Where is Don Mackey now?

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
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Silver Member
spot on

Its old news.

By now, we should have recovered from any damage that Mackey caused back in the 1990's. We can't go back and blame guys like Mackey and Trudeau - we have to take responsibility for this at some point, learn and grow from it.

. . . .

The blame falls solely on the entire industry. All inclusive. Instead of being united for a common purpose, we spend most of our energy keeping each other at a distance. If we took all the energy that goes into posturing, easing others out, screwing each over, etc - and then generated that energy positively to build something great - then we will succeed. Until then, get used to the way things are - and that's because of US, not Kevin Trudeau or Don Mackey.

A great post! I cut out a lot in the middle because what we really need to focus on is today's reality, not yesterday's dreams and myths. The pool world seems to spend all of it's time daydreaming about big money falling down upon it from above. Ain't gonna happen. The only way that pool is ever going to become what so many of us wish for it to be is if we start building pool from where it is at now without expecting a miracle to come along and make everything right.

A double breasted organization looks best. A lot of amateurs playing in their own events and each paying a little to fund pro events. Many of the amateurs hope to advance to the pro events but aside from that, the pro's have to be willing to give back to the game and the amateurs. Exhibitions, meet and greets, free or very inexpensive seminars here and there, the pro's would be giving something back for the money the amateurs put into the pro tour.

If pro pool became a professional organization that attracted a general audience then sponsors would take an interest. Probably smaller sponsors at first followed by larger ones as time went on.

This kind of growth is slow, let's say it would take ten years. 2020 before we get where we want to be! Damn, that takes the fun out of the daydream doesn't it? What about if we had started this direction in 2000? We could have started as far back as the seventies but all of us want everything today. Unfortunately things rarely work that way in the real world or the pool world either.

Hu
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
A great post! I cut out a lot in the middle because what we really need to focus on is today's reality, not yesterday's dreams and myths. The pool world seems to spend all of it's time daydreaming about big money falling down upon it from above. Ain't gonna happen. The only way that pool is ever going to become what so many of us wish for it to be is if we start building pool from where it is at now without expecting a miracle to come along and make everything right.

A double breasted organization looks best. A lot of amateurs playing in their own events and each paying a little to fund pro events. Many of the amateurs hope to advance to the pro events but aside from that, the pro's have to be willing to give back to the game and the amateurs. Exhibitions, meet and greets, free or very inexpensive seminars here and there, the pro's would be giving something back for the money the amateurs put into the pro tour.

If pro pool became a professional organization that attracted a general audience then sponsors would take an interest. Probably smaller sponsors at first followed by larger ones as time went on.

This kind of growth is slow, let's say it would take ten years. 2020 before we get where we want to be! Damn, that takes the fun out of the daydream doesn't it? What about if we had started this direction in 2000? We could have started as far back as the seventies but all of us want everything today. Unfortunately things rarely work that way in the real world or the pool world either.

Hu

In all dues respect Hu, we did start something in the 80's and the 90's but got sabotaged both times. It wasn't a dream either. There was a clear plan in place that got ambushed twice that I know of. I'll tell you about it someday. :)
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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Silver Member
Remember the last Legends of 9-Ball at the Commerce Casino?
I witnessed a US Open winner beg for his check on Saturday so he could go home after he was eliminated.:rolleyes:
At the Riviera, they were scalping tickets to the World 8-Ball semis and finals.
One big dude claimed the venue was sold out. It was right there in the open. I paid two times the ticket's face value. When I got in, there were plenty of seats left even during the finals.
He sure did a great job in getting the ESPN contract cancelled. The year after ESPN showed LIVE coverage of the US OPen.

NO ONE got paid for the last FIVE tournaments that year. All they got was promises! Someone (???) kept all their entry fee money and also got the gate. Wonder who that was? The players continued to play because Camel had put up a $300,000 bonus fund going to the top 20 players at the end of the year. That money did get paid. How about them apples!
 
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JoeyInCali

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
NO ONE got paid for the last FIVE tournaments that year. All they got was promises! They continued to play because Camel had put up a $300,000 bonus fund going to the top 20 players at the end of the year. How about them apples!

Ouch!
And Danny Medina's check bounced then he lost the house after winning the World 8-Ball. :rolleyes:
Parica picked the wrong year to win tournaments.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Ouch!
And Danny Medina's check bounced then he lost the house after winning the World 8-Ball. :rolleyes:
Parica picked the wrong year to win tournaments.

Danny went up to Mackey's room and demanded his money. He got paid! Parica did win the $60,000 first prize from the 300K Camel Bonus awards.
 

Eric.

Club a member
Silver Member
I can't fault Don Mackey for trying to keep his dream alive. I was one of the people that never believed in "his dream" from the start - and I was not surprised to see the walls crumble around him.

Were you there? As a player or a bystander?


Eric
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Really doesn't matter

In all dues respect Hu, we did start something in the 80's and the 90's but got sabotaged both times. It wasn't a dream either. There was a clear plan in place that got ambushed twice that I know of. I'll tell you about it someday. :)

Jay,

I have gotten screwed over royally a few times in life. Once was for over $40K in the early seventies once was for over $120K back in the eighties. I had and still have the options of moaning about what could have been, maybe even what should have been, the rest of my life or I can dust myself off and try again. Bottom line, nothing that happened in the eighties or even the nineties should have any impact on today's pool. Learn from what happened and try again.

Hu
 

DRW

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Don Mackey

Surely the pool world has had enough of this type of thing. One killed and another attempted murder plus people living in fear in the Philippines. Do we want to drive the game completely down the drain?

Where's Crawfish when you need him?:grin:
 

Mark Griffin

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
The only way that pool is ever going to become what so many of us wish for it to be is if we start building pool from where it is at now without expecting a miracle to come along and make everything right.

A double breasted organization looks best. A lot of amateurs playing in their own events and each paying a little to fund pro events. Many of the amateurs hope to advance to the pro events but aside from that, the pro's have to be willing to give back to the game and the amateurs. Exhibitions, meet and greets, free or very inexpensive seminars here and there, the pro's would be giving something back for the money the amateurs put into the pro tour.


This kind of growth is slow, let's say it would take ten years. 2020 before we get where we want to be! Damn, that takes the fun out of the daydream doesn't it? What about if we had started this direction in 2000? We could have started as far back as the seventies but all of us want everything today. Unfortunately things rarely work that way in the real world or the pool world either.

Hu

Hu - I agree with you a lot. That is what the USA Pool League is all about. You can get info on it at www.playusapool.com. This league has recently started up - it is a division of CSI. It is the future of pool.

Hopefully people will have questions and contact our office: 702-719-7665. The first year is free to join - the protected territories are free - and the whole system is web based for instant stats. We have really given a lot of thought to putting this together.

Mark Griffin
CSI-BCAPL-USAPL
 

catpool9

"Rack Um"/ Rusty Lock
Silver Member
Camel Pro-Tour

I know one thing about the Camel Pro-Tour the first year, it was on like every Wednesday night at 8:00 P:M on ESPN back then, Prime Time viewing and ESPN didn't have but like two networks back then if I remember correctely.

I really did enjoy watching it, and recorded most all of the matches , Parica,Reyes,Morse,Archer,Varner,Davenport, Rempe, and up and coming players at that time were playing some very good pool for us, several of those guys were stringing alot of racks together, and that made it exciting to watch, not this alternating break format of today, I hate that crap.

And I might add that Buddy Halls commentating on the matches was Superb!, he nailed every upcoming play (shot) every time when he was doing the commentary.

Its a shame that it went to hell in a hand basket!, like the next year, it went from prime time to the 2:00 and 3:00 A:M time slot, which blew the ratings.

I do believe Don Mackey was trying to do right at first, but RJR did some back pedaling, so for what ever reasons Mackey jump ship and pissed everyone off!

I agree it could have been a great thing, and was for a time, but its got to be more to it than all Don Mackey's fault for the failure of the tour.


David Harcrow
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'll take a look

Hu - I agree with you a lot. That is what the USA Pool League is all about. You can get info on it at www.playusapool.com. This league has recently started up - it is a division of CSI. It is the future of pool.

Hopefully people will have questions and contact our office: 702-719-7665. The first year is free to join - the protected territories are free - and the whole system is web based for instant stats. We have really given a lot of thought to putting this together.

Mark Griffin
CSI-BCAPL-USAPL



Mark,

I will read over the USA Pool League info soon. I do know that you are one of the people that are trying to improve the game and are doing a lot of things now. There are many people with ideas, pushing them towards reality takes guts and hard work. I wish you every success.

Hu
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
I know one thing about the Camel Pro-Tour the first year, it was on like every Wednesday night at 8:00 P:M on ESPN back then, Prime Time viewing and ESPN didn't have but like two networks back then if I remember correctely.

I really did enjoy watching it, and recorded most all of the matches , Parica,Reyes,Morse,Archer,Varner,Davenport, Rempe, and up and coming players at that time were playing some very good pool for us, several of those guys were stringing alot of racks together, and that made it exciting to watch, not this alternating break format of today, I hate that crap.

And I might add that Buddy Halls commentating on the matches was Superb!, he nailed every upcoming play (shot) every time when he was doing the commentary.

Its a shame that it went to hell in a hand basket!, like the next year, it went from prime time to the 2:00 and 3:00 A:M time slot, which blew the ratings.

I do believe Don Mackey was trying to do right at first, but RJR did some back pedaling, so for what ever reasons Mackey jump ship and pissed everyone off!

I agree it could have been a great thing, and was for a time, but its got to be more to it than all Don Mackey's fault for the failure of the tour.


David Harcrow

It wasn't all Mackey's fault, but he encouraged and led a player revolt against R.J. Reynolds. Here they were playing for decent money and moaning and groaning about why there wasn't more money for them. Plus a few other complaints not worth mentioning here. The final straw for Camel came when Earl walked out during the Finals of the Camel Tour event in Milwaukee at Romaine's. The big guys from Camel were there and mortified by him quitting in the middle of a match. They began to rethink their involvement with pro pool after that. Mackey's demands of them (Camel) only fueled the fire.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
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Silver Member
Jay,

I have gotten screwed over royally a few times in life. Once was for over $40K in the early seventies once was for over $120K back in the eighties. I had and still have the options of moaning about what could have been, maybe even what should have been, the rest of my life or I can dust myself off and try again. Bottom line, nothing that happened in the eighties or even the nineties should have any impact on today's pool. Learn from what happened and try again.

Hu

I learned my lessons well, thank you. I found out there was no loyalty in pool. I think learning about history is important. That is why they teach it in school. Having a historical perspective can sometimes help us to make better decisions in the future. Like the lessons we should have learned from Viet Nam. To bad Bush & Co. chose not to pay attention. 5,000 dead so far and for what?

Sorry, I know that is not pool related, but I am making an analogy about what took place as recently as ten years ago in the pool world. Our more recent history brought us the IPT saga, where another snake oil salesman charmed everyone for a while.
 

cuetechasaurus

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It wasn't all Mackey's fault, but he encouraged and led a player revolt against R.J. Reynolds. Here they were playing for decent money and moaning and groaning about why there wasn't more money for them. Plus a few other complaints not worth mentioning here. The final straw for Camel came when Earl walked out during the Finals of the Camel Tour event in Milwaukee at Romaine's. The big guys from Camel were there and mortified by him quitting in the middle of a match. They began to rethink their involvement with pro pool after that. Mackey's demands of them (Camel) only fueled the fire.

Who was Earl playing and why did he walk out?
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I learned my lessons well, thank you. I found out there was no loyalty in pool. I think learning about history is important. That is why they teach it in school. Having a historical perspective can sometimes help us to make better decisions in the future. Like the lessons we should have learned from Viet Nam. To bad Bush & Co. chose not to pay attention. 5,000 dead so far and for what?

Sorry, I know that is not pool related, but I am making an analogy about what took place as recently as ten years ago in the pool world. Our more recent history brought us the IPT saga, where another snake oil salesman charmed everyone for a while.



Jay,

I can do a little digging on this very forum and prove you wrong about loyalty in pool. There was a guy that got involved in several things to help a player or group of players far beyond any obligation to do so. A fellow by the name of Jay Helfert. I'd have to check but I think that Helfert fellow was the first to jump in to assist in doing something for Terry Ardeno too. There are quite a few more people just like Helfert in the pool world also. In the end the pool world is just like any other group I have been a part of, some good, some bad, some just too stupid to be breathing good air somebody else could be using, but all and all pretty good people.

No real resemblance between your two wars either. One we never tried to win, one we won in a few months time. The stupidity comes in the attempts to nation build afterwards and thinking that we can change over 2000 years of mideast thinking and hatreds.

As we have both said, we learn from history. However we move on too. The IPT was a super long shot as I told people from the very beginning. Anybody that hooked their cart to that horse more than event by event was asking to get burned. Twenty or thirty years ago I would have bellied up to that trough too but I would have covered my butt at the same time.

The IPT, Mackey, the Camel tour, all yesterday's news. We learn our lessons from all of these things and we move on. We can build something for ourselves on a solid foundation or we can chase after outsiders and build on shifting sand. If you are correct and the main reason Reynolds bailed was one match then they would have found another excuse anyway. We won't be able to hold major sponsors until we can give them much more return than it costs to sponsor us. They weren't sponsoring pool because a few pool players smoked, they were after a far bigger market.

Hu
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
Jay,

I can do a little digging on this very forum and prove you wrong about loyalty in pool. There was a guy that got involved in several things to help a player or group of players far beyond any obligation to do so. A fellow by the name of Jay Helfert. I'd have to check but I think that Helfert fellow was the first to jump in to assist in doing something for Terry Ardeno too. There are quite a few more people just like Helfert in the pool world also. In the end the pool world is just like any other group I have been a part of, some good, some bad, some just too stupid to be breathing good air somebody else could be using, but all and all pretty good people.

No real resemblance between your two wars either. One we never tried to win, one we won in a few months time. The stupidity comes in the attempts to nation build afterwards and thinking that we can change over 2000 years of mideast thinking and hatreds.

As we have both said, we learn from history. However we move on too. The IPT was a super long shot as I told people from the very beginning. Anybody that hooked their cart to that horse more than event by event was asking to get burned. Twenty or thirty years ago I would have bellied up to that trough too but I would have covered my butt at the same time.

The IPT, Mackey, the Camel tour, all yesterday's news. We learn our lessons from all of these things and we move on. We can build something for ourselves on a solid foundation or we can chase after outsiders and build on shifting sand. If you are correct and the main reason Reynolds bailed was one match then they would have found another excuse anyway. We won't be able to hold major sponsors until we can give them much more return than it costs to sponsor us. They weren't sponsoring pool because a few pool players smoked, they were after a far bigger market.

Hu


Thanks Hu! We all have to answer to our own conscience. And that's what has always guided me. And like you I have been burned a few times. I got back up, a little bruised, and went back to work. I still love the sport of pool and many of the people in it. I wish I could have done more for the game. That was my goal for over twenty years.

I remain actively involved, as a tournament director, commentator, writer and player sponsor. My dreams of a professional pool tour have been put on the back burner, where they will probably remain. It is no longer my priority. Someone else will have to accomplish this. I failed.

P.S. Your analysis of the Iraq war is the clearest, most concise and most accurate I've ever read. Bravo!
 
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
thanks to you too and I think I do understand what you are saying

Thanks Hu! We all have to answer to our own conscience. And that's what has always guided me. And like you I have been burned a few times. I got back up, a little bruised, and went back to work. I still love the sport of pool and many of the people in it. I wish I could have done more for the game. That was my goal for over twenty years.

I remain actively involved, as a tournament director, commentator, writer and player sponsor. My dreams of a professional pool tour have been put on the back burner, where they will probably remain. It is no longer my priority. Someone else will have to accomplish this. I failed.

P.S. Your analysis of the Iraq war is the clearest, most concise and most accurate I've ever read. Bravo!


Jay,

Thanks for your kind words too and I think I do understand what you are saying. I have always heard the old saying , try, try, and try again but down here we add "and then give up, no sense being a damned fool about it!"

While I don't consider the people that keep trying damned fools there are a few brick walls I have beaten my head against enough times that I have no plans of taking on that particular battle again.

One thing I have learned as a general statement, always exceptions to any general statement, when you put the competitors in control they are their own worst enemy. Most successful sports had a strong man or very small group holding the power in the formulative years. The catch is that you need a strong leadership that puts the sport above all else including themselves.

I took a hard look at playing pool for a living in the early seventies. While I made a decent living at it for a few months here and there it wasn't what I would call a profession. Over thirty-five years later there hasn't much changed. Without a strong enough leadership to pull the sport together I doubt it changes in my lifetime. I support the people trying to change things for the better but those are prescription lenses in my rose colored glasses, I see things pretty clearly through them.

Hu
 

allen_jr

CanYouRunOut.com
Silver Member
He was playing Corey, and if i'm not mistaken, he was pissed at Corey using the soft break and beating him so he quit mid match.

Yea, I'm pretty sure it was Corey, and Corey was quite young... I don't think he was soft-breaking, but it would have been Corey's first professional win, if I'm not mistaken. Given that his first professional win would have come against a player like Earl,it was quite a big match.

And, it was very well known that Camel was on the fence about whether to continue the tour. This could have been a great final match, and maybe Camel would have continued the tour. But, Earl walked out, RJR was quite angry, and the free money going to players from Camel stopped.

But luckily, the players that agreed with Mackey continued their lawsuit against THE ONLY CORPORATE AMERICA ENTITY PUTTING MONEY IN POOL PLAYERS POCKETS (Players on Camel Tour even got a year end bonus based on performance and rankings, etc...) All those players must be happy now - Mackey got all the money, Camel is gone, Corporate America ® saw a sport biting the hand that was feeding it, and the players were back to looking for Big Added Money ™ events to play in...
 
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