Where are production cues made ?

[JB Cases]

I am tired of hearing how the "quality" of import cues sucks.
Let's not bundle in ALL imports.
Just the ones made in China
Is there a pro who shoots with a Chinese-made cue without getting paid?

Yes in fact there is one that I know of. Since he chooses to play with the cue, a Fury cue, I respect his privacy as I would any other Fury customer.

However if you look check out the pictures of him playing and winning several tournaments last year then you will clearly see the cue he is using.

I will let you do the research if it's that important to you.

Of course if you are willing to bet that the loser leaves the forum forever then I will be more than happy to point you to the public pictures of the famous professional player and his Fury cue.

Oh, and I think Mark Tadd was playing with a Cuetec without being paid. Remember?

That's like a double whammy, a Chinese cue and a graphite one at that.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Yes in fact there is one that I know of. Since he chooses to play with the cue, a Fury cue, I respect his privacy as I would any other Fury customer.

However if you look check out the pictures of him playing and winning several tournaments last year then you will clearly see the cue he is using.

I will let you do the research if it's that important to you.

Of course if you are willing to bet that the loser leaves the forum forever then I will be more than happy to point you to the public pictures of the famous professional player and his Fury cue.

Oh, and I think Mark Tadd was playing with a Cuetec without being paid. Remember?

That's like a double whammy, a Chinese cue and a graphite one at that.

Wow, sorry to ask.

 

[JB Cases]

I am tired of hearing how the "quality" of import cues sucks.
Let's not bundle in ALL imports.
Just the ones made in China
Is there a pro who shoots with a Chinese-made cue without getting paid?

There are also millions of people who shoot with Chinese made pool cues and that enables many pros to get paid.

But let's see, you are a cuemaker so you should be able to do more than snipe.

Tell us what makes a good cue? Lets reduce this down to Fury vs. other brands. What makes the Fury cue inferior?

Fury cues are produced in China. I represent Fury cues. So go ahead and tell me what is wrong with Fury cues.

During the last four years we have sold tens of thousands of Fury cues worldwide. During that time the percentage of returns is miniscule. And the cues now being made are even better than they were four years ago.

So go ahead and tell me what is wrong with Fury cues in comparison to any other brand.

Surely Joey you, an accomplished cuemaker, can articulate what makes a good cue and can tell all of the consumers here WHY a Fury cue is no good?

If you can come up with a list of what makes a good cue then I will be more than happy to bandsaw a Fury cue in half - ANY CUE off the rack - at the Super Billiards Expo in Valley Forge PA any time between the 13th and 16th of March, and to go over your list point for point to show the world whether the Fury cue matches the points on your list or whether it doesn't.

I will do this in public and allow whoever you designate to videotape the whole thing and we will put it up on youtube.

Do you think you can come up with something other than "made in China"?

I think an intelligent, accomplished cuemaker such as yourself is capable of making a good comprehensive list of things that are needed to make a good cue.

Are you up to the Fury Challenge?

 

[Jaden]

Wrong....

And we are off......

It is not government's job to do anything about jobs. Are people losing jobs over the expensive foreign goods that are entering the country as well?

What would the world look like if each country was entirely self sufficient with zero trade? I can tell you that it wouldn't be pretty.

What do you think when the "government of Arizona" uses Arizona taxpayer's money to lure companies away from California and hardworking Californians lose their jobs?

Do you think that foreign buyers should stop purchasing American made cues?

I love it how everyone thinks that they have it all figured out.

Guess what, you don't. The larger picture is that we all live on a globe. It's not about the USA only. IF you believe at ALL in the Declaration of Independence and the United States Constitution then you believe in your heart that ALL MEN are created as equals and that ALL people have the same rights.

If you believe that premise then you understand that FREE TRADE is the only acceptable economic way to interact with all other nations on planet Earth.

it is not Chinese companies that are pushing Chinese products into the USA. It is your fellow citizens who own the companies that do the importing and who own the brands that are for sale in every store in the USA. It is the stockholders who rightfully expect a return on their investment. And it's the consumer who is looking to buy more on what they have to spend, and looking to buy more on their available credit.

If we stick to pool then I can't think of one single cuemaker that has closed their doors or laid off people due to import cues coming in. If you know for a fact that any American has lost their job in the billiard industry due to the influx of import cues then please post that. And then tell us the history of the American cue companies so that we can see what percentage of Americans are truly affected by this.

What I think is that the influx of lower priced goods has made pool more affordable for a larger section of the population and thus has created more jobs to service that larger customer base. Leagues have encouraged people to play more pool and lower priced cues have provided a easy entry into cue ownership.

I can think of at least 100 American jobs that would not exist if it weren't for imported pool products outside of pool tables. Can you name 100 jobs that were lost due to imported pool products other than pool tables? I left out pool tables because I don't know enough about that sector of the industry to comment accurately.

Anyway it's not so cut and dried as to simply equate foreign goods with lost jobs.

The world economy is not that easy.

(and yes I understand that China subsidizes certain industries to make the prices lower - so does the US Goverment and neither is right to do so.)

It IS the gov's responsibility to protect American businesses and when countries overseas start to use labor that is bordering on slave labor in order to sell at lower than US market value, then it is the gov's responsible to raise import tariffs in order to protect US businesses. There have thousands of businesses that have had to close their doors or allow themselves to be bought out by multinational corporations that import goods because of cheao imports. It might not have a direct impact on most of the billiards industry, but in general it has destroyed the American way of life.

The main reason that the gov hasn't done it's job is that these same mutlinational corporations have padded their pockets and helped fund their cmapaigns in order for them to stay in office and that is the only reason.

I know it is your business to promote the importation of goods into the US but that doesn't mean that upstanding us citizens who have known the little guys that were forced out of business by a corrupt gov have to be happy about it.

Jaden

 

[JoeyInCali]

If you can come up with a list of what makes a good cue
That's laughable.
You know that would be a subjective list.
Kinda like give me a list of a good golf club. Then we'd argue each entry on the list.
And if I pointed out what is wrong with your assembly/construction/materials, I would be giving away what were passed on me.

 

[NINEBALLART]

Schmelke....Wisconsin

 

[Fast Lenny]

There are also millions of people who shoot with Chinese made pool cues and that enables many pros to get paid.

But let's see, you are a cuemaker so you should be able to do more than snipe.

Tell us what makes a good cue? Lets reduce this down to Fury vs. other brands. What makes the Fury cue inferior?

Fury cues are produced in China. I represent Fury cues. So go ahead and tell me what is wrong with Fury cues.

During the last four years we have sold tens of thousands of Fury cues worldwide. During that time the percentage of returns is miniscule. And the cues now being made are even better than they were four years ago.

So go ahead and tell me what is wrong with Fury cues in comparison to any other brand.

Surely Joey you, an accomplished cuemaker, can articulate what makes a good cue and can tell all of the consumers here WHY a Fury cue is no good?

If you can come up with a list of what makes a good cue then I will be more than happy to bandsaw a Fury cue in half - ANY CUE off the rack - at the Super Billiards Expo in Valley Forge PA any time between the 13th and 16th of March, and to go over your list point for point to show the world whether the Fury cue matches the points on your list or whether it doesn't.

I will do this in public and allow whoever you designate to videotape the whole thing and we will put it up on youtube.

Do you think you can come up with something other than "made in China"?

I think an intelligent, accomplished cuemaker such as yourself is capable of making a good comprehensive list of things that are needed to make a good cue.

Are you up to the Fury Challenge?

I guess i should have went to you for a deal on a Fury j/b,i got one on the way and have owned 2 others in the past and they are great and break/jump just as well as some cues i have broken with that cost 2 times as much.I also shoot with a Stealth cue at the moment and really like it,im pretty positive its made in China im assuming but its crafted well and plays as well as many customs i have owned.I have owned cues that have been over a thousand dollars and can say alot of things people rave about it very psychological.If i put my cue in your hand and it had a TS on the butt or Tascarella written on the forearm you would say the cue hits sweet but when you know its a low end cue based on the name you automatically think its junk.

 

[JB Cases]

If you can come up with a list of what makes a good cue
That's laughable.
You know that would be a subjective list.
Kinda like give me a list of a good golf club. Then we'd argue each entry on the list.
And if I pointed out what is wrong with your assembly/construction/materials, I would be giving away what were passed on me.

Well then that is a mighty convenient answer.

Apparently you know more than the cuemakers at Kao Kao and Taican. You know more than the American cuemakers who have consulted with the factories here and taught them what they know.

One of those cuemakers is Bill Stroud. Do you make better cues than JossWest cues?

So let me get this straight? You can't tell me what makes a good cue but you can tell for sure that all Chinese ones are bad? Ok. And you can't tell me what is wrong with my cues or you will be strung up by the secret cuemaker school?

Well anyway, my offer stands for anyone else who wants to see for themselves what the quality of our cues is.

We will be on display at the SBE in the Sterling Pavillion. IF ANYONE can bring a list of the things that make a quality cue then I will be willing to bandsaw any production cue we have on display and show everyone exactly how it is made.

I bet that we qualify on just about every point on anyone's list. This is why the ACA won't make a list because they know full well that today's Chinese cues are as well made in just about every category.

Now, am I saying that all Chinese cues are better than all American cues?

Of course not. Production varies all over the world.

I would expect that America with a longer history of cuemaking, easier access to materials, and a generally higher level of technical prowess would on average produce better cues. The point of this WHOLE discussion is that the quality of the Chinese ones is very close NOW. In fact when comparing SOME US cuemaker's current products against SOME Chinese current products then it is undeniable that the Chinese product is better. - and like you Joey, I am bound by a secret oath not to reveal the details of that but I assure you it's true.

Can I at least ask you Joey how much you actually know about all the variations of cues that we produce? Have you ever been to a cue factory? Either in the USA or in China? I know that you are a cuemaker but have you ever seen a real factory? How many cues have you disassembled to know that ALL Chinese cues are not good?

Well anyway, we have some things on the horizon that will surely make it harder for you to make blanket statements without backing them up.

Maybe one day you will be able to discuss this objectively.

 

[asiasdad]

Why are so many cue makers located in wisconsin?

Pechauer owns his own forest there, has his own kilns,
and I've never seen a poorly made Pechauer get to
the public.

Perhaps the other production guys are just following
this great example.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Here is an auction that has one of those Tai-Can cues,this cue looks so nice,the shafts look good and for the money you cant beat it,the jps are sweet too,this cue from a cuemakers here would be over a grand easily.
http://cgi.ebay.com.hk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250189198652&ih=015&category=44077

 

[JoeyInCali]

Actually John you were the first one who made a blanket statement.
You said you were tired of hearing the quality of imported cues sucks.
I pointed out that not all imports are perceived to be that way. Only the Chinese made ones have that reputation.
That I did not make up and not an opinion. So try not to attack me on that one.
Nobody here is saying Canadian or European made cues are bad, I don't think.
But, those $99 Chinese imports ?

Then you started hootin your horn on Fury. Then you came out with issues and argued your own issues.
Lawyers do that.
I asked how many pros play with Chinese-made cues unpaide and I guess that was a snipe.
I am bound by a secret oath not to reveal the details of that but I assure you it's true.
Jeesh, that's a little hypocritical after calling my answer convenient.
And how can this be objectively discussed?
You work for a company whose factory is in China.
I don't expect you to say you'd rather play with a nice sneaky pete by Scruggs than a fancy Fury.

 

[JB Cases]

It IS the gov's responsibility to protect American businesses and when countries overseas start to use labor that is bordering on slave labor in order to sell at lower than US market value, then it is the gov's responsible to raise import tariffs in order to protect US businesses. There have thousands of businesses that have had to close their doors or allow themselves to be bought out by multinational corporations that import goods because of cheao imports. It might not have a direct impact on most of the billiards industry, but in general it has destroyed the American way of life.

The main reason that the gov hasn't done it's job is that these same mutlinational corporations have padded their pockets and helped fund their cmapaigns in order for them to stay in office and that is the only reason.

I know it is your business to promote the importation of goods into the US but that doesn't mean that upstanding us citizens who have known the little guys that were forced out of business by a corrupt gov have to be happy about it.

Jaden

You have got to be kidding. Do you think that tariffs are enacted to "protect" jobs?

Where in the Constitution does it say that government should regulate trade?

You are saying that imported goods have destroyed the American way of life? How so?

What is the "American" way of life?

The right to life?

The right to liberty?

The right to the pursuit of happiness?

How do you feel about it when the US Government subsidizes the production of wheat and thereby causes a glut of wheat depressing prices and causing farmers in other parts of the world to go under because they can't afford to produce wheat at the cost of US subsidized wheat?

It is not my business to promote the importation of goods. My business is to provide goods that give the consumer a good value for the money they are giving to me.

If I don't do that then I expect to go out of business.

You are sensationalizing things way out of proportion.

First of all NO ONE has the right to conduct business and be free of competiton. When that situation happens then it leads most often to higher prices and less value for the consumer.

Secondly, millions of businesses start each year and the majority of them fail through poor management rather than competition.

Thirdly, no business has an inherent right to exist. A business only exists as long as it is able to serve it's customers. So if a business goes under because the competition is too strong or if it merges with the competition then that is the natural cycle of business.

Where do you propose it stops Jaden with things like tariffs and subsidies? Which companies should get government welfare? Which industries should get government protection? What are the criteria? On whose behalf should these things be implemented?

Not to say that you are this way but it's often that those opposed to personal welfare are for corporate welfare. I think that you would be amazed at the amount of government "help" in the form of grants, loans, subsidies, tariffs, contracts, consulting and so on that goes on in the USA every year.

And as for your "slave labor" comment - another red herring by the way. Think about who picked your vegetables next time you are buying tomatoes on sale. I wonder how many of those migrant workers living in shacks are enjoying your lifestyle when they finish a 12 hour day for less than minimum wage with no health care, no worker's comp, no social security.

You think China is out to destroy the "American Way of Life"? If they did that then who would buy all these goods? Are you kidding? China wants the American Way of Life - a tv in each room, a two car garage and three cars to fill it, $4 coffee (they have that now).

What makes you think that other countries need to have labor rates that are the same as US rates? Even in the USA labor rates vary wildly.

Olhausen Billiards just moved from California to Tennessee. Why? Because Tennessee offered them tax breaks and free training for their employees and so they could reduce their costs. So why isn't it bad for the California employees who lost their Olhausen jobs and didn't want to or couldn't move.

And the list goes on and on and on and on..........

It's just business.

 

[mjantti]

I'm glad I brought this up. Starting to look like a real conversation, especially when there are people involved who at least seem to know what they are talking about

 

[mjantti]

I'm glad I brought this up. Starting to look like a real conversation, especially when there are people involved who at least seem to know what they are talking about

 

[JB Cases]

Actually John you were the first one who made a blanket statement.
You said you were tired of hearing the quality of imported cues sucks.
I pointed out that not all imports are perceived to be that way. Only the Chinese made ones have that reputation.
That I did not make up and not an opinion. So try not to attack me on that one.
Nobody here is saying Canadian or European made cues are bad, I don't think.
But, those $99 Chinese imports ?

Then you started hootin your horn on Fury. Then you came out with issues and argued your own issues.
Lawyers do that.
I asked how many pros play with Chinese-made cues unpaide and I guess that was a snipe.
I am bound by a secret oath not to reveal the details of that but I assure you it's true.
Jeesh, that's a little hypocritical after calling my answer convenient.
And how can this be objectively discussed?
You work for a company whose factory is in China.
I don't expect you to say you'd rather play with a nice sneaky pete by Scruggs than a fancy Fury.

I think you will find that more often than not ALL asian cues get lumped together.

I used Fury because it's easier to discuss apples to apples when we are talking about particular apples. I know the Fury cues and all the cues that come out of our factory. I simply chose the most well known brand we sell to use as the test cue.

"secret oath" = sarcasm.

Actually those that know me know that I switch cues all the time. I do own a Scruggs sneaky pete and I own several Fury cues. I can play with any of them. One thing I WILL NOT DO is play with a cue that is not comfortable to me.

That includes many Fury cues I have picked up. And many American brands as well. Let me ask you this though, what does personal preference prove?

Let's take someone who plays good and give them a Scruggs sneaky pete and a Fury sneaky pete. IF they were to choose the Fury then does that make the Fury "better"? Of course not. It makes it that person's choice.

Also it's not price that makes the cue. You should know that. You can't say "those $99 Chinese imports" with the attitude that they are automatically bad because they are $99. A cue is either good or bad based on the merits of it's construction and not it's price. You and I both know of very expensive American made cues that should have never made it out of the shop.

How to discuss this objectively?

Easy, take the object, a pool cue, and dissect it by explaining every part and why it's important. Then discuss the construction and why it's important to have a cue constructed a certain way.

Then you take the Chinese pool cue and dissect it to see if it is made according to established methods of good construction using the proper parts. The result will be an objective report on the actual quality of the product.

I have seen import cues evolve from the ramin wood $4 Budweiser specials at the flea market to real cues with real quality.

Just last week I tried to remake the famous cane cue - you know the one where the shaft fits inside the butt. I was told that Kao Kao doesn't even make that cue anymore and hasn't made it for ten years. Consumers now demand cues that are truly good quality. And we deliver them.

 

[mjantti]

I think I made an incorrect statement earlier with cues' quality going down over the years. There's just a lot more to choose from and those cues come nowadays from all over the world. It's unfair to make statements on overall quality of cues coming from a certain area based on a few bad apples. But the image of Asian import cues is not good, but is getting better as they seem to be making quality cues more and more. That was my one of my points in my original post, I'd also like to know what cues are made entirely China/Asia to investigate their quality. I'm willing to give them a chance although I cannot imagine laying down my Scruggs for another cue

 

[JB Cases]

Pechauer owns his own forest there, has his own kilns,
and I've never seen a poorly made Pechauer get to
the public.

Perhaps the other production guys are just following
this great example.

I don't think Pechauer owns a forest.

In 1991 I bought ten Pechauer cues from Andy Grubbs at Starcade Billiards in Ft. Walton Beach Florida. That night I was looking at all the cues and was polishing them and one joint came off. Then I checked the rest of them and found that all the joints were loose.

Andy sent them back to Pechauer and they took care of the cues. Since then of course Pechauer has become a top notch cuemaker.

I can tell you that Kao Kao just completed millions of dollars of upgrades to bring the factory completely in line with American methods of production. In some cases they may be even more technically proficient now than some as practically each step is CNC controlled.

In 1995 I went to Tim Scruggs' shop and saw that he had about a hundred or so shafts hanging there in various stages of turning.

If you were to go into Kao Kao's wood warehouse right now you would see a hundred thousand shafts all hanging in exactly the same manner - all graded and dated. You would see thousands of bins of maple, ebony, and other exotic woods all graded and in various stages of turning.

You would see that the wood is entirely processed in the factory from lumber to cues.

Anyway, the discussion is about the perceived drop in quality and I disagree.

As I said in the beginning, cues are on average better now than they have ever been.

 

[Newton]

As a pool player you are saying this? This sounds like you are saying this from the perspective of an amateur economist. May I ask what your experience level is in manufacturing, retail, wholesale, material sourcing, labor, logistics, quality control and all the other variables that govern the development, production, and distribution of goods so that we can be on the same page when we discuss this. Because your characterization above that the "ONLY" reason a company produces goods in one place over another is not correct.

O dear o dear, I was waiting for this. Surprised that it took you so long time to get beck. I give you a story; I have just bought a product from China which is a great pice of kit. Lets break it down:
Manufacturing costs : I have no idea but it costs me in the range of $7-8000
Material,retail,wholesale,labor: Have no idea but it's included in my purchasing price.
Shipping,logistics and all the bells and whistles from China to Norway of a box which is 2x2x2m, 600Kg (would fit a couple of cues in this type of package):$445

How many pool cues could I buy from China for the same price, filling up the same volume of my current purchased product? I would guess many. Since the freight,logistics and all the bells and whistles cost $445, I think we pretty much could eliminate that cost to hardly nothing pr/ pool cue.

This company has ONE WEB PAGE. I have made my own web page and it costs me $2 a month, and now I'm actually exaggerating.

The point in this? I save MY money and the CHINESE earns theirs. There is no one in between which pulls $ because someone is living down there, knowing someone in the factory or whichever story may be used (and I'm not aim on you).

This product is built using high quality products, and do believe me - I have seen these in "highflying" web stores re-named or re-branded for a LOT of money.

Well I suppose you would. Does it make sense for someone to uproot their life and face an uphill battle against stereotypes, bigotry and racism, just to "earn more money"? I don't have to participate here and don't need to "defend" anything. I discuss these issues because I am actually here and experiencing these things from the other side. So what kind of experience do you have that allows you to make such blanket and simplistic statements?

Pretty much everything is made in low cost countries now a days. Cell phones, designer clothes, tools, electronics, cars and car components and you name it. Can you please explain to me why this is the case? Is it only because of the good food, nice weather, nice people, good quality accommodations ?

I believe that you don't go into detail because you can't go into detail.

OK, since you seems to believe that I'm making my statement from the thin air, I'll post some pictures of my Fury and my GB-5 later. I'm at work now.
But to summarize:
The Fury lost the shaft collars splitting the "ring work". Doing so the rings was obviously aluminum and trying to put it together again showed that the rings was not circular. I need to figure out the best way to rotate this in respect of the shaft to minimize the fact that the ring is sticking out.
The Fury has a wrap which as gone down the drain.
The Fury has painted "decorations" with a "Arizona Turquoise" look.
The metal cap around it's joint has fell off.
In general, I think there must have been some bad glue around where ever the cue have been produced.
Have I played with it? No and I have not bought it either. I got it for free

GB-5
Inlays has popped out and can be felt all over the cue. The shaft has so many spots of "dirty wood" (I don't know the english word for it) that you could speculate which type of wood is used. Then the points are uneven. This cue is parked 1200Km from me but I'll get my hands on it in a week.
Have I bought it? Yeas and I have played with it. Not the worst cue I have played with but certainly not worth the $1388 which was charged for it.

Again where are the details? Does a cue being "Italian made" mean it's good quality in the first place?

Longoni: I have not used one but I know two who own them and is not to happy with them. So I'm on thin ice hear

What is quality? Neither you or anyone else has come up with what a "good" cue is or established any kind of guide that has an easy way to distinguish quality levels. I am 100% positive that if I had some cues made in our Chinese factory with no known brands and set up a guy at Valley Forge who "claimed" to make them then there would be many people like you who would tout them as true quality and great examples of small cuemaker craftsmanship and tell everyone how they are better than import cues. It's funny how perception skews reality.

I don't know why you feel the need to single me out and to disrespect brands I am associated with. But if you are going to do this then please try to provide some reasoning behind your statements.

For me quality is something which manage to keep it's performance over time without falling to pieces, inlays popping out or wrap starts going up in smoke. To compare, my McDermott D22 which is possibly over 20 years, has still a good finnish (it has yellowed some areas), non of the inlays has popped out and the leather wrap is as nice as when I got it. The seem is still close to invisible. I cant say that about the Fury and the GB I have. I'm not sure how I can't link this to quality ?

I mean not to do you any disrespect of which ever brand you are working with! My experience is as mentioned above, which I base my conclusion on. If this is just linked to my two cues, then I apologize for trying to say that this is the case of all the cues. But I would then love to have a GB cue which is 20+ years and flawless.

And Kaz Miki, who owns Mezz, is a Fury distributer and has consulted on the construction and design of the Fury cues. Rodney Morris pulled a stock Fury cue off the wall in Valley Forge 2003 and took second to Johnny Archer in the pro event with it. Another well known professional plays with one that he bought and has won several events with it. And the list goes on.

Read my post again. I did not say ANYTHING about poor quality of MEZZ !!!! I said that a friend have one and it was GOOOD

Again, what is your qualification to judge the relative quality of cues? What is your basis for saying that an import cue is low quality? Please provide us with some specific criteria to use in the comparisons. On the economic side of the aisle demand fuels supply. Consumers demand value and they receive it with the variety of relatively inexpensive cues currently available. "Good old cues from the 80's" You sure know how to make a guy feel old.

Read my experiences above. If I don't qualify by owning two of the cues you seem to work with, I herby pull out from this discussion and leave it to the experts. I'm 35 years old, started playing when I was 14 and used cues named Pool League and Dufferin before my first McDermott in 87. Grey hears have popped out but I do feel fresh. Still

Yes you are pretty much saying that.

Again, I think you're view has colored my post to much where you "read everything is bad". I did not say that! I like MEZZ cues, and if there are other pool cues made some where down in China with good quality (Mezz is from Japan), thats fine. But don't put Fury and GB in that basket because of the mentioned reasons. There have been other so called US Made cues made down in Asia which has been produced by Mezz for many years, and I have no idea how these was doing on the US marked. I leave that to comment to those who knows Mali and the others.

"A shameful amount of money", that is an interesting phrase. I have to ask when we started looking at everyone's books to determine what amount of profit one is allowed to make? Do you have any idea what it costs to produce a Gold Crown pool table? Or the what the marketing costs per table are? How about the logistics costs of moving a pool table around the world and getting it to your door and set up properly so that it lives up to the Brunswick name? It's funny though because there are plenty of Brunswick copies out there that you can buy for a third of the price and which are nearly as good as the real thing.

Well, this was just a example. It seems like the mentioned brand is burning the candle in both ends in my world. They are to expensive where the Dynamic tables seems to take over the marked. If it was due to the local dealer was charging to much, I have a sneaking feeling that he would have reduced the price a long time ago... Which he has not done. I wonder why if his margins are so big?
As mentioned, shipping a 2x2x2m , 600KG wooden box from China costs me $455. If I plan to fill the whole container it would cost me arround $1200 if I'm not mistaking. Even if I send just one table costing $15000 the S&H is not the big expense... I would fit a couple of tables in a large container, wouldn't I ????

You use the name Newton and yet you won't analyze the situation in the true tradition of Isaac Newton's laws of the universe or Adam Smith's economic laws.

I use the nick Newton because I HAVE A NEWTON. Now you are being personal and stepping on my feet, which I'm polite enough to let pass without firing back tons of crap. We are civilized person and should behave like it.

What I mean Newton is that in business one charges the correct price according to what the market will pay or one goes out of business.

In other words, move to a low cost country to maximize the profit.

If Gold Crowns are truly $15,000 in your country then there is either a very good reason for it or the distributer is stupid to price themselves out of the market and open the door for lower priced copies.

http://www.biljardeksperten.no/cgi-private/shop/mainfake9.html - hit the top left button "Biljardbord" and divide whichever price (the highest number) by 5.4 and you have US $.

The fact of the matter is that the reasons that prices are the way they are, that goods are produced where they are, and that quality levels vary are complex and cannot be reduced simply to "making more money".

When Nokia fires up a new factory in China, is this because they are not trying to make more money? I do agree that quality control, materials and some human factors could be complex down there, but why do they bother if there is no candy in their pockets after sorting out the hazel and problems?

I don't mind having products made in Chine if the products passes a good quality control and the outcome is a solid product. If a pool cue manufacturer is so happy with the outcome of his products, I do however wonder why those small stickers saying "Made in China" is not glued to the cue??? However having a lot of cues in the marked which is falling apart is for me not the best way of recruiting young players which has used their savings on a cue....

I have actually proven my point by buying a quality product from China which have given me good follow up and service so far. But the bonus is that I save MY money.

I leave at at that. Keep on making you're cases down there (they look great) and hopefully you make a living out of it. Spending you're income in investing in new machines is something everybody would do and is pretty obvious when you run a company. I'm doing the same, which is pretty Mickey Mouse type of economy which every one understands.

Have to actually work now.

N

 

[Fast Lenny]

GB-5
Inlays has popped out and can be felt all over the cue. The shaft has so many spots of "dirty wood" (I don't know the english word for it) that you could speculate which type of wood is used. Then the points are uneven. This cue is parked 1200Km from me but I'll get my hands on it in a week.
Have I bought it? Yeas and I have played with it. Not the worst cue I have played with but certainly not worth the $1388 which was charged for it.

You got taken if you spent $1388 on a GB5,you overpaid by about a $1000.

 

[Newton]

You got taken if you spent $1388 on a GB5,you overpaid by about a $1000.

You got my point