What would you do?

Neil said:
Number one, I'm not talking 'down' to anyone. I never said my level of play was that high, thanks for making my point. If even I can get out here, others should be able to too. If you are pounding the one, quite frankly, you don't know how to control the cb very well, or you better start playing on a table without dead rails.

All I'm trying to do on here, is help. You guys want to take it as something else, then I will stop trying to help. I'm not getting anything out of this anyways.

I still maintain that it is not that difficult of an out. Touch, maybe. Hard, no. If you think otherwise, fine, have it your way. But, quite frankly, you are missing the whole point of the thread, and are bent on just trying to make me look bad instead of trying to learn something. Typical forum behavior lately. I'm wasting my breath here.
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Neil
I don't think you're wasting your breath (does your keyboard have
respiratory capabilty?)I think there is something in the air-full moon?
Some posters ARE missing the whole point of the thread.I used the word
'maniac' with the same admiration i have for Earl,Keith or Billy Johnson.
Black-Balled described this out well - a knee trembler.It lets your opponent
know he's in uncharted territory.
But personally ,my 'white flags' tend to be thin cuts...if i want a combo
i'll order a pizza...billiard combos scare me.
A very small minority of posters don't seem to 'get it'.They think calling
you a liar or trying to beat you for your watch are reasonable responses.

But the majority recognize the community spirit of your 'what would you
do here' contibutions.
We look forward to them and never fail to learn something.
And the more arguable they are,the more fertile.
 
A quick note: sorry to everyone in general, and Neil in particular, for being a jerk on this thread.

I have lost the desire to further discuss this layout.

-s
 
I will say this. Its fun seeing how other people chose to play a table....thats how we all learn. I have learned from this thread...and none of my comments were meant to be disrespectful towards Neil..
 
pt109 said:
Neil
I don't think you're wasting your breath...
...the same admiration i have for Earl,Keith or Billy Johnson. Black-Balled...
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I am honored to be thought of so highly. Huh? There's more?! There's as period? I don't see either!:thumbup:
 
ftgokie said:
I will say this. Its fun seeing how other people chose to play a table....thats how we all learn. I have learned from this thread...and none of my comments were meant to be disrespectful towards Neil..
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It seemed like everyone was respectful to Neil. If anything, NEIL started wtih the arrogant down-talk towards everyone else, as well as the name calling bit. From there, it always goes down hill.

Me? I don't doubt that Neil made this out. I just don't agree with his assertion that this is a fairly easy out or one that you should be expecting to make a lot. If Neil feels this out aint that hard, I'm still curious how many times out of 10 that he can make it.


Eric
 
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Neil said:
Diamond barbox (7'). Had this layout the other nite. What would you do here with BIH? I thought I'd try for the runnout, and got it. I'll show later how I did it. How would you run it?

CueTable Help

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Wow, I didn't realize this thread really took this turn!!!

Okay, here are my real two cents.

Remembering that this is bar box (Diamond or not) with ball-in-hand, I do think top players will go for this out.

Assuming that the tickie on the 3-ball to make the 6-ball is easy, then the whole out seems to hang in the position from the 1-ball to the 2/4 combo. Get good there and you're suppose to go for the runout on a bar table. Get bad there, and you'll be forced to play a safety on the 2-ball (before or after pocketing the 4-ball.

If this were a 9' table, oddly enough, I think the same holds true, but the chances of getting good for the 2/4 suddenly drop, therefore a safety on the 1-balll might be the better choice.

Fred <~~~ said "top players," not me
 
dabarbr said:
This shot is normally struck with running english and with the second object ball not to far from the pocket. The farther from the pocket the more precise the hit needs to be. Rail first, then first object ball, and then to second object ball. If the second ball is fairly tight to the rail the running english will give a little insurance by hitting the rail for the second time and then spinning to the ball.

A unique variation of this shot is when the two balls are frozen to each other with the second ball also frozen to the rail. You strike rail first and then the first ball. The first ball then separates and positions the second ball slightly off the rail and waits for the cue ball to come off the rail for the second time to strike it into the pocket. We need the wei table to show a magnified view of this.

A bonus rep for someone that can diagram this.
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From what everybody is describing, this first shot is a simple tickie, right? (A tickie is a rail first carom shot):

CueTable Help




Then, there is a possibilty of a time-shot tickie too as you described - is this what you're talking about, Frank?


CueTable Help

 
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TATE said:
From what everybody is describing, this first shot is a simple tickie, right? (A tickie is a rail first carom shot):
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Actually, Chris, a tickie is a shot where you shoot into a rail first, then carom of a ball, then back into the same rail, then...

But, (I'm no expert), I would think that your first example is close enough to be considered a tickie. The main qualifying trait would be to kick off a rail first, then carom off a ball, then hit something else like a ball of rail (I'm guessing).


Eric >close enough for gov'ment work
 
TATE said:
From what everybody is describing, this first shot is a simple tickie, right? (A tickie is a rail first carom shot):

CueTable Help




Then, there is a possibilty of a time-shot tickie too as you described - is this what you're talking about, Frank?


CueTable Help

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Your example is a little more difficult to do because of the timeing involved.
Taking the two balls just like they are but move them to the rail so the the two ball is frozen to the rail and now the shot becomes high percentage.
 
Eric. said:
It seemed like everyone was respectful to Neil. If anything, NEIL started wtih the arrogant down-talk towards everyone else, as well as the name calling bit. From there, it always goes down hill.

Me? I don't doubt that Neil made this out. I just don't agree with his assertion that this is a fairly easy out or one that you should be expecting to make a lot. If Neil feels this out aint that hard, I'm still curious how many times out of 10 that he can make it.


Eric
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Im with ya Eric....I would honestly like to hear someone like Bartram, Donnie Mills or any pros' opinions on if they would try this particular table layout in a money game or tournament...I am betting....and yes I would bet money on this..That this particular setup, they would play safe on...but thats just me. I would like to hear a Pro players HONEST opinion on it though
 
If you could let this thread die, that would be great. I think we've probably exhausted the potential for meaningful discussion.

You clearly play on nicer and more predictable equipment than I do, I'll say that.

-s
 
Neil said:
It seemed like everyone was respectful to Neil. If anything, NEIL started wtih the arrogant down-talk towards everyone else, as well as the name calling bit. From there, it always goes down hill.
Actually, Eric, you did.
Me? I don't doubt that Neil made this out. I just don't agree with his assertion that this is a fairly easy out or one that you should be expecting to make a lot. Plese show me where I ever said that. You like putting words in my mouth, and then condeming me for it. Please stop doing that, we aren't married. What I DID say, is that the out is not that hard. Not that hard means hard, but not real hard. It does not equate ot easy. If Neil feels this out aint that hard, I'm still curious how many times out of 10 that he can make it. What on earth has that got to do with anything? Do you actually do that everytime you get to the table on a full rack with BIH? "Well, it's less than 70% to run out, so I won't even try, I'll just play safe off the one." I seriously doubt you do. If you are half the player I think you are, it's more like " Not a great chance to run out here, but doable. Where are my safe options if I get in trouble??" Which is what I did. This time, I didn't need any of the safe options, I got out. Tackling one situation at a time. Never had to shoot at a shot that wasn't at least 80% makeable for me. Positions could get tricky, but as long as the ball is made, I still get to shoot and play safe then. I don't play safe just because I MIGHT get out of line. I play safe if I might miss the ball.


Eric
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Neil, you seem to want to single me out here, so...

It's semantics, but the person who started to get arrogant, talk down to the others and started the name calling ("be a jerk...") was you. It's documented in this thread, I'm not gonna play he said, she said with you, anyone who wants can go read and be the judge.
*edit- everything was civil until this post: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2477713&postcount=34

Regarding your second comment, by saying "it's not hard" carries a certain meaning. Again, I'm not gonna play semantics with you.

Lastly, what does trying it 10 times prove? It'll show what your percentages are on this runout, and, give you an accurate, concrete assessment of "it's not that hard". If you can make the out 1 out of 10 times (or less), IT IS THAT HARD. I agree that you should attempt the out and play to a planned safe or play safe if you get out of line, but that goes without saying. If you manage to stay in perfect line, the out might not "be that hard", but there are plenty of areas where just getting a lil out of line would be a run stopper.


Eric >not that hard? It is a tough out, for me.
 
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Neil said:
Diamond barbox (7'). Had this layout the other nite. What would you do here with BIH? I thought I'd try for the runnout, and got it. I'll show later how I did it. How would you run it?

CueTable Help

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is it just me or is it getting harder to use the cuetable tools? at first i couldn't see what people linked using safari then i updated my safari and it would work. then i couldn't get it to work with safari but it would work with firefox but now it won't. i don't get it?
 
steev said:
If you could let this thread die, that would be great. I think we've probably exhausted the potential for meaningful discussion.

You clearly play on nicer and more predictable equipment than I do, I'll say that.

-s
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Wait! We can't let it die until I figure out what a "Tickie" is.

Chris ----> also thought "leeche nuts" was venereal disease.
 
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