What's going on in Florida

[SSach]

This was reported on Insidepool.com -

"Deuel walked out in the middle of his Tuesday match with Danny Basavich, and Nevel quit during his Wednesday afternoon match with Charlie "Hillbilly" Bryant. No further details were available o*n this situation."

Anybody hear why these two would just call it quits in the middle of the match? This UPA thing needs some help.. major help...

Personally, I think they should call in Allen Hopkins, Grady Mathews, and Mike Zuglan for some help. These guys have proven how to run successful pool/billiard events. Such a sad state for the UPA.

 

[JustPlay]

This was reported on Insidepool.com -

"Deuel walked out in the middle of his Tuesday match with Danny Basavich, and Nevel quit during his Wednesday afternoon match with Charlie "Hillbilly" Bryant. No further details were available o*n this situation."

Anybody hear why these two would just call it quits in the middle of the match? This UPA thing needs some help.. major help...

Personally, I think they should call in Allen Hopkins, Grady Mathews, and Mike Zuglan for some help. These guys have proven how to run successful pool/billiard events. Such a sad state for the UPA.

Corey walked out of the middle of his match with Basavich to play a round of golf while Danny was in between shooting 1-ball and 2-ball of the 6th game. When it is Corey's turn to shoot he will return to the table.

If Nevel can't win from the onset of any match, he refuses to come from behind.....

 

[azhousepro]

I heard Corey was trailing 5-1 or 6-1 and he left. Hadn't heard about the Nevel/Bryant situation.

Mike

 

[jjinfla]

Corey would just rather be outside enjoying the beautiful Florida weather.

I wonder who was in his foursome.

And how much they were playing for.

This is not the first time he left a match to play golf.

Jake

 

[sjm]

Corey would just rather be outside enjoying the beautiful Florida weather.

I wonder who was in his foursome.

And how much they were playing for.

This is not the first time he left a match to play golf.

Jake

In view of his conduct, only the naive among us would consider Corey Deuel a professional. Actually, he is a UPA............................unbelievably pathetic amateur.

 

[Kerry Impson]

Sjm is right, and although I hate to say this, if it's true that Corey would rather "be outside enjoying the beautiful Florida weather" then maybe he shouldn't have entered the tournament in the first place! (I just don't GET it!!!) And please don't tell me this incident occurred at the inaugural Hilton tournament (which had such a disappointing turnout of only 43 players anyway!!)??

 

[biGhuK]

Nah I was standing 4' from the table when it happened. Corey was getting bad rolls and danny was running out from everywhere. He got discouraged murmered something about "it being stupid to watch this." and walked out. I was sitting next to Johnny at the time and I looked at him and figured a reaction but it seemed to be "common place" almost, i'm assuming because he had no reaction to it and just carried on convo :/.

 

[JAM]

Nah I was standing 4' from the table when it happened. Corey was getting bad rolls and danny was running out from everywhere. He got discouraged murmered something about "it being stupid to watch this." and walked out. I was sitting next to Johnny at the time and I looked at him and figured a reaction but it seemed to be "common place" almost, i'm assuming because he had no reaction to it and just carried on convo :/.

I deleted a thread I initiated because I missed this one about the UPA-sanctioned $20,000-added NAOT tournament at the Hilton Sandestin Beach Golf Resort and Spa in Destin, Florida.

Hey, biGhuK, can you provide some details about the equipment and rules in force? Are they using the Sardo rack? Is a 30-second shot clock in effect? How many tables are being used? For a 43-player field and the tournament beginning Sunday, November 28th, and today being December 2nd, it sure does seem like this tournament could have transpired in shorter period of time (IMO). How many rounds are being played each day?

Relating to players conceding games, I do not believe this is common place at all, even though I have witnessed it myself on occasion.

Imagine a professional golfer on the PGA Tour competing in an 18-hole event and walking off after the 14th hole because he/she doesn't like their score? It seems like bad sportsmanship, and I hope the UPA addresses this with each of its members to prevent it from happening in the future.

Nobody likes to be benched while their opponent is running out from everywhere, but a "PROFESSIONAL" -- key word here -- should not unscrew their sticks, pack up their gear, and exit the premises mid match because their opponent is playing well.

Johnny Archer and Charlie Williams seem to be having a great tournament, both on the A side of the charts, but I've gotta root for the home team and hope Mike Davis, currently battling his way up from the losers' bracket, brings home the bacon. Go get 'em, Mike!

Picture of Charlie "Hillbilly" Bryant and Mike Davis celebrating at a Joss tourney earlier this year.

JAM

 

[sjm]

...Imagine a professional golfer on the PGA Tour competing in an 18-hole event and walking off after the 14th hole because he/she doesn't like their score? It seems like bad sportsmanship, and I hope the UPA addresses this with each of its members to prevent it from happening in the future.

Nobody likes to be benched while their opponent is running out from everywhere, but a "PROFESSIONAL" -- key word here -- should not unscrew their sticks, pack up their gear, and exit the premises mid match because their opponent is playing well...

Bravo, JAM, that's about the size of it! The only time I can remember it happening in pro golf was when John Daly walked off the course after a few bad holes. It was a huge story, and was, at the time, viewed as evidencing that Daly had not fully rebounded from his bout with alcohol abuse. I'd have to say that Deuel's status in pro pool is comparable to that of Daly in golf.

Eve if you ignore that this kind of behavior is unsportsmanlike and unprofessional, at least as important is that customers have paid for the privilege of watching the match. Far too many of the men continue to take their paying customers lightly, so nobody should be surprised that they play in front of modest fanfare and draw little coverage,

It has been alleged that Joe DiMaggio once took a swing with his fist at a Yankee rookie who had given less than a full effort in competition. In pool, giving less than a full effort in competition doesn't even earn you a reprimand, let alone a beating.

 

[jjinfla]

And of course there was another player on the Florida Pro Tour at the final stop, who usually finishes in the top 20 but not top 8, forfeited his match because he was playing internet poker and was in the money.

Everyone has their own priorities.

Jake

 

[satman]

After years of bitching about major sponsors not coming on board, this is absolutely the worst thing players can do. The Hilton people are probably thrilled with the turnout and the forfeits. Are these tournaments open to all players? Or is this UPA players only? Some people may not like it, but if the entry fees were like the Joss tour and open to all players, they could probably have 200 players per event.
As for quitting in the middle of a match, for anything other than a family emergency or extremely ill health, that just plain sucks. They should be barred from the rest of these events.
I have a friend who got food poisioning and started throwing up right before a match, informed his opponent that he may need a couple of bathroom breaks and the match was on. That's what I call heart. Never quit until the match is done. You never know when someone will miss a ball they shouldn't, and fall dead out of stroke. Sam

PS. Thanks Jam for all the updates.

 

[JAM]

...Even if you ignore that this kind of behavior is unsportsmanlike and unprofessional, at least as important is that customers have paid for the privilege of watching the match. Far too many of the men continue to take their paying customers lightly, so nobody should be surprised that they play in front of modest fanfare and draw little coverage...."

Experiencing firsthand the current tournament-inclined racket for only a mere 4 years or more, it is my opinion that the successful major events, ones that are profitable in terms of incoming monies, are those associated with the masses of pool folk, the league players.

Super Billiards Expo and the Derby City Classic are prime examples. The fields in the Valley Forge pro event fill up fast, and if you snooze, you lose and won't be able to get in. The format of the Derby City Classic is attractive to the average Joe Pool Player with the buy-back format.

Currently, the battle between the leagues is affecting some venues. One vendor may not provide their service to a tournament promoter because the league has an agreement with a competing vendor.

Most of us on this forum have a desire to see the sport advance, but if you were to walk down Main Street in Anywhere, USA, and ask them who Efren Reyes or Johnny Archer is, I'd be surprised if one in 100 could come up with the correct answer.

The pool player has an obligation to perform for paying spectators. The problem, though, is the amount of paying spectators relating to men's professional pool is miniscule.

The UPA's mission is a good one, but they are fighting a very tough battle in today's world, AND a very large majority of today's performing pool players are unable to earn a living or make ends meet.

JMHO, FWIW.

JAM

 

[JAM]

I just wanted to type that pool has no organized sactioning body that controls all of tours and tournaments. Walking out on a match is a result of no rules to stop it. Pool players may call it exercising an option but I call it lack of character.

Hi, Gremlin! Top of the morning to you.

The WPBA has been in existence a lot longer than the UPA. They've elevated their status and continue to make strides, especially relating to ESPN coverage.

The UPA has a Rules Committee, and I hope these guys get together and discuss this Florida tourney in detail, and maybe they could come up with a strategy for the next leg of the Hilton-sponsored NAOT tourney in Pittsburgh, to occur in February of 2005. The Hilton's involvement with pool is probably one of the best things that has happened in a very long time. Somebody or something needs to fix this.

I do believe, though, since the current UPA lot of touring pros seems to have diminished, as well as the fact that the pre-existing and established UPA rules are not being adhered to, the Hilton NAOT events should be open to all.

In fairness to the UPA, they did send out a letter to its members as well as previous members requesting patronage and attendance at the Florida event.

JAM

 

[Pelican]

If a player wants to forfeit I guess that's his business. I did it once myself when a tournament ran about 4 hours longer than it should have. If I had stayed until 2am for my match I wouldn't have been able to see the balls anyway.

If a player simply wants to do something else and expects to restart the match later at his convenience that's BS. Another board has a thread "What's Wrong With Pool". My initial answer was "Inflated Arrogant Egos". I stand by that. The UPA and all other 'pro' organizations should have the rule the APA uses - I you break your stick or in any other way act to be conceding you lose the match.

Later, Pel

 

[cardiac kid]

Most of us on this forum have a desire to see the sport advance, but if you were to walk down Main Street in Anywhere, USA, and ask them who Efren Reyes or Johnny Archer is, I'd be surprised if one in 100 could come up with the correct answer.

I think you are overestimating the pool knowledge of the American public. I'd say more like one in a thousand! And then only in a pool conscious city like Vegas or Philly. Concurrently, I bet if you asked who Minnesota Fats was, those same people might recognize the name without knowing why.

I had breakfast with Ralf Souquet early this year. I asked him, as a World Champion player, if he was recognized walking down the street in Europe. He laughingly replied that other than Busti and a few snooker players, no one knew who the best players were. Even in his home town! Thats a sorry state of affairs.

The pool player has an obligation to perform for paying spectators. The problem, though, is the amount of paying spectators relating to men's professional pool is miniscule.

Ouch, you flew an arrow right through my heart! Sad, but true.

 

[sniper]

As for quitting in the middle of a match, for anything other than a family emergency or extremely ill health, that just plain sucks. They should be barred from the rest of these events.
I have a friend who got food poisioning and started throwing up right before a match, informed his opponent that he may need a couple of bathroom breaks and the match was on. That's what I call heart. Never quit until the match is done. You never know when someone will miss a ball they shouldn't, and fall dead out of stroke. Sam

I couldn't agree more, if a player forfit a match you forfit your membership with that specific tour/organization. I'm not sure how many fans attended this event it probably wasn't alot but Duel vs Basavich would be a big match and there would be fans watching, and their the ones losing, why should they pay their hard earned $$ to watch a match that ends mid way because one player walks out.

This shows why Cory never was and never will be a champion (in my books), he's got no heart and no passion for the game. Did Efren ever give up....I didn't think so.

 

[JAM]

I think you are overestimating the pool knowledge of the American public. I'd say more like one in a thousand!....

I think your estimate is closer to reality, Cardiac Kid!

I gotta tell you a funny story. Keith and I were "on the road" traveling through Morgantown, West Virginia. We were en route to an off-track-betting facility, but got lost. So we stopped in a little coffee shop on the side of a mountain in the boondocks. They had a small gift shop in the back filled with candies, souvenirs, CD's, tapes, and knickknacks for sale.

The owner, a friendly sort of fellow, was the chief, cook, and bottle-washer. He asked me what I did for a living, and I told him. Then he asked Keith the same question, and he responded, "I'm a pool player." Trying to be nice, I guess, the owner said, "Hey, do you guys like movies? I've got a pool movie you may be interested in." He rushes towards his gift shop, searches through his selection of videotapes, and as you may have already guessed, he presented us with a used, but in very good condition, "The Color of Money" tape.

I said to the kind fellow, "Sir, you're not going to believe this, but...." Keith ended up autographing the videotape for the owner, and we went about our merry way.

JAM

 

[cardiac kid]

I couldn't agree more, if a player forfit a match you forfit your membership with that specific tour/organization. I'm not sure how many fans attended this event it probably wasn't alot but Duel vs Basavich would be a big match and there would be fans watching, and their the ones losing, why should they pay their hard earned $$ to watch a match that ends mid way because one player walks out.

Sniper, I couldn't agree more with both you and Sam. Only problem is, as someone pointed out earlier, there is no single sanctioning body. Does anyone remember when Earl was throwing in racks from the five or six when he was way behind? How did some TD's stop that crap? Mike Zuglan simply enforced his "shoot the nine ball" rule! You concede the nine, you lose that rack and another as a penalty. Do it again, you concede the match. It is simple but effective. I feel that a forfeit, other than for medical reasons, is inexcuseable. Whether or not fans are present. Scott Frost forfeited a majority of his matches in Vegas last month. One pocket, banks and ten ball. He was too busy elsewhere. We deserve better!

 

[Williebetmore]

Larry Bird kind of summed up my viewpoint when he said, "When I see guys out on the court that aren't hustling and not trying their best it makes me want to vomit."

 

[Wally in Cincy]

...Does anyone remember when Earl was throwing in racks from the five or six when he was way behind?...

I saw Earl at DCC scooping up the balls against Chris Bartram when Bartram was on the 4-ball. Hell I wanted to see the kid shoot. Chris couldn't get in stroke and ended up losing.

Earl said that Bartram called him a lying queer after the match .

..Scott Frost forfeited a majority of his matches in Vegas last month. One pocket, banks and ten ball. He was too busy elsewhere. We deserve better!

As you no doubt recall he forfeited his loser match at the Open. He was at Q-Masters playing 1P with a guy named Pookie.

At this rate I might never get to see either one of them shoot again in my lifetime