Which is more difficult vs the ghost

alstl

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Is it more difficult to set up a break shot in 14.1 and successfully get through the rack and execute a successful break shot on the next rack or to run a rack of 9 ball vs the ghost?

Best evidence in 14.1 is Dennis Walsh's straight pool challenge at DCC.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5800717&postcount=56

A little more than 60% of the time players got through the first rack with bih and with a new full rack players got through the rack 65% of the time but 8% of the time they missed the break shot. So in Dennis' competition in which players pay $100 dollars to get a dozen chances the success rate is somewhere in the mid to upper 50% range.

The best evidence I find in 9 ball is this study.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/nine-ball_drill.pdf

I don't know where they got their data or on what equipment they are playing but generally speaking it appears to be considered an A player you need to run out vs the 9 ball ghost about 70% of the time.

It's inexact admittedly but it appears from this data it's harder to get through a rack of 14.1.
 
alstl said:
Is it more difficult to set up a break shot in 14.1 and successfully get through the rack and execute a successful break shot on the next rack or to run a rack of 9 ball vs the ghost?

Best evidence in 14.1 is Dennis Walsh's straight pool challenge at DCC.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=5800717&postcount=56

A little more than 60% of the time players got through the first rack with bih and with a new full rack players got through the rack 65% of the time but 8% of the time they missed the break shot. So in Dennis' competition in which players pay $100 dollars to get a dozen chances the success rate is somewhere in the mid to upper 50% range.

The best evidence I find in 9 ball is this study.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/resources/nine-ball_drill.pdf

I don't know where they got their data or on what equipment they are playing but generally speaking it appears to be considered an A player you need to run out vs the 9 ball ghost about 70% of the time.

It's inexact admittedly but it appears from this data it's harder to get through a rack of 14.1.
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I practice straight pool whenever I get the chance. I would agree that I run out more often playing the 9-ball ghost than I successfully get into the second rack playing straight pool. If I didn’t need to get into that second rack, the odds of me running those 15 balls would go up quite a bit.
 
I agree the nine ball ghost is a bit easier.

My high run in 9 ball ghost racks is over twice what my high run is in straight pool racks for one thing. And if I had to choose between running 100 or beating the ghost 7-0 with one attempt I'd much rather take on the ghost.

In the end each shot is a shot, and there is always an opportunity for human error. Having to shoot less shots equates to less opportunity for mistakes much of the time. Secondary break shots, manufacturing break balls, landing on the break ball, and successfully pocketing it while freeing up the cue ball add up to more than the 1-2 tough transitions you face during a nine ball run.
 
I think they are about equal. If a player is good enough to run 1 rack of the 9 ball ghost on command, he is probably the same odds to run 15 balls of straight Pool.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I think they are about equal. If a player is good enough to run 1 rack of the 9 ball ghost on command, he is probably the same odds to run 15 balls of straight Pool.
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But it's not just running 15 balls, it's also getting a break shot for the next rack AND making it and successfully complete the breakout. I'd say it's probably 10 times harder doing this consistently then just running 15 balls.
 
Yes, good point I missed that part. Agree, this is way harder.

I practice the AZB 9 ball ghost challenge race to 7 all the time. And also the AZB 14.1 high run challenge. I def have more racks run of 9 ball than 15, even 14 balls of straight.
 
The cross over between 9ball and 14.1 is far different for a 9ball player than the cross over between an 8ball player to 14.1. The fact is most 9ball players don't like playing 8ball, and most 8ball players don't like 9ball. So, the stroke and pattern play of 8ball closely resembles the stroke and pattern play of 14.1. In general, and I'm not saying all players, I'm just saying the average 9ball player don't play 14.1 very well, whereas most 8ball players that play 14.1 play it better.
 
Huh? Who mentioned 8 ball? No players play 8 ball except bar bangers.

I think the question would be comparing players that are equally experienced in 9 ball and 14-1. Tons of them in NE USA pool rooms that grew up playing both.
 
skill level

Skill level may be relevant as well. The original stats were from top pros and may not represent all skill levels.

If you had an absolute novice they could never run a full rack of straight pool, but they might be able to short rack the occasional 9 ball with a 1-9 or 2-9 combo. Here the stats may look like 0% straight pool and 5% 9 ball.

I tried imagining if there were any skill levels at which a player would prefer the straight pool challenge. Maybe as RKC was saying they might play good cue ball and patterns but be uncomfortable with routine nine ball shots and would rather hope to be able to work around their weaknesses using their strengths.

But in the end this seems like a major exception, not the rule. If the question was 'are there any players for which straight pool would be easier' then I'm sure that's a yes. If we're generalizing though I think 9 ball has to be the easier challenge.
 
With the nine ball ghost, you get BIH twice....once in the kitchen..again after the break.
...at 14.1, often you get clusters after the break.

Gambling with a player of my EXACT same speed....I’ll take the 9-ball side.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Huh? Who mentioned 8 ball? No players play 8 ball except bar bangers.

I think the question would be comparing players that are equally experienced in 9 ball and 14-1. Tons of them in NE USA pool rooms that grew up playing both.
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Who didn't know you'd have something to say, so let me correct you as you must be quite a bit younger than i am, 8 ball was around being played in pool rooms long before coin operated bar tables were even thought of, and being played before anyone knew what the game of 9ball was, just as 14.1 was.
 
Of course. You are always right, about everything under the sun;)

But 8 ball play has no relevance on this question.
 
iusedtoberich said:
Of course. You are always right, about everything under the sun;)

But 8 ball play has no relevance on this question.
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Last pocket 8 ball is by FAR a tougher game, whether played on a barbox or 9 foot table, than 9 ball, IMHO. And I've gambled on it, quite a bit.

Short Bus Russ
 
Christ. The q was 9 ball vs 14-1. Not 8 ball. And the question was not about what game’s strategies and stroke is more transferable to the other.

I’ll concede last pocket 8 ball is a tough gambling game:)
 
ShortBusRuss said:
Last pocket 8 ball is by FAR a tougher game, whether played on a barbox or 9 foot table, than 9 ball, IMHO. And I've gambled on it, quite a bit.

Short Bus Russ
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One pocket 8 ball is by FAR the toughest game, whether played on a barbox or 9 foot table, than 9 ball, IMHO. And I've never gambled on it, quite a bit.
 
Black-Balled said:
One pocket 8 ball is by FAR the toughest game, whether played on a barbox or 9 foot table, than 9 ball, IMHO. And I've never gambled on it, quite a bit.
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I will gamble all day long that YOU have never played 14:1 on a Chinese eight ball table. Its a somebich.
 
Tin Man said:
Skill level may be relevant as well. The original stats were from top pros and may not represent all skill levels.

If you had an absolute novice they could never run a full rack of straight pool, but they might be able to short rack the occasional 9 ball with a 1-9 or 2-9 combo. Here the stats may look like 0% straight pool and 5% 9 ball.

I tried imagining if there were any skill levels at which a player would prefer the straight pool challenge. Maybe as RKC was saying they might play good cue ball and patterns but be uncomfortable with routine nine ball shots and would rather hope to be able to work around their weaknesses using their strengths.

But in the end this seems like a major exception, not the rule. If the question was 'are there any players for which straight pool would be easier' then I'm sure that's a yes. If we're generalizing though I think 9 ball has to be the easier challenge.
Click to expand...

Thank you for seeing the light at the end of the tunnel....as others seem to be blind even in the light of the sun!!...LOL
 
I think a novice player would have an easier time running a rack in 14.1 than a full rack of nine ball.

14.1 is so much about patterns, like 8 ball, where is rotation games are more cue ball relative.

If you had your choice to coach a way through the rack, which one would you coach through? 9 ball or 14.1?

I could talk novices into running more balls at 14.1 than trying to talk them into spinning a cue ball to get in shape for the next shot?

But to string racks? 14.1 is harder. The pressure is there, when you break and run a 3 pack,

that pressure/excitement to run a fourth is a *****...(and then I typically break dry), the same in

straight pool, I get to a certain number and those pockets get small...lol

So 14.1 is harder than the 9 ball ghost.
 
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