Who makes the best shafts...

manwon said:
To my knowledge, a tight growth pattern can only be achieved by slow natural growth during optimum growth conditions, ie plenty of rain, and no outside interference.

Tree's, that would fit the bill as old growth are tree's, that have not been effected by a disease, and have been left alone for hundreds of years.

The growth rings whether outside or inside are the same over time. As the tree grows the rings will compress until the center almost appears solid. Another factor is that the tighter the growth rings, the stronger and especially heaver the wood will be due to compression.

I believe that the wood coming from the Great lakes is really fantastic, and I have seen some very stunning Birdseye and Burls that have been brought out of the great Lakes that are unlike anything you can find today.

However, if I had a choice I would purchase old wood that has not been exposed to moisture for a hundred years, because I suspect that it effects the properties of the wood, I do not know if that is good or bad, but I am certain that there is an effect.

This is why I purchase the older cues when ever possible.

Merry Christmas

Manwon

I think you need to have lesser rain and lower temperature for the wood to grow slower, I am not sure, but I think that is why the wood from up north is more desirable.

If a shaft has more rings per inch, it is denser and so should weight more. What is the average weight of a finished shaft with the old growth wood?

Going back to the question, I have been very impressed with Blue Grass 's shaft wood quality.
 
Of all the cues I haved played with and have owned I would say Searing's are my favorite. I also love Gus Szamboti and South West taper and finish.
 
shaft wood

Most of the contributing factors to how solid a shaft is, can be seen by growth rings. Keep in mind that the winter and summer grains are different. The winter growth rings are more vascular, as the fluids are conducted up the outside or sapwood, thus lessening the density. Conversely, the summer growth rings are less vascular and more dense. The tree grows only on the outside creating a rubberband type of compressing on the inside. Each year, The heartwood is kept moist and compressed until old growth becomes evident (many rings per inch). Remember that the winter/vascular grain is more subject to commpressing. The cell walls are compressed or "bent" a little more each year, as they are kept plyable in the center of the moist tree, getting more and more dense through continual pressure. After being harvested, the cell walls dry more thoroughly and "petrify." A long explaination to second that old growth yeilds not only good shafts but also even movement with humidity and temperature changes. A simple test is to weigh your equivalent shafts. On rare occasions you will find a heavy/dense shaft with 5 or 6 growth rings. Remember that hit is subjective, taper has a significant effect on hit (it may be modified to aid in the overall hit of the cue) and not all players like a stiff hit . The bottom line is that a good cuemaker makes the best shafts from the best wood! Hey Manwon, PM me on a good place to get 30-50 growth rings per shaft! Good playing to all! Kent
 
X Breaker said:
I think you need to have lesser rain and lower temperature for the wood to grow slower, I am not sure, but I think that is why the wood from up north is more desirable.

If a shaft has more rings per inch, it is denser and so should weight more. What is the average weight of a finished shaft with the old growth wood?

Going back to the question, I have been very impressed with Blue Grass 's shaft wood quality.

The shafts I have made from wood with 45 plus growth rings weigh between 4.8 to 5.3 oz and are 30 inch shafts.

The major fact about his wood is it's stiff hit not it's weight. The last shaft I made for a customer was tapered back 15 inches starting at 12.50mm and with the taper ending at 12.75mm. Even with this shaft tapered to this diameter the cue still hit as firm as a 13 plus mm shaft.

Deflection is also very minimal also considering the taper!!!

Have a nice day

Manwon
 
Barry makes the best playing shafts I've ever hit with. The quality of the wood is amazing. You can tell he sorted through a LOT of blanks to find just the right match for the butt.

The best newer maker is Bryan Mordt IMHO. He pays great detail to weight & finish, and his taper just feels good.

One of the best playing shafts I own is the darker one in the following pictures. It is an old growth shaft with lots of rings and is every bit as stiff at 12.6 mm as the other shaft at 13. It was made by Steve Klein. I think the shaft wood was some of the Great Lakes wood. It is dense!
 

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dead or lively?

manwon said:
The shafts I have made from wood with 45 plus growth rings weigh between 4.8 to 5.3 oz and are 30 inch shafts.

The major fact about his wood is it's stiff hit not it's weight. The last shaft I made for a customer was tapered back 15 inches starting at 12.50mm and with the taper ending at 12.75mm. Even with this shaft tapered to this diameter the cue still hit as firm as a 13 plus mm shaft.

Manwon

Can you have a very dense AND a 'lively' playing shaft? I think this very stiff and dense shaft you have would feel a little 'dead' to me. I hear people saying they must have a shaft that is over 4oz but some of my favorite playing shafts are around 3.8 oz and are 'lively'. dead and lively are not very good descriptions but that is the best I can do.

To answer the original poster: Its mostly trial and error. From my sampling I can say that Searing, Tucker and Petree make quality shafts that have playing characteristics I prefer.
 
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I just bought a John Showman shaft and tried it on several butts. All I can say is SUH-WEET!! :cool:
 
I'm surprised noone has mentioned Southwest, I always thought their taper and hit were pretty damn good. Plus didn't they teach some other cuemakers how to taper shafts and what machine setup to use?
 
I posted a thread months back about seeing pictures of what good shafts and bad shafts look like in the Cue Gallery and no one posted a thing.I will bump it and see if I get any results,post your pics there if you like if you have any pics of good or bad shafts. :)
 
I agree that all shafts will feel different to others but I was really impressed with Jim Lee's shaft the other day (J&D Customs). It was very light to me but hit solid as a rock IMO. I'm sure he can give you all the specs on his shafts but I was very impressed. The whole cue was lighter than I'm used to but hit stiffer than any other cue I've shot with (that includes Gilbert, Olivier, and Howard). But I havent been around the block and shot with other makers yet so I dont have a whole lot to compare too. But there was no doubt it has the hit I was looking for.
 
Here an article from Wayne Schmidt's Billiards Page . Which explain why Dieckman make the best shaft. I have posted this before.

http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/billiards.htm


NEW!!! The Dieckman shaft has arrived! Read how it tested out!

In January of 2006 I decided to see how much a shaft from a custom cue maker would cost and how much better it was than shafts from production houses. After an extensive search through all the cue makers in my link list, it was clear that Dennis Dieckman (Dieckman Cues) provided the most complete explanation of how he selects shaft wood, ages it, and slowly (over a period of years) turns it into a shaft. I contacted him and after several conversations he helped me decide on the best shaft for me. Once this was done, he checked his stock of nearly-complete shafts and suggested two that sounded like they'd fit my needs. After another discussion we decided on a proto-shaft made from 10-year wood (related to the fineness of the grain structure). He said it would take 6-months for the final turnings, aging, and finishing. When I asked how much it would cost I was amazed that it was less than what many production companies charge for their shafts.

The shaft arrived ahead of schedule heavily padded inside doubled-boxes to keep it safe. It was in perfect condition and even came with two extra water buffalo leather tips.

So how good is this shaft by Dennis Dieckman? Simply put, it is without question the finest shaft I have ever seen, measured, or handled. The warp is less than 0.001-inches. This is so straight that it challenged my ability to measure it. In fact it's more likely that what I measured has more to do with the inaccuracies of my equipment or technique. That anyone is able to achieve this high a quality starting with a piece of natural product is unbelievable.

The wood itself is perfectly straight-grained the entire length of the shaft.



The greatly-magnified image above of the shaft taken near the tip shows a grain count of 10 layers over a 13mm diameter. (I had to turn it into a black-and-white image and increase the contrast to make the grains visible. In person they are so fine and uniform that they are almost impossible to see.) This works out to an incredible 20 grains per inch. This means that the tree from which this piece of wood came from grew very slowly and evenly, ideal for the highest quality shaft. What this proved to me was that not only is Mr. Dieckman a first-class artisan, he also knows good wood when he sees it.

All this sounds great but how does the shaft feel and play? The combination of the shaft and tip are perfect for me in that they provide a very solid, mellow sensation when stroking the cue ball. It fills me with a sense of confidence that I've never felt with any other shaft. I couldn't be more pleased with the shaft and if I ever need another one I will purchase it only from Dennis Dieckman.
 
Interesting topic....

I agree with those who said that it is a personal preference but to a degree.... because personal preference is based on what that person got used to...

Any decent player will get used to any shaft in a month or so and will be able to return to the same level of play.

I think that the most important issue to consider is the pivot point because the bridging point has a lot to do with the length of the cue and the hight of the player.
Finding a shaft that has a pivot point where you are used to bridge with the combination of a good tip will give you the best playing shaft for you!
Of course a straight shaft will help as well.... :cool:
 
Nice old thread bumpage!!

Dennis Searing, hands down. Second was a 40+ yr old Gina shaft....
 
manwon said:
The question was what cue maker makes the shafts. Predator Products is not a cue maker, their PRODUCTS are made in CHINA.

Have a nice Day

Manwon

Come on, just say Predator Products is not a custom cue maker.

I'm about to buy one of those P3 cues from Predator without even seeing it and I need a little encouragement. :p

JoeyA
 
Ronnie has a couple of old growth shafts for sale....

From his website...www.queperfect.biz
==================================

I have two high gpi shafts I am offering.

These shafts are Old Growth

28 growth rings per inch of wood thickness. One only and is for a 58 inch cue. Price: $300.

40 growth ring per inch of wood thickness. Only one and can be for a cue 58 to 60 inches long. Price $390
 
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