What's Good About A "Good Hit"?

[Kickin' Chicken]

I posted the following five years ago:

It Don't Mean A Thing If It Ain't Got That Ping . . . - 12-15-2013, 08:55 AM

doo-wop doo-wop doo-wop...

The main characteristic I look for in the way a cue hits is the sharp note, the <<<ping>>> noise made when striking the cue ball. I can play with other cues that don't have it just like I can drive a VW, but the pingers, to me, they make me feel like I'm driving a Ferrari.

I've made the analogy before that it's like if you were standing on a concrete sidewalk and had a length of 2 x 4 lumber in your hand and while holding it vertically just a foot off the ground, let it go and you'll hear the <<<ping>>>. Compare this to if you hold that same 2 x 4 horizontally, drop it and what do you get? A: an undesirable ///thwaaap\\\.

most cues are somewhere in the middle. I want the <<<ping>>>.

All of the Sugartrees I've ever hit except one, have this for sure. The majority of TS cues have it. About half of the Olneys I've hit with have this, as well. And nearly all of the Tascs and SWs do, too.

To me, a cue that possesses the sharp note ping is indicative of a stiff hitter with perfect feedback (my taste). One that feels like it moves whitey with great ease and every shot feels like you are hitting a laser-beam line drive off the sweet spot of a Louisville Slugger. Even feels sweet on soft finesse shots.

<snip>

best,
brian kc

 

[dr_dave]

I’ve always felt that it was a combo of the feel of the cue in your hands, the sound it makes upon contact with the CB, and the vibration passing through the cue into your fingers. Never understood how guys play with earbuds in — it totally deadens the feedback you’re getting when shooting, IMO.

Lou Figueroa

Lou,

I personally don't care how a cue feels, sounds, or vibrates. All I care about is how the CB moves ... that's "feedback" enough for me.

Why do you personally value the feel, sound and vibration of a hit? What useful information does this provide to you, and how do you use that information?

Thanks,
Dave

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Here’s mine...

Feedback:
- stiff hit (+ hard tip)
- unmuffled impact (good sound & vibration feedback)

Cue Performance:
- small tip for accurate tip placement
- very low squirt
- good power transference (from stiffness and hard tip)
- wrapless non-slip grip (works well with light grip)

pj
chgo

 

[jimmyco]

Hit about 5000 balls, and any cue can hit a ton. At least literally, if not figuratively.

 

[dr_dave]

Here’s mine...

Feedback:
- stiff hit (+ hard tip)
- unmuffled impact (good sound & vibration feedback)

Cue Performance:
- small tip for accurate tip placement
- very low squirt
- good power transference (from stiffness and hard tip)
- wrapless non-slip grip (works well with light grip)

pj
chgo

PJ and others interested in this topic,

Check out the cue "feel," "hit," "feedback," and "playability" resource page. I think it does a fairly good job summarizing everything.

Enjoy,
Dave

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Lou,

I personally don't care how a cue feels, sounds, or vibrates. All I care about is how the CB moves ... that's "feedback" enough for me.

Why do you personally value the feel, sound and vibration of a hit? What useful information does this provide to you, and how do you use that information?

Thanks,
Dave

My cue's objective performance traits are most important to me, but I also think its subjective feedback helps me learn more quickly and accurately what kind of hit produces what kind of CB motion. I don't try to identify the specific benefits or their sources, just have the general notion that more info is better.

pj <- still not Lou after all these years
chgo

 

[overlord]

Lou,

I personally don't care how a cue feels, sounds, or vibrates. All I care about is how the CB moves ... that's "feedback" enough for me.

Why do you personally value the feel, sound and vibration of a hit? What useful information does this provide to you, and how do you use that information?

Thanks,
Dave

A lot of one pocket players like cues that are not too stiff. Both T. Cho and J. Hall use cues with regular ferrules. I would like to know what you think about this phenomena.

Thx.

 

[dr_dave]

A lot of one pocket players like cues that are not too stiff. Both T. Cho and J. Hall use cues with regular ferrules. I would like to know what you think about this phenomena.

Thx.

All I can think of is: "personal preference," and maybe "tradition."

Regards,
Dave

 

[garczar]

A lot of one pocket players like cues that are not too stiff. Both T. Cho and J. Hall use cues with regular ferrules. I would like to know what you think about this phenomena.

Thx.

T-Rex played for YEARS with a SW. Those are pretty stiff hitting cues.

 

[dr_dave]

My cue's objective performance traits are most important to me, but I also think its subjective feedback helps me learn more quickly and accurately what kind of hit produces what kind of CB motion. I don't try to identify the specific benefits or their sources, just have the general notion that more info is better.

pj <- still not Lou after all these years
chgo

I am aware of the "feel" and "sound" of hits, but I think most of my "feedback" comes from watching the CB and subconsciously correlating the motion to my stroke (length and acceleration) and tip position.

Regards,
Dave

 

[overlord]

All I can think of is: "personal preference," and maybe "tradition."

Regards,
Dave

There has to be more to it than that. Efren plays with a whippy shaft and a regular ferrule. If he thought that LD shafts would help his overall game it follows that he would change over.

On your page it says stiff cues are more efficient. Why would Efren want to play with a less efficient cue?

 

[jrctherake]

I think it means less than zero as a "player".

As a collector or buyer/seller......which is what most "collectors" really are in the end, it is nothing more than a buzz word to use as a selling point to the uneducated.

That's my ghost beating with "any" cue's opinion,

Rake

 

[dr_dave]

There has to be more to it than that. Efren plays with a whippy shaft and a regular ferrule. If he thought that LD shafts would help his overall game it follows that he would change over.

If somebody has played with a particular type of cue their whole life, they might not like adjusting to playing with something very different. Although, I'm sure Efren could play just as well with any type of tip, shaft, or cue, given a little practice time.

On your page it says stiff cues are more efficient. Why would Efren want to play with a less efficient cue?

Hit efficiency is mostly a result of the tip. A harder tip typically delivers more speed to the CB for a given stroke speed. Not all players like a hard tip, and some players have more "touch" and "control" with a less "efficient" tip/cue, where small changes in stroke speed will have less effect on CB speed.

Regards,
Dave

 

[qbilder]

My cue's objective performance traits are most important to me, but I also think its subjective feedback helps me learn more quickly and accurately what kind of hit produces what kind of CB motion. I don't try to identify the specific benefits or their sources, just have the general notion that more info is better.

pj <- still not Lou after all these years
chgo

^ That. The sound & feel of the hit allow me to know how well my stroke is working. An odd sound and/or a raspy feel on a hit, even if the ball basically does what it's supposed to do, means I did something wrong and got lucky it wasn't bad enough to negatively affect my shot.

Hearing and feeling and seeing everything as you hit balls builds a baseline. When things are going well you don't notice anything. It's when you hear or feel something different that you are alarmed that your stroke is deviating from where it should be, usually well before it begins noticeably affecting play. In other words, everything in sync means good. Something off is like playing a violin out of tune and is quite alarming.

On another note(pun intended), having made so many cues for so many years I have become in tune(did it again) with the relation between sound/feel/performance. Cues with a particular sound and feel tend to be the best performers. Those seemingly magic cues that Ted mentioned pretty much all have that exact sound and feel, regardless of who made the cue. Some cues simply make you feel like you can't miss. I don't know exactly what the formula is. I've been chasing it for years the way a miner is always trying to strike. I have some ideas and can get pretty close with almost every cue, but admittedly am missing some part of the equation because perfecting it still eludes me. That said, it's as real and recognizable as lightning. You know it as soon as you hit with one. I just don't know the why or how behind it.

 

[DaveK]

I am aware of the "feel" and "sound" of hits, but I think most of my "feedback" comes from watching the CB and subconsciously correlating the motion to my stroke (length and acceleration) and tip position.

Regards,
Dave

Yet you can likely tell a miscue instantly, before getting any information from the cueball motion.

Dave

 

[overlord]

If somebody has played with a particular type of cue their whole life, they might not like adjusting to playing with something very different. Although, I'm sure Efren could play just as well with any type of tip, shaft, or cue, given a little practice time.

Hit efficiency is mostly a result of the tip. A harder tip typically delivers more speed to the CB for a given stroke speed. Not all players like a hard tip, and some players have more "touch" and "control" with a less "efficient" tip/cue, where small changes in stroke speed will have less effect on CB speed.

Regards,
Dave

One pocket players like soft tips. Efren looked for a certain type of cue. Heavy, Long with a thin shaft. Most cue makers were not making cues like that at that time.

I've heard that lighter cues make drawing the ball easier but inhibit follow. Efren spins the cue ball and I think the answers lie in the spin.

Regular ferrules throw object balls differently than LD short ferrules.

There was a one pocket player in my room a very good player. A local cue maker made a cue for the guy and gave it to him.

He didn't like the LD short ferrule and had the guy put on a regular ferrule. With a regular ferrule its easier in my opinion to keep the cue ball on the rail.

 

[tenfttall]

I posted the following five years ago:

It Don't Mean A Thing If It Ain't Got That Ping . . . - 12-15-2013, 08:55 AM

doo-wop doo-wop doo-wop...

The main characteristic I look for in the way a cue hits is the sharp note, the <<<ping>>> noise made when striking the cue ball. I can play with other cues that don't have it just like I can drive a VW, but the pingers, to me, they make me feel like I'm driving a Ferrari.

I've made the analogy before that it's like if you were standing on a concrete sidewalk and had a length of 2 x 4 lumber in your hand and while holding it vertically just a foot off the ground, let it go and you'll hear the <<<ping>>>. Compare this to if you hold that same 2 x 4 horizontally, drop it and what do you get? A: an undesirable ///thwaaap\\\.

most cues are somewhere in the middle. I want the <<<ping>>>.

All of the Sugartrees I've ever hit except one, have this for sure. The majority of TS cues have it. About half of the Olneys I've hit with have this, as well. And nearly all of the Tascs and SWs do, too.

To me, a cue that possesses the sharp note ping is indicative of a stiff hitter with perfect feedback (my taste). One that feels like it moves whitey with great ease and every shot feels like you are hitting a laser-beam line drive off the sweet spot of a Louisville Slugger. Even feels sweet on soft finesse shots.

<snip>

best,
brian kc

--

Brian, I feel the same way! I just received an unchalked SugarTree yesterday and it had the best "ping" of any of the four others I own. I prefer SugarTrees over the hit of any other cues. Eric's cue make the game easier! The fact that they are gorgeous is a combination that can be hazardous to your wallet!

 

[dr_dave]

I am aware of the "feel" and "sound" of hits, but I think most of my "feedback" comes from watching the CB and subconsciously correlating the motion to my stroke (length and acceleration) and tip position.

Yet you can likely tell a miscue instantly, before getting any information from the cueball motion.

With a miscue, there is plenty of negative "feedback" from both the terrible "feel" and "look" of the shot.

There is definitely lots of telling "feedback" from the cue with "bad hits" like miscues, a jammed elevated shot, or a double hit; but as with a miscue, the visual "feedback" of what the CB does clearly indicates what happened with "bad hits" like these.

Regards,
Dave

 

[HawaiianEye]

What specific performance qualities are necessary for a cue to "play great", "hit great", "hit a ton", etc.?

Or do those terms just mean "I like it"?

pj
chgo

To me, a "good hit" is ANY cue that I feel "comfortable" with (weight, taper, balance, etc.) that I can control the cue ball with. Obviously, it has to hit "solid" and not have rattles, etc.

If I can't control the cue ball with it, it doesn't fit my bill as a good cue for "me".

 

[Patrick Johnson]

My cue's objective performance traits are most important to me, but I also think its subjective feedback helps me learn more quickly and accurately what kind of hit produces what kind of CB motion. I don't try to identify the specific benefits or their sources, just have the general notion that more info is better.

I am aware of the "feel" and "sound" of hits, but I think most of my "feedback" comes from watching the CB and subconsciously correlating the motion to my stroke (length and acceleration) and tip position.

Yes, same here. And I don't know specifically what or how I'm learning from the cue's feedback - I just think it must add something to the picture. Most importantly, I don't want that feedback to be too muffled.

I don't put any stock in one cue "moving" the CB better or worse than another - except maybe for a little more or less efficient energy transfer, which only allows a slightly different stroke speed.

pj
chgo