When Ronnie Allen re-invented 1 hole.
- Thread starter stolz2
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What's funny is that Jay, I think, produced and taped the match! Very enjoyable thread. Thanks for the input guys.
Martin
Martin
Gerry said:I think I have that match on DVD if you want a copy. Is it the one from the Golden "8" ball? and their playing on that super fast old Brunswick?.....Ronny was complaining about the place being a swamp and stuff right?
Let me know, Gerry
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Im tired of people saying all kinds of crap about Efren and then concluding with "Dont get me wrong he is a great, great player". Hey try that on your wife one day. She's a lousy cook, spends too much, and is bad at cleaning up the house but dont get me wrong she is a great, great woman". You would be out on your ass. What do you think we are morons. You have something against people admiring Efren the way they do.
I saw him play recently at the Derby. He played such a beautiful creative game. He shot shots that just amazed even the pro's. Gambling and tournament play. Stop trying to find something negative to say about the man. Unless you yourself are qualified.
Some say he doesnt have gamble. But the last time I saw some of the pro's that have been discussed in this thread, they were broke and had to bum a couple of hundred dollars to not piss their wife off when he made it back to the room or couldnt make a match unless they could swindle some backer. Efren is flush with cash and prestige. And he made it on his own talent and ability and smarts. People who say he doesnt have heart dont know about the first thing about making 2 plus 2 equals four. Its a business folks. Thats why the IPT is so popular. Money. Getting busted by a player after a long session is not a goal I would advise for anyone. The smartest thing any gambler can do is pull up when the odds dont favor him. Vegas does it all the time.
I saw him play recently at the Derby. He played such a beautiful creative game. He shot shots that just amazed even the pro's. Gambling and tournament play. Stop trying to find something negative to say about the man. Unless you yourself are qualified.
Some say he doesnt have gamble. But the last time I saw some of the pro's that have been discussed in this thread, they were broke and had to bum a couple of hundred dollars to not piss their wife off when he made it back to the room or couldnt make a match unless they could swindle some backer. Efren is flush with cash and prestige. And he made it on his own talent and ability and smarts. People who say he doesnt have heart dont know about the first thing about making 2 plus 2 equals four. Its a business folks. Thats why the IPT is so popular. Money. Getting busted by a player after a long session is not a goal I would advise for anyone. The smartest thing any gambler can do is pull up when the odds dont favor him. Vegas does it all the time.
As a card carrying member of the old farts club, I have to agree with Grady about RA. He was the best and a gambler, unlike many players then and today. Saw him, Richie and Denny ply their respective acts many times. Denny reminded me alot of Cole Dickson, just a little quiter. Smoothest stroke, didn't miss for money, and offered to play anyone, any time, although Cole sometimes overmatched himself. Great legends and some sad stories and endings. BTW anyone who saw Cliff's marathon sessions at DCC would have to go with Cliff, in the long run, against anyone period.
said:
Let me first say that i love this thread and we really have a high number of prestigious posters in here, it doesn't get any better in a forum in my opinion, this is one of the great advantages of forums.
second, in light of the above i deleted all my replies to cuetechasaurus, because i really felt like i was muddying up this nice thread, and it wasn't adding anything positive to the thread.
and lastly to yobagua. i consider myself a pool player. everyday i try my best to find a way to get better. it's hard.
with that said, in my opinion if you took 100 players with my attitude (or an attitude like mine) and had them play efren and 100 players with cutechasaurus' attitude (an efren is in another world attitude) to play efren, the results would be astonishing. even though both groups of 100 would possess the same ability, the players who praised efren's every move, every shot would just get demolished much more. im not making any claims here of superiority over anybody, im not a champion, but im trying my best. i know you could never perform the above experiment, but i really would love to do it one day so i could show people (throughout the world, not just in pool) how important the right attitude is.
you may think i try to downplay efrens game even more feeling the way i do. i don't, i try to be as reaistic as possible, i truly do my best. if im not realistic, i will have a higher chance to lose because i wouldnt know his weaknesses as well. he has weak points, we have discussed some of them, i dont see why i can't say after i discuss his weak points that he is the greatest all around player (that's what i think). i just happen to believe he's a LOT more beatable that the average joe pool player thinks. i wouldn't say this if i didn't know what i was talking about either. i've been around him a bunch, seen him practice with tang a lot (tang used to beat up on him some nights), get in the pit a lot, ive played him twice.
just like you believe what you believe, you came in here and posted it. that is all im doing (i wont speak for others), stating what i believe. again, not sure why stating some weakneses then saying but he's so great is such an inappropriate thing.
enzo said:
You are trying to be realistic but you're just being silly. Most pro players play their best games against Efren, period. They don't fold because of who he is. Shortstops, amatuers, sure they fold against him and get crushed by huge defecits, but the majority of the time, top level pool is played on both sides. Again, I think you have something against Efren and thus have that bias in mind when you post.
You are right about the match with Earl. Efren did play hard and well under pressure. However, I see that match as being different than a long gambling session or one where the stakes are low and a shortstop catches a gear on Efren. In the match with Earl it will PAY to have heart; he'll beat the best 9ball player in the world (maybe) and he'll make some serious cash. This is different than other low stakes gambling matches with players of a lower calibur as he may win in the long run while giving everyone a chance to see him get beat up by some A player in a zone for 1k--where is the monetary incentive for this? Some other poster on this thread mentioned that making money is the objective here, and Efren has done that. He knows when to go and when to stop. When he stops, I think it is not that he doesn't have heart, but the stakes are not high enough for him to want to tarnish his King Kong reputation. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with this; it is smart.
kollegedave
kollegedave
cuetechasaurus said:
My theory is Efren needs to be inspired to bring his most focused, creative game. Otherwise, he falls off a half a notch. He had to finally win that U.S. Open, but hasn't come all that close to doing it again. He took that Japan tourney that was the biggest prize up to that point, and then the KOH ... and the DCC 1-hole every time, also the biggest title of its kind right now, isn't it?
But grinding it out? Either week after week or in marathon gambling sessions? I think that must bore him at this point. What's so great about physically and mentally outlasting somebody? Pool can be played as an endurance contest, sure, but doesn't it get to be like some pointless "Survivor" challenge after awhile?
Do we rate baseball teams solely on how they do in 16-inning games? Or is it about sustaining excellence over a more reasonable period of time?
But grinding it out? Either week after week or in marathon gambling sessions? I think that must bore him at this point. What's so great about physically and mentally outlasting somebody? Pool can be played as an endurance contest, sure, but doesn't it get to be like some pointless "Survivor" challenge after awhile?
Do we rate baseball teams solely on how they do in 16-inning games? Or is it about sustaining excellence over a more reasonable period of time?
All credit to Efren
When Efren first came here, he had never even seen One Pocket. he got plastered a couple of times by Keith in LA in the 80's.
He went to Chicago and graduated from the Incardona-Beard school of One Pocket and emerged as the world's top player by the early to mid 90's.
Efren is and has been the best One Pocket player on Earth for many years now. I'm sorry, not even Cliff or anyone else plays his speed. Yes, at one time Ronnie was the best in the world, circa late 60's to early 80's. And prior to Ronnie it was someone else, maybe Clem or White Rags.
But the fact that Efren has been the best player for a long time at one of the most difficult disciplines in Pool speaks legends to me. I saw him play at Derby City this year and he was dominating. His creativity and execution were flawless, and he appears to be at the top of his game in One Pocket.
On more than one occasion, he found a shot that no one else even saw, including the commentators. That is the wonder of this man we call Efren, absolutely one of the greatest to ever hold a cue. In my humble opinion, there has never been anyone better at controlling the Cue Ball, which is the essence of good pool. Of course, I didn't see Greenleaf or White Rags or Clem Metz play.
The only other players that come to mind for Efren's quality of Cue Ball control were Worst, Lassiter and Mosconi. Lassiter would shake his head in disgust when he got 2" out of line. Mosconi would mutter obscenities under hsi breath, if he was forced to make a hard shot due to faulty position. Harold Worst meanwhile just got up there and made the next shot and got right back in line. He was one cool dude.
If I could see my all time favorite match up it would be Efren vs. Worst and second would be Efren vs. Ronnie, circa 1970. Is Efren the greatest player of all time, I don't know. He is not nearly so dominant at 9-Ball, although if the game were Ten Ball, I like him over just about anyone. And if they play rotation, forget about it.
Earl is the greatest tournament 9-Ball player I've seen, bar none. Parica the best gambler at 9-Ball with Buddy, Richie, Keith and Denny right there. In 9-Ball, Efren is in a pack that includes Buddy, Nick, Jose and Sigel. They all beat him with regularity on tour, and sometimes Efren beat them. it was a toss-up when they played. Earl claims Efren is the best player he has faced, and for good reason.
Remember for many years, even the filipinos considered Parica to be the best player. And head to head Jose has gotten the measure of Efren many times. Like fine wine, Efren seemed to improve with age. Jose meanwhile, has had his share of ups and downs. Efren is definitely one amazing pool player and a delight to watch. He belongs where he is, in the HOF.
One of the greatest, Definitely! The greatest ever, I don't know. When you heard all the Greenleaf stories and the way he was revered by the old time great players, you give pause to anyone else claiming his crown. But it's like comparing Babe Ruth with Barry Bonds or Hank Aaron, different era, different game.
Of all the players playing this modern era, post 1960 and The Hustler, Efren will most likely be remembered and talked about like Greenleaf was from the 40's to the 70's. All we ever heard when we were kids was how great Greenleaf was and I for one believe it. I'm sure Freddie and Grady will concur on that one. Even Mosconi, Caras, Crane et all gave the accolades to
Greenleaf.
Lassiter, Worst and Philadelphia (White) Rags came after in the 40's, 50's and 60's. But the old timers who saw both eras still thought Greenleaf could have handled these guys. Maybe that has happened to me to a certain degree. I saw the heart of Richie Florence and the brilliance of Ronnie and it is hard for me to shake it and say someone is better than them.
Let's just say they are all great players, in a different era and time. I like the comment Ronnie made to Billy, when he said Efren might have won, but been too exhausted to spend the money. That was very generous of him. Before Richie had his stroke in the early 90's he was getting his game back in gear and beginning to beat everyone again. He was in his mid 40's. He confided in me he wanted to take a crack at Parica who had beaten just about everybody gambling. That was Richie.
I love Efren. Beside being a great poolplayer, he is a helluva good man.
I'm glad I got to see him play.
When Efren first came here, he had never even seen One Pocket. he got plastered a couple of times by Keith in LA in the 80's.
He went to Chicago and graduated from the Incardona-Beard school of One Pocket and emerged as the world's top player by the early to mid 90's.
Efren is and has been the best One Pocket player on Earth for many years now. I'm sorry, not even Cliff or anyone else plays his speed. Yes, at one time Ronnie was the best in the world, circa late 60's to early 80's. And prior to Ronnie it was someone else, maybe Clem or White Rags.
But the fact that Efren has been the best player for a long time at one of the most difficult disciplines in Pool speaks legends to me. I saw him play at Derby City this year and he was dominating. His creativity and execution were flawless, and he appears to be at the top of his game in One Pocket.
On more than one occasion, he found a shot that no one else even saw, including the commentators. That is the wonder of this man we call Efren, absolutely one of the greatest to ever hold a cue. In my humble opinion, there has never been anyone better at controlling the Cue Ball, which is the essence of good pool. Of course, I didn't see Greenleaf or White Rags or Clem Metz play.
The only other players that come to mind for Efren's quality of Cue Ball control were Worst, Lassiter and Mosconi. Lassiter would shake his head in disgust when he got 2" out of line. Mosconi would mutter obscenities under hsi breath, if he was forced to make a hard shot due to faulty position. Harold Worst meanwhile just got up there and made the next shot and got right back in line. He was one cool dude.
If I could see my all time favorite match up it would be Efren vs. Worst and second would be Efren vs. Ronnie, circa 1970. Is Efren the greatest player of all time, I don't know. He is not nearly so dominant at 9-Ball, although if the game were Ten Ball, I like him over just about anyone. And if they play rotation, forget about it.
Earl is the greatest tournament 9-Ball player I've seen, bar none. Parica the best gambler at 9-Ball with Buddy, Richie, Keith and Denny right there. In 9-Ball, Efren is in a pack that includes Buddy, Nick, Jose and Sigel. They all beat him with regularity on tour, and sometimes Efren beat them. it was a toss-up when they played. Earl claims Efren is the best player he has faced, and for good reason.
Remember for many years, even the filipinos considered Parica to be the best player. And head to head Jose has gotten the measure of Efren many times. Like fine wine, Efren seemed to improve with age. Jose meanwhile, has had his share of ups and downs. Efren is definitely one amazing pool player and a delight to watch. He belongs where he is, in the HOF.
One of the greatest, Definitely! The greatest ever, I don't know. When you heard all the Greenleaf stories and the way he was revered by the old time great players, you give pause to anyone else claiming his crown. But it's like comparing Babe Ruth with Barry Bonds or Hank Aaron, different era, different game.
Of all the players playing this modern era, post 1960 and The Hustler, Efren will most likely be remembered and talked about like Greenleaf was from the 40's to the 70's. All we ever heard when we were kids was how great Greenleaf was and I for one believe it. I'm sure Freddie and Grady will concur on that one. Even Mosconi, Caras, Crane et all gave the accolades to
Greenleaf.
Lassiter, Worst and Philadelphia (White) Rags came after in the 40's, 50's and 60's. But the old timers who saw both eras still thought Greenleaf could have handled these guys. Maybe that has happened to me to a certain degree. I saw the heart of Richie Florence and the brilliance of Ronnie and it is hard for me to shake it and say someone is better than them.
Let's just say they are all great players, in a different era and time. I like the comment Ronnie made to Billy, when he said Efren might have won, but been too exhausted to spend the money. That was very generous of him. Before Richie had his stroke in the early 90's he was getting his game back in gear and beginning to beat everyone again. He was in his mid 40's. He confided in me he wanted to take a crack at Parica who had beaten just about everybody gambling. That was Richie.
I love Efren. Beside being a great poolplayer, he is a helluva good man.
I'm glad I got to see him play.
Jay, that was a terrific post and one of the best I've ever seen on this forum. Thanks for the time and effort.
I remember you being around the Sports Arena iin Anaheim in the mid 80's when the Filipino's first arrived there via Houston. There were about four or five of them, I believe. I clearly recall seeing Efren and Rudolfo Luat but don't remember who the others were. I thought you might recollect the names of the ones I'm missing.
I remember you being around the Sports Arena iin Anaheim in the mid 80's when the Filipino's first arrived there via Houston. There were about four or five of them, I believe. I clearly recall seeing Efren and Rudolfo Luat but don't remember who the others were. I thought you might recollect the names of the ones I'm missing.
Thanks for this great thread!
I want to thank the contributors for this great thread! I sat here this morning, listening to classic rock & roll on Internet radio, and reading every post in this thread. I loved the posts by Grady, Freddie and Jay as they documented the great play of the old timers. Reading the debates about who might be the greatest one-pocket player ever, I had a thought I've had many, many times regarding such questions: It's fun to debate the topic, but there can never be a single, simple answer to the question because we aren't talking about a single, simple game.
Everyone knows there's a difference between tournament pool and money pool. But it goes beyond this simple dichotomy. "Money pool" covers a lot of territory from short-session, low-stakes games to high-stakes "games to the death" as mentioned by Freddie and Grady. Forty-five years ago, when I was becoming a pool-nut in Dallas, there was a player known as Waco Pete who may have been the best $2 nine-ball player in the world. For $2 a game, he got out from everywhere/anywhere, but for $10 a game he couldn't run 4 balls.
So who's the "best" player? Maybe you have to say who is the best low-stakes, short-session player and who is the best "play til you're busted" player and who is the best tournament player, etc., etc.
My $0.02 on the best one-pocket I have seen in 45 years of sweatin' the game (and no, I never saw Ronnie play in his prime) is that I never saw the game played better than when I watched Efren play Alex and Jason Miller in the semi-finals and finals of the last DCC one-pocket tournament.
Again, thanks for all the great posts in this thread! It's made for a very enjoyable morning!
I want to thank the contributors for this great thread! I sat here this morning, listening to classic rock & roll on Internet radio, and reading every post in this thread. I loved the posts by Grady, Freddie and Jay as they documented the great play of the old timers. Reading the debates about who might be the greatest one-pocket player ever, I had a thought I've had many, many times regarding such questions: It's fun to debate the topic, but there can never be a single, simple answer to the question because we aren't talking about a single, simple game.
Everyone knows there's a difference between tournament pool and money pool. But it goes beyond this simple dichotomy. "Money pool" covers a lot of territory from short-session, low-stakes games to high-stakes "games to the death" as mentioned by Freddie and Grady. Forty-five years ago, when I was becoming a pool-nut in Dallas, there was a player known as Waco Pete who may have been the best $2 nine-ball player in the world. For $2 a game, he got out from everywhere/anywhere, but for $10 a game he couldn't run 4 balls.
So who's the "best" player? Maybe you have to say who is the best low-stakes, short-session player and who is the best "play til you're busted" player and who is the best tournament player, etc., etc.
My $0.02 on the best one-pocket I have seen in 45 years of sweatin' the game (and no, I never saw Ronnie play in his prime) is that I never saw the game played better than when I watched Efren play Alex and Jason Miller in the semi-finals and finals of the last DCC one-pocket tournament.
Again, thanks for all the great posts in this thread! It's made for a very enjoyable morning!
I couldnt bet against Artie
Jay, that was an outstanding post! Very, very good. It was filled with real feeling and humanity. Right on!
Being from Chicago, I naturally lean towards our guys, Bugs and Artie. Grady talks about a long session, Cliff vs Efren, I wouldnt bet against Artie in a prolonged session against anybody. Grady should know about that. He and Artie played for 72 hrs. Artie never sat down for the full 72. I say again, Efren is the greatest I ever saw, but I also never saw anybody beat Artie. He lost a few matches, but nobody ever finished him off. My mind tells me nobody can stand up to Effie, but my heart thinks maybe my guys could. In a short session, race to 3 for all the cheese I couldnt bet against Bugs (or Ronnie or Cornbread for that matter). For example, Artie would never play Bugs 2 out of 3 for all of it. When Bugs and Efren played for the 30k Bugs won the first six in a row. Unfortunately he missed a ball in the seventh game and Efren won the next eleven to win the set. Nobody came out of the box better than Bugs (except maybe Ronnie or Cornbread). That said, if I really delved way down into the dark recesses of my sick brain, there is another part of me that thinks no human, Ronnie, Artie, Effie, Bugs, could have handled Harold Worst. So if I have made this post confusing, imagine how I feel. I think that all four guys are each the greatest 1pkt player of all-time.
the Beard
confuse on, brother!
(and please dont get me started about Hayden Lingo and Rags Fitzpatrick or Big Nose Roberts)
Jay, that was an outstanding post! Very, very good. It was filled with real feeling and humanity. Right on!
Being from Chicago, I naturally lean towards our guys, Bugs and Artie. Grady talks about a long session, Cliff vs Efren, I wouldnt bet against Artie in a prolonged session against anybody. Grady should know about that. He and Artie played for 72 hrs. Artie never sat down for the full 72. I say again, Efren is the greatest I ever saw, but I also never saw anybody beat Artie. He lost a few matches, but nobody ever finished him off. My mind tells me nobody can stand up to Effie, but my heart thinks maybe my guys could. In a short session, race to 3 for all the cheese I couldnt bet against Bugs (or Ronnie or Cornbread for that matter). For example, Artie would never play Bugs 2 out of 3 for all of it. When Bugs and Efren played for the 30k Bugs won the first six in a row. Unfortunately he missed a ball in the seventh game and Efren won the next eleven to win the set. Nobody came out of the box better than Bugs (except maybe Ronnie or Cornbread). That said, if I really delved way down into the dark recesses of my sick brain, there is another part of me that thinks no human, Ronnie, Artie, Effie, Bugs, could have handled Harold Worst. So if I have made this post confusing, imagine how I feel. I think that all four guys are each the greatest 1pkt player of all-time.
the Beard
confuse on, brother!
(and please dont get me started about Hayden Lingo and Rags Fitzpatrick or Big Nose Roberts)
72 hrs and never even sat down?
Is three days straight something that you have seen alot of Freddy? I cannot imagine playing three days straight and what the recovery for a session like would be like. Hell I was just wrecked the other day from playing just 8.5 hrs straight.
Is three days straight something that you have seen alot of Freddy? I cannot imagine playing three days straight and what the recovery for a session like would be like. Hell I was just wrecked the other day from playing just 8.5 hrs straight.
24 hr matches were the norm
It was pretty common for 24hrs and 48hr sessions. Greg Stevens played for 4days straight once a week (he slept the other 3) for a couple of years. I watched Jimmy Reid bust Richie Florence in a 72 hr 9ball session in Detroit. When the session was over he made his wife Barbara (who stayed up on the sweat the whole time) go to the store for groceries and made her cook breakfast. The recovery was usually one full day in bed. Of course jelly beans (pills) were involved. The only stay up guy that didnt use pills was Artie -- he only drank black coffee. You will have to read my next book to learn about the all-time great stay up man, Milborn "Gar" Frazier. He once stayed up 21 days, and a few years later he did 14 days. Seven days playing poker or pool was routine for Gar. I once waited until he had been playing pinnocle for 3 days before I got in the game. I thought that that was enough of a spot for me. I was wrong. 72 hrs later I was ga ga and Gar was still rocking. My mind wouldnt work properly and Gar broke me. Grady, and Old-Has-Been, among others, remember Gar well.
the Beard
Play on, brother!
uwate said:72 hrs and never even sat down?
Is three days straight something that you have seen alot of Freddy? I cannot imagine playing three days straight and what the recovery for a session like would be like. Hell I was just wrecked the other day from playing just 8.5 hrs straight.
It was pretty common for 24hrs and 48hr sessions. Greg Stevens played for 4days straight once a week (he slept the other 3) for a couple of years. I watched Jimmy Reid bust Richie Florence in a 72 hr 9ball session in Detroit. When the session was over he made his wife Barbara (who stayed up on the sweat the whole time) go to the store for groceries and made her cook breakfast. The recovery was usually one full day in bed. Of course jelly beans (pills) were involved. The only stay up guy that didnt use pills was Artie -- he only drank black coffee. You will have to read my next book to learn about the all-time great stay up man, Milborn "Gar" Frazier. He once stayed up 21 days, and a few years later he did 14 days. Seven days playing poker or pool was routine for Gar. I once waited until he had been playing pinnocle for 3 days before I got in the game. I thought that that was enough of a spot for me. I was wrong. 72 hrs later I was ga ga and Gar was still rocking. My mind wouldnt work properly and Gar broke me. Grady, and Old-Has-Been, among others, remember Gar well.
the Beard
Play on, brother!
Great post Jay. Because it comes from a person with real personal experience. It comes from professional involvement and surviving through the conflicts and contradictions that erupt in a competitive world. Those who say "Im just saying what I think, or believe", are talking from their lack of experience so it is easy to say- I think it therefore it must be true. Not knowing what people from the top tier really think.
Do they think that when pro's face an Efren they have fear. Not an Archer or a Pagulayan or a Schmidt. They are thinking every time- If I can keep him in his seat I can win because I can get out. It is only the amateur who loses confidence in his own abilities. It is the difference between guys like you, a professional, and amateurs who make asinine comments about players weakness.
Like the Babe Ruth mentioned. Yeah he was overweight. Yeah he drank a lot. He was slow on the paths. But looking back it does not amount to much compared to what he did for baseball and his stature in it.
I will go back and reread your post from time to time. It sums up a player who comes close to perfection as one can get in the game.
Do they think that when pro's face an Efren they have fear. Not an Archer or a Pagulayan or a Schmidt. They are thinking every time- If I can keep him in his seat I can win because I can get out. It is only the amateur who loses confidence in his own abilities. It is the difference between guys like you, a professional, and amateurs who make asinine comments about players weakness.
Like the Babe Ruth mentioned. Yeah he was overweight. Yeah he drank a lot. He was slow on the paths. But looking back it does not amount to much compared to what he did for baseball and his stature in it.
I will go back and reread your post from time to time. It sums up a player who comes close to perfection as one can get in the game.
I'm suprised no one has brought up the Mike Lebron/Efren factor.
If you locked up a few of the top players with in a room and sent in Efren by himself he'd get carved up like a Thanksgiving turkey.
Send him in with Lebron and he'd get the cash.
It's such a big difference it isn't even funny.
The thing that sticks out in my mind with Efren is you never see him re-dog-it...............meaning.........everyone, including him, dogs it here and there but when he does it and someone dogs it back......that's it for them. All the best players of whatever era had this going for them, if you gave them a chance back when they screwed up, they'd make you pay for it.
It's gotten to a funny point now with Efren gambling wise......you'll never, ever, ever, make a score off of him cause he's got so many people every where he goes that want to blow money just to say they played him.
He's in the GREATEST spot a pool player could ever want..........never ever have to bet a dime of your own (people fight to have Lebron let you stake him) and have people falling hand over foot to lose something to you.
Man it's nice to be Efren.
If you locked up a few of the top players with in a room and sent in Efren by himself he'd get carved up like a Thanksgiving turkey.
Send him in with Lebron and he'd get the cash.
It's such a big difference it isn't even funny.
The thing that sticks out in my mind with Efren is you never see him re-dog-it...............meaning.........everyone, including him, dogs it here and there but when he does it and someone dogs it back......that's it for them. All the best players of whatever era had this going for them, if you gave them a chance back when they screwed up, they'd make you pay for it.
It's gotten to a funny point now with Efren gambling wise......you'll never, ever, ever, make a score off of him cause he's got so many people every where he goes that want to blow money just to say they played him.
He's in the GREATEST spot a pool player could ever want..........never ever have to bet a dime of your own (people fight to have Lebron let you stake him) and have people falling hand over foot to lose something to you.
Man it's nice to be Efren.
You tell em Yo
I had the pleasure of watching Efren up in Reno at the Sands tournament on several different occasions. He was one of the only players that would stay up all night gambling, pool and the casino, and then play in the tournament and winning it. Earl Strickland, the player that everyone wants to gush about would never come down to the tournament room unless he was playing a tournament match.
Efren has got an unbelievable amount of talent, stamina and great sportsmanship at the table. According to Grady, Ronnie is good for a ball in sharking. Can you even imagine Efren sharking anyone? This man has more talent and class than any of the home-grown players that I know or ever heard of.
I will say this, I saw Bucktooth and Grady playing 1h up in Reno one year and Tooth was getting some crazy spot that I can't remember exactly, something like he had to make three and Grady had to make 6 or something like that. Bucktooth was talking so much shit that it was disgusting and Grady was ever the gentleman. Bucktooth wound up winning and Grady never got out of line which I thought was pretty impressive.
I had the pleasure of watching Efren up in Reno at the Sands tournament on several different occasions. He was one of the only players that would stay up all night gambling, pool and the casino, and then play in the tournament and winning it. Earl Strickland, the player that everyone wants to gush about would never come down to the tournament room unless he was playing a tournament match.
Efren has got an unbelievable amount of talent, stamina and great sportsmanship at the table. According to Grady, Ronnie is good for a ball in sharking. Can you even imagine Efren sharking anyone? This man has more talent and class than any of the home-grown players that I know or ever heard of.
I will say this, I saw Bucktooth and Grady playing 1h up in Reno one year and Tooth was getting some crazy spot that I can't remember exactly, something like he had to make three and Grady had to make 6 or something like that. Bucktooth was talking so much shit that it was disgusting and Grady was ever the gentleman. Bucktooth wound up winning and Grady never got out of line which I thought was pretty impressive.
yobagua said:
Man, its nice to be Efren
Youve got to admit though that Efren worked hard to get to that status. I dont know if you have the experience of being a foreign alien in another country. Its real tough. It is imperative that you have someone to watch your back at all times. I know personally that Efren got cheated from not only Americans but his own people when he first arrived. A Mike Lebron presented a good ally and friend and Mike a former US Open champ could see that his own game was going down and that here was someone that could take the place of a champ. Mike I believe could also understand the plight of the immigrant. So this union has proved to be productive. Im glad Efren and Mike found each other. Otherwise I wouldnt have had the experience to watch Efren in numerous action games.
Youve got to admit though that Efren worked hard to get to that status. I dont know if you have the experience of being a foreign alien in another country. Its real tough. It is imperative that you have someone to watch your back at all times. I know personally that Efren got cheated from not only Americans but his own people when he first arrived. A Mike Lebron presented a good ally and friend and Mike a former US Open champ could see that his own game was going down and that here was someone that could take the place of a champ. Mike I believe could also understand the plight of the immigrant. So this union has proved to be productive. Im glad Efren and Mike found each other. Otherwise I wouldnt have had the experience to watch Efren in numerous action games.
Thanks Freddie
the Beard
Appreciate the kind words. Like you I enjoy rehashing the old days and remembering the great players we were privileged to see. My apologies for leaving Bugs out of my evaluation of the best One Pocket players of all time. He and Eddie Taylor are certainly two more of the all time greats, and without doubt the two best Bank Pool players I ever saw. I heard J.C. (Cannonball) was in their league and in fact played all games jam up, but I never saw him play much in his prime.
And yes, Jimmy Reid was a 9-Ball monster for the cash. I traveled with Jimmy and Barbara up and down the West Coast and he blasted everyone in sight and played Cole to a dead heat. I'll never forget walking into a poolroom with Jimmy (then about 22) and seeing NY Blackie. I told Jimmy to play anyone in here but him and went to the restroom. When I came out five minutes later Jimmy was already down with Blackie, playing a Race To Eleven for two bills. I wanted to kill him.
Blackie kept looking around, saying "Who is this kid?" And Jimmy shot him to smithereens too, winning two sets in less than two hours. That's when i really knew how good Jimmy was. The only guy who beat Jimmy when we were together was Bob Osborne (Black Bart). Of the road men I saw come thru California, Bob and Jimmy Marino were probably the best. Oh, and Billy Johnson (aka Wade Crane) made one brief trip thru on his way to Oregon to try to play "Airplane" Rosey.
Yeah, many old time gamblers (like Earl Shriver, Fats and Junior Goff) said Hayden Lingo was the best player next to Greenleaf and basically invented One Pocket. And everyone who saw him raved about Rags Fitzpatrick. They said he beat everyone for the cash in the 40's and 50's. Only guy he couldn't beat was Lassiter at 9-Ball and they just left each other alone.
We were lucky, getting to see Harold Worst play, because he died so young (37). He was unique, a gentleman, a player, a businessman and just a fine all around guy. He was not the kind to go looking for anyone and try to match up games. But if someone asked him to play, he was always ready.
Of course, after a while, he was just left out of the equation when players were trying to make games. No one even wanted to try to match up with him. They steered a wide path around Harold. And that includes ALL the top players of the 60's. I can't think of anyone else (except maybe Lassiter) that all the top roadmen like Cornbread, Puckett, Shorty, Ervolino and Jersey Red truly respected.
What I remember about him was that he was a solidly built man, maybe 5'10" or 5'11" and probably 200 pounds. He shook my hand once and I noticed his large thick fingers. He was genuinely a nice person, who had zero ego problems. If someone came into the poolroom (like Ed Kelly) and declared themself the best player in the world, it didn't bother Harold. He might have Beenie quietly ask him if he wanted to play for some sizeable amount. When they found out Harold Worst wanted to play them, most players would quickly disappear or make up some lame excuse.
I think this oral history is important Freddie. And your writings have added to the lore that is Pool history. For us, it was just another game or another tournament back then. But we were witnesses to the exploits of many great players, who in my estimation, were the equal of the the top players today.
the Beard
Appreciate the kind words. Like you I enjoy rehashing the old days and remembering the great players we were privileged to see. My apologies for leaving Bugs out of my evaluation of the best One Pocket players of all time. He and Eddie Taylor are certainly two more of the all time greats, and without doubt the two best Bank Pool players I ever saw. I heard J.C. (Cannonball) was in their league and in fact played all games jam up, but I never saw him play much in his prime.
And yes, Jimmy Reid was a 9-Ball monster for the cash. I traveled with Jimmy and Barbara up and down the West Coast and he blasted everyone in sight and played Cole to a dead heat. I'll never forget walking into a poolroom with Jimmy (then about 22) and seeing NY Blackie. I told Jimmy to play anyone in here but him and went to the restroom. When I came out five minutes later Jimmy was already down with Blackie, playing a Race To Eleven for two bills. I wanted to kill him.
Blackie kept looking around, saying "Who is this kid?" And Jimmy shot him to smithereens too, winning two sets in less than two hours. That's when i really knew how good Jimmy was. The only guy who beat Jimmy when we were together was Bob Osborne (Black Bart). Of the road men I saw come thru California, Bob and Jimmy Marino were probably the best. Oh, and Billy Johnson (aka Wade Crane) made one brief trip thru on his way to Oregon to try to play "Airplane" Rosey.
Yeah, many old time gamblers (like Earl Shriver, Fats and Junior Goff) said Hayden Lingo was the best player next to Greenleaf and basically invented One Pocket. And everyone who saw him raved about Rags Fitzpatrick. They said he beat everyone for the cash in the 40's and 50's. Only guy he couldn't beat was Lassiter at 9-Ball and they just left each other alone.
We were lucky, getting to see Harold Worst play, because he died so young (37). He was unique, a gentleman, a player, a businessman and just a fine all around guy. He was not the kind to go looking for anyone and try to match up games. But if someone asked him to play, he was always ready.
Of course, after a while, he was just left out of the equation when players were trying to make games. No one even wanted to try to match up with him. They steered a wide path around Harold. And that includes ALL the top players of the 60's. I can't think of anyone else (except maybe Lassiter) that all the top roadmen like Cornbread, Puckett, Shorty, Ervolino and Jersey Red truly respected.
What I remember about him was that he was a solidly built man, maybe 5'10" or 5'11" and probably 200 pounds. He shook my hand once and I noticed his large thick fingers. He was genuinely a nice person, who had zero ego problems. If someone came into the poolroom (like Ed Kelly) and declared themself the best player in the world, it didn't bother Harold. He might have Beenie quietly ask him if he wanted to play for some sizeable amount. When they found out Harold Worst wanted to play them, most players would quickly disappear or make up some lame excuse.
I think this oral history is important Freddie. And your writings have added to the lore that is Pool history. For us, it was just another game or another tournament back then. But we were witnesses to the exploits of many great players, who in my estimation, were the equal of the the top players today.