Johnnybgood
Banned
BINGO!!!!!! So many players do not understand this and may never play a cue that exhibits “outstanding” performance in all categories.
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What's Good About A "Good Hit"?
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
BINGO!!!!!! So many players do not understand this and may never play a cue that exhibits “outstanding” performance in all categories.
Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
A good hit, for me, is the result of a good, straight stroke with a loose grip on the cue. To me, the cue is like a musical instrument in that it needs to be able to resonate, or ring, in order to work its magic on the cue ball. A good hit is absolutely necessary if you're going to be able to make the world class shots such as drawing the length of the table from a table length away. When you hit the ball well you know it....just like in baseball there's a sweet spot and an effortlessness and a sound and a feel that really satisfies. And I hate to say it folks but it has way more to do with the skill of the player than his equipment.
I like a hit that feels dense - I think that's mostly about taper. If it can sound dense too, that's a bonus.
pj
chgo
Simply...
The rock moves exactly as intended, consistently. And, the cue has “that sound”, hard to explain but you know know it when you hear it.
The rock moves exactly as intended, consistently. And, the cue has “that sound”, hard to explain but you know know it when you hear it.
I know for certain that the butt of the cue is a factor in the " hit ". I've experimented a lot with the same shafts on different butts and the butts of the cues are a factor.
That being said a world class player can win world championships and US Opens with a Cuetec, no problem.
I've been watching Siming Chen play more and more.There was a lot of controversy about her on the forum. I added to the controversy myself but the more I see her in action the more I have to admit that the girl has game.
She is playing with a Gaboon Ebony and Tulipwood SW and that's what I play with.
Ebony forearm cues have a very unique hit. A lot of ebony cues are cored because of the weight. The core is maple. My cue is solid ebony in the forearm.
I told SW that I wanted the cue to come in at no more than 19.5 ounces and that is not easy to do with ebony because its very dense.
The butt makes a big difference, and I have noticed that certain joints systems within
well respected cuemakers just don't have it.
I like to stick with whatever type of joint a particular cuemaker is known for.
X-cuemaker's piloted ivory joint hits better than his big pin cues, and Y-cuemaker's
big pin cues hit better than his piloted steel jointed cues.
There are a lot of variables and after experimenting with most of the ferrule materials
out there, including other versions of the same name, different glues, and various
tips and tip durometer testing, I understand why certain cues don't feel right.
There are some really great cuemakers who have a weird shaft taper that doesn't
make sense, and if I was the only one saying it I would not repeat it.
Same thing with cuemaker's who are known for using a certain type of ferrule
material, it doesn't make sense.
I have even purchased cues that I refer to it as the psychic cue...psychic in that I
know it's going to play bad before I get it.
well respected cuemakers just don't have it.
I like to stick with whatever type of joint a particular cuemaker is known for.
X-cuemaker's piloted ivory joint hits better than his big pin cues, and Y-cuemaker's
big pin cues hit better than his piloted steel jointed cues.
There are a lot of variables and after experimenting with most of the ferrule materials
out there, including other versions of the same name, different glues, and various
tips and tip durometer testing, I understand why certain cues don't feel right.
There are some really great cuemakers who have a weird shaft taper that doesn't
make sense, and if I was the only one saying it I would not repeat it.
Same thing with cuemaker's who are known for using a certain type of ferrule
material, it doesn't make sense.
I have even purchased cues that I refer to it as the psychic cue...psychic in that I
know it's going to play bad before I get it.
Maybe I am wrong but "hit" is like "hot food", what some people call too hot, is just right with other people.
I think it is a question that will be asked again, and again. Maybe the answer is individual preference? What feel good to you personally. Maybe?
JMHO.
I find it interesting that you do not care for how a cue feels and that the visual information that you receive from watching the cue move is enough for you. Especially since you go so deep into the physics and science of pool.
The brain is a much like a computer at taking in and storing information. While playing pool I use my senses (feel, sound, sight) all the time. Those are all pieces of information the brain uses in order to make a certain judgment on any given shot for spin, cut angle, and power. I feel like those additional pieces of information (sound, vibration) that come with a good "hit" are very useful when playing pool. I can make better judgment on how I need to hit the next ball because there are more senses that I can use. I believe that a cue that has a good hit can "play" better because my brain takes in that additional information and uses it intuitively.
Have you ever driven a stick before? When I shift I listen to the engine rev, I can feel it in the shift knob as I get closer to shift point and when I try to rev match I use the tach along with the feeling in my foot. After a while of driving it starts to become natural and the brain just takes in all that information and you no longer need to look at the rpms to shift. Imagine if we could only use the visual image of the RPM's going up and down to shift? It would be a different experience. My car feels different in 2nd gear going up an incline vs going down a hill and my brain uses all the information it can to make driving manual as smooth as possible.
I feel the same way about playing with a nice hitting cue. It helps (at least me) to have those extra pieces of information when deciding how I am going to hit the cue in order to make for tight position.
Just my thoughts
Ricardo
kenny hall
Registered
A full splice cue butt with a medium hard tip
(Triangle, LePro, etc) and a ferrule about the same hardness as the maple shaft and the front splice of maple. The back splice is optional, but bocote or zebrawood would be my choice; some wood with a bit more density and weight than maple,
As for the joint, I like a 3/8-11 pin, brass if you like a little more forward balance, maybe G !0 or aluminum for more rearward balance. I think this, executed well by a cue builder, gives you the best chance of the connected feedback feel, the "great hit" of a fine playing cue.
Everything beyond this is for show, not go. lol, I sell cues, but all are plain looking good "players". I like to look at pretty cues, though!
Player- old Heubler sneaky with 1st generation 314 30 inch shaft, melamine ferrule, pressed Triangle tip, 5/16-18 wood to wood joint. 18.8 oz. (rosewood/maple- balance 18.7")
break cue- BK 2 shaft with phenolic tip, Cheap Stealth butt, 18.8 oz.
jump cue- custom purpleheart shaft with phenolic tip with a constant taper (5 oz.), 13.5 mm at tip. McDermott cheap handle for short dart jumps and a purpleheart 16 " handle for longer jumps. 3'8-10 wood to wood joint
Kenny, the Messenger, Hall
(Triangle, LePro, etc) and a ferrule about the same hardness as the maple shaft and the front splice of maple. The back splice is optional, but bocote or zebrawood would be my choice; some wood with a bit more density and weight than maple,
As for the joint, I like a 3/8-11 pin, brass if you like a little more forward balance, maybe G !0 or aluminum for more rearward balance. I think this, executed well by a cue builder, gives you the best chance of the connected feedback feel, the "great hit" of a fine playing cue.
Everything beyond this is for show, not go. lol, I sell cues, but all are plain looking good "players". I like to look at pretty cues, though!
Player- old Heubler sneaky with 1st generation 314 30 inch shaft, melamine ferrule, pressed Triangle tip, 5/16-18 wood to wood joint. 18.8 oz. (rosewood/maple- balance 18.7")
break cue- BK 2 shaft with phenolic tip, Cheap Stealth butt, 18.8 oz.
jump cue- custom purpleheart shaft with phenolic tip with a constant taper (5 oz.), 13.5 mm at tip. McDermott cheap handle for short dart jumps and a purpleheart 16 " handle for longer jumps. 3'8-10 wood to wood joint
Kenny, the Messenger, Hall
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I had the opportunity to be schooled by Cole Dickson on this very subject. To the best of my recollection he explained it like this: Straight pool players require less movement but more accurate placement of the cue ball. Nine ball players need more movement with a larger target area. Straight pool requires a stiff shaft and nine ball or rotation would do better with a flexing shaft, similar to the flex and spring in a pole vault stick.
Aside from Efren beating the world with his $15 or $20 cue, I remember a funny situation that came up with Shane when he was playing Earl on TAR stream, this was the one with the gaffey 10' GC.
There came a point where Shane's cue began buzzing every shot like the ferrule came loose and Justin C was in the booth and couldn't get over just how bad that buzz was live and how it, of course, made no difference to Shane because he had his hearing aid turned down.
So, apparently, the wonderful ping noise I described as being part of the great feedback experience isn't necessary for all who wish to play at a very high level.
And, apparently, neither is using a stick that costs more than $20 (adjust to $130 for today's value).
But I still like that <<<ping>>> :grin:
best,
brian kc
There came a point where Shane's cue began buzzing every shot like the ferrule came loose and Justin C was in the booth and couldn't get over just how bad that buzz was live and how it, of course, made no difference to Shane because he had his hearing aid turned down.
So, apparently, the wonderful ping noise I described as being part of the great feedback experience isn't necessary for all who wish to play at a very high level.
And, apparently, neither is using a stick that costs more than $20 (adjust to $130 for today's value).
But I still like that <<<ping>>> :grin:
best,
brian kc
Earl won the match.
In the butt section the handle is the difference, right?
Indeed he did.
And Shane, even on bad days, plays better than all of us on our good days. :wink:
My point was that even with a buzzing cue, he plays strong. That match, just not strong enough to beat Earl. The table may have been a factor, as well.
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My response to Cole:
Shaft "flex and spring" doesn't add to power - there's not enough time during contact for the "spring" to happen. Maybe the flex without the spring decreases power...?
For similar reasons shaft flexibility doesn't reduce accuracy.
pj
chgo
Just providing the opinion that Cole related to me. It was given in the context of explaining what he wanted in a cue. I think he also indicated that most Balabuskas were suited more for straight pool.
When I knew him Cole was shooting with a Joss with stainless steel joint and ivory ferrule with what seems to be a standard pro taper. Oh yea and water buffalo tips, made by a person that was deceased. At one time he pawned his cues to me. When we met for him to repay the loan, the first thing he checked was to make sure he still had all 6 of the tips that he carried, as they were no longer available.
I am still shooting with a cue made for Cole by Joss in the middle to late 80s.(One that I loaned him money on then bought when he repaid the loan.) The wrap had a nick in it and when it came unraveled under the wrap was Cole and the date. So it was specifically made for him.
That is the cue in my avatar.
kenny hall
Registered
What makes that Joss a good "hitting" cue to you? We are talking about our opinions of a "great hit" and what that special hit is derived from.
The hit of a cue is a very subjective, ethereal subject that is whatever feels right in our hands, but there are construction techniques that make the transference of power and finesse a more sure bet. Every cue is different because they are made from different pieces of wood (in some cases carbon fiber). I say if you want "dead" use CF (fiberglass). If you desire "feel" use solid maple shafts and great joinery in the butt. Above all, use a good, consistent tip that you form and install yourself. A good start is a Triangle either pressed or beat with a cue ball for several hours. Changing "faddish" tips all the time is a sure way to be inconsistent in your game.
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The main thing is familiarity. I have been shooting with it since 1988.
I ran into Cole a couple of years after I bought it from him and he told me, "You know I would not be able to shoot with that cue now." So even though Joss had his specks and could make him another, each one is different. Not much but enough that a top pro needs to spend time with a new cue or shaft or tip to get the precision they are capable of executing. So the general characteristics of ivory ferule, pro taper, maple shaft, stainless joint, 19.5 ounces, the balance point, etc, are just the beginning. I know he would go through many shafts(even from a top cue maker) to find one he wanted to play with.