem in this scenario. We don't live in that world anymore. This is an era of pool leagues and the newbies are coming up in the APA. In fact, this is kind of a better way to cut your teeth, but unfortunately this isn't a perfect world either, and their Junior's program leaves much to be desired. The APA is rife with its own hustlin' which is called sandbagging and people are pressured to lose if on a competitive team, to maintain handicap numbers. Well, this is unfortunate, and there has to be a better way. Of course there is the BEF with their Junior Nationals and Worlds Tournaments and the Pool In Schools program, but while that is excellent, it takes a teacher sponsor and a dedicated program director. I think this is the right solution with coordination for local league operators and table locations that are kid friendly to join and offer both APA Juniors or BCA Juniors leagues with an oversight by parent team managers or coaches, and a BEF program to attract kids who might need a creative way to get their lessons in geometry and problem solving and such delivered. It isn't being done very effectively at the moment, but it takes people to roll up their sleeves and dive in. The old school pool elite lament the lack of people willing to go through the school of hard knocks that they had to endure, and the result is there can be a cold shouldering effect on new players unless they take the solitary plunge and get better on their own to earn respect out of the gate as they come of age.

So, the response is such that I haven't addressed your concerns of video games, Boyersj, because I don't think it is really as bad as it seems. Kids love video games, I did, and well, I'm 45. I don't play them any more, and much prefer a night of playing pool with buddies. Today's kids are an interesting lot. Some really don't like video games and such and for the first time in decades video game sales are stagnant and even falling in certain categories. Today's kids are unique in ways that are somewhat surprising, and taking on projects that are Do It Yourself craft-style projects and wanting something that harkens back to pre-technology days, and then documenting it intricately on their phones. Live streaming events plays to this crowd, as does pool table locations that have an old school flavor, without the gambling and drinking vice. School can make things that are cool boring, so it is a strange mix of what is needed, but as you well know, there isn't a lot of push for these things in very many places. What it takes is a dedicated few to put those things into play. There are pieces that get thrown out there, but not the coordinating forces to make a total solution. I guess, that is something that has to evolve. I think there should be a group of people... a family if you will of the pool community who work together to make bigger projects like this possible, but I have found that the last people who are willing to work together for those ends are the ones who would benefit the most. The Local Heros. For the reasons that they grew up hard in the rough and tumble world of 80's and 90's post "The Color Of Money" Hustlin' days... they kind of expect the same of the next generation. If they did listen to the newbies and what they wanted, which is acceptance and to hear the experiences of the old school hustlers, coupled with being shown the ropes, then I think you'd find the heroes of the pool community would get a lot more fish wanting to test the waters of the sharks so to speak in the long run, but it would take some giving up some of the previous ideas of yesteryear. It is rare to see a 7 in APA take great care to truly mold their team, and help them learn. There has only been one I have seen who did it with great care and I call him The Greatest APA 7 Ever, not because he is the best player... Hell, he is just a very good 7 in that respect, but even that 7 could use a little softening around the edges from time to time.

It is a tough collection of things that need to be done, but technology of live streaming, improvements in leagues for juniors, and more education opportunities could make the right community a juggernaut for the future. Especially if there were plenty of resources in the area to tap to keep it cool with big events, and pro player access, and even manufacturers of pool tables and cues to draw upon. Hell, there might even be a place that has the largest state tournament and the world's largest pool league within range of such a place. You know what I mean, but it means sucking up and working with previous rivals, and well, working-well together, that isn't something the old-school top dogs have in their wheelhouse, but the people who are coming up, might. There might be a bright future for pool, but 9ft tables and grimy pool halls aren't the answer. Kids can hardly reach a 9ft table and real estate is high enough that 7ft makes more sense financially. Well, how in the world can all these things come together? It takes true leadership. POOL HAS NEVER HAD THAT. BCA was the best that ever was, in trying but they wanted to make it stuffy. They wanted to make it wear a tie to events. Pool needs the services that they broke off, to work together. It is no accident that BEF, PBIA, and BCAPL(CSI), are the things I am suggesting to solve the woes of pool's future. They are all ex-BCA programs. They just needed the stuffiness taken out, and people to take them on locally instead of a goliath telling pro's to wear a bow tie and vest to shoot in tournaments. The result of that, was Johnston City. Sure wish there were some Jansco Brothers around to do the next wave, or someone to take those old stuffy programs and insert some cool and tech savvy antics-laden modernity into them. Fun and loose, with an edge and kind of sneaking the education in there. That would be a way to get to the kids of today. Pool has all the history and stories for this generation to really grab a hold of, now it needs the conduit to translate it to today.
 
I think that pool has been trying (without much success) to present its top players as something they are not. I beleive that pool should embrace its roots and the more colorful side of the sport (Gambling & Sh*t talking) by promoting cash games among top players and televising them with the players wearing mics and without all of the dress codes and other rules that do not present the sport the way it really is.

Poker is a great example of this. Poker After Dark often has high stakes cash games that are telvised and contain foul mouthed rants (Phil Helmuth) and it seems to work for them. I honestly believe at this point it can only help.



Ya no thanks
 
An answer from a Newbie who is oft ignored.

I am a first time poster, so I thought I'd bury my post deep in the bowels of the past so I wouldn't have to withstand the barrage of those so much more knowledgeable than myself that I routinely see on this vast collection of pool information. People on here have answers, and they incredibly insightful, so after 6 or so years of lurking and soaking things in, I think it appropriate that I contribute. My contribution is pretty simple, yet seemingly impossible. It seems to me that we live in a world where we want things to be done or put together by some entity that either doesn't exist, or if they did would would be crushed by the weight of those who know everything and have seen it all. The jaded back-biting and competitive verve of the best players, is such that when combining the "take every edge available at all costs" attitude with the solitary nature of what it takes to get to the level of pool where you are a local hero, then you have yourself a group of people who are admired and adored for their abilities, yet are so guarded and jaded because of the hustlin' nature of the pool world that they don't usually easily welcome newbies and lesser players in easily, and want to take their share of tuition money to let someone go to their school of hard knocks. Well, those players have seen it all, every play, every angle, but there is one problem in this scenario. We don't live in that world anymore. This is an era of pool leagues and the newbies are coming up in the APA. In fact, this is kind of a better way to cut your teeth, but unfortunately this isn't a perfect world either, and their Junior's program leaves much to be desired. The APA is rife with its own hustlin' which is called sandbagging and people are pressured to lose if on a competitive team, to maintain handicap numbers. Well, this is unfortunate, and there has to be a better way. Of course there is the BEF with their Junior Nationals and Worlds Tournaments and the Pool In Schools program, but while that is excellent, it takes a teacher sponsor and a dedicated program director. I think this is the right solution with coordination for local league operators and table locations that are kid friendly to join and offer both APA Juniors or BCA Juniors leagues with an oversight by parent team managers or coaches, and a BEF program to attract kids who might need a creative way to get their lessons in geometry and problem solving and such delivered. It isn't being done very effectively at the moment, but it takes people to roll up their sleeves and dive in. The old school pool elite lament the lack of people willing to go through the school of hard knocks that they had to endure, and the result is there can be a cold shouldering effect on new players unless they take the solitary plunge and get better on their own to earn respect out of the gate as they come of age.

So, the response is such that I haven't addressed your concerns of video games, Boyersj, because I don't think it is really as bad as it seems. Kids love video games, I did, and well, I'm 45. I don't play them any more, and much prefer a night of playing pool with buddies. Today's kids are an interesting lot. Some really don't like video games and such and for the first time in decades video game sales are stagnant and even falling in certain categories. Today's kids are unique in ways that are somewhat surprising, and taking on projects that are Do It Yourself craft-style projects and wanting something that harkens back to pre-technology days, and then documenting it intricately on their phones. Live streaming events plays to this crowd, as does pool table locations that have an old school flavor, without the gambling and drinking vice. School can make things that are cool boring, so it is a strange mix of what is needed, but as you well know, there isn't a lot of push for these things in very many places. What it takes is a dedicated few to put those things into play. There are pieces that get thrown out there, but not the coordinating forces to make a total solution. I guess, that is something that has to evolve. I think there should be a group of people... a family if you will of the pool community who work together to make bigger projects like this possible, but I have found that the last people who are willing to work together for those ends are the ones who would benefit the most. The Local Heros. For the reasons that they grew up hard in the rough and tumble world of 80's and 90's post "The Color Of Money" Hustlin' days... they kind of expect the same of the next generation. If they did listen to the newbies and what they wanted, which is acceptance and to hear the experiences of the old school hustlers, coupled with being shown the ropes, then I think you'd find the heroes of the pool community would get a lot more fish wanting to test the waters of the sharks so to speak in the long run, but it would take some giving up some of the previous ideas of yesteryear. It is rare to see a 7 in APA take great care to truly mold their team, and help them learn. There has only been one I have seen who did it with great care and I call him The Greatest APA 7 Ever, not because he is the best player... Hell, he is just a very good 7 in that respect, but even that 7 could use a little softening around the edges from time to time.

It is a tough collection of things that need to be done, but technology of live streaming, improvements in leagues for juniors, and more education opportunities could make the right community a juggernaut for the future. Especially if there were plenty of resources in the area to tap to keep it cool with big events, and pro player access, and even manufacturers of pool tables and cues to draw upon. Hell, there might even be a place that has the largest state tournament and the world's largest pool league within range of such a place. You know what I mean, but it means sucking up and working with previous rivals, and well, working-well together, that isn't something the old-school top dogs have in their wheelhouse, but the people who are coming up, might. There might be a bright future for pool, but 9ft tables and grimy pool halls aren't the answer. Kids can hardly reach a 9ft table and real estate is high enough that 7ft makes more sense financially. Well, how in the world can all these things come together? It takes true leadership. POOL HAS NEVER HAD THAT. BCA was the best that ever was, in trying but they wanted to make it stuffy. They wanted to make it wear a tie to events. Pool needs the services that they broke off, to work together. It is no accident that BEF, PBIA, and BCAPL(CSI), are the things I am suggesting to solve the woes of pool's future. They are all ex-BCA programs. They just needed the stuffiness taken out, and people to take them on locally instead of a goliath telling pro's to wear a bow tie and vest to shoot in tournaments. The result of that, was Johnston City. Sure wish there were some Jansco Brothers around to do the next wave, or someone to take those old stuffy programs and insert some cool and tech savvy antics-laden modernity into them. Fun and loose, with an edge and kind of sneaking the education in there. That would be a way to get to the kids of today. Pool has all the history and stories for this generation to really grab a hold of, now it needs the conduit to translate it to today.
 
Carom dess code
Im just gonna drop this right here
 

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Did I forget to mention that pool needs people with the ability to communicate this story effectively, through marketing and strategic partnerships and joint ventures with pool interests as a whole. You see it is pure fantasy to think that an APA Pool League and a BCA Pool League can work together, but it is absolutely practical that they would both combine once a year for A Giant Regional Tournament or work together to help support a BEF program that is independent. Nearly all industries and localities have such organizations, non-profits that cater to the interests of the overall community, whether it be Dairy Farmer Associations making Got Milk ads and lobbying congress, or your local chamber of commerce. It is simply not fantasy to want these things, and even ask those with the vested interests in these things if they were to jump off. People with marketing savvy and a history in partnering disparate interests are in short supply, and should be coveted for their abilities to get people talking, and celebrated for their successes, instead of denigrated for their tactics and ignored out of either a lack of understanding or worse yet a feeling of jealousy in feeling left out when all are welcome. The pool world is an interesting one, and if you want to address the big things you sometimes have to start with the small and work your way up. The Man In The Mirror comes to mind, and that man, often times can do a whole lot, one step at a time. When that man has taken some great strides they can build on themselves if desired, or they can become stagnant and one can rest on their own successes, or they can rememeber all of the talks and dreams of achieving some truly big things, that might just be right out their window if they would only come outside and play. Revolutionary change is what is needed and while the revolution may have been started in this area, it didn't quite go all the way, and one person can't take the pounding of the counter-insurgents forever, and might just give up the fight. That is sad, especially when they default back to the same old take an edge and press it against the very people, that should be getting a leg up. The people who want the acceptance and education of the Local Heroes. I don't have the ability to do the things I speak of, because I'm not a good pool player and have only played a short time and don't even really know what I'm talking about. I didn't grow up in the rough and tumble times, but I've heard about em. Well, my guess is others would be enthusiastic about pool if there were more people preaching the gospel of how great it is instead of working against each other even when they are or were on the same team. If you find yourself hating the people you were supposed to work with, and wanting to work against them, well, then you are no better than they are.... and well, that sucks, and makes for a bad book... ooops, story.
 
An influx of money would go a long way towards transforming Pool in America. Matchroom is leading the way currently.
 
Clear back to when this thread was started, its clear everyone still thinks pool is America's game, when it's clearly an international sport, and needs to be looked upon at THAT level, and not in everyones little gambling corner, the real decider as to who the best players are.
 
Clear back to when this thread was started, its clear everyone still thinks pool is America's game, when it's clearly an international sport, and needs to be looked upon at THAT level, and not in everyones little gambling corner, the real decider as to who the best players are.
Yep, and the lion's share of them don't live here and haven't for some time.
 
A broad stroke of some things that are going on right now

Things are going in a positive direction right now, we are crawling along, not as fast as we would like but we are moving forward.

Mark Wilson has started a Collegiate Billiards Conference, we have 8 teams this first session and we have our first meet on Feb. 9 at 1pm and will be streamed on FaceBook live for Missouri S&T VS Lindenwood. Purdue VS Indiana State, SIUE VS University of Illinois.

The Collegiate conference has some sponsors and is looking for more, right now I know we have Simonis Cloth, Durbin Custom Cue, Diamond, Ultimate Team gear.

Mark has been trying to figure out a way to get pool back on track again and maybe one day in the near future have a Pro Tour where the top player can travel and play pool as a career.

In all of our conversations about this he knows that we have to start with the young and grow from there, we have a ever growing juniors program that was just turned over to the BCA. but the collegiate side has dropped off dramatically in the last few years. Mark is focused hard on this piece right now because without it any Semi Pro or Pro Tour is dead in the water.

In order for us to have and sustain a Pro Tour you need to have players and for those players to treat the game like a sport. (look and act the part on and off of the table)

So here is his plan: We have a juniors program that can feed into the collegiate program that can feed into a Semi PRO Tour or Professional Tour and a Semi Pro .

The Juniors continue to grow as they are doing. Grow the Collegiate Billiards Conference in the Mid West with expansion to an Eastern Conference and a Western Conference. This would get more young people into the sport.

I know the question that everyone is thinking right now, what is a Semi Pro Tour? There is a lot Regional Tours in the USA I.E. Eastern Joss Tour, The Great Southern Billiards Tour, Mid West 9 ball Tour, Mezz Tour ETC. We could use these platforms as a Semi Pro Tour. ( Working mans tour I like to think of them as )

The Pro Tour would have 12-18 events a year across the USA with a select number of players. 1 standard set of rules, dress code, ETC. The goal is that each player earn a living. You have to qualify to earn your spot and the following year maybe the bottom 12 - 16 players have to re-qualify to stay on tour.

The Semi Pro and Pro Tour are idea's that are in the distant future.

I know the Real King Cobra has some ideas of a Pro Tour so maybe Mark and Glenn can get together and share some ideas and make some things happen.
 
I am just one contract away from changing this sport into the likes that have no only never been seen before, or that is even unfathomable. My plans include the top 256 male Pros and 32 alternates drawing a salary of $10,000 a month, plus top 64 tournament earnings on a 2 year contract, same for the women pros.....and playing twice monthly, each division!!!
 
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