Top pro has to win 10 games before opponent makes 10 balls playing 10-ball. (Balls made on the break don't count.)
A player?
B player?
C player?
D player?
A player?
B player?
C player?
D player?
who wins this game?
- Thread starter PhilosopherKing
- Start date
Question is: What exactly is your definition of an A, B, C, and D player?
Under my rough approximate definition, playing rotation (9-ball) against the ghost on a 9-foot table with standard 5-inch corner pockets, starting with ball-in-hand, it's a tossup match vs the ghost with this number of balls on the table:
D Player - 3 balls,
C Player - 5 balls
B Player - 7 balls
A Player - 10 balls
Pro vs D player - Pro wins easily
Pro vs C player - tossup, pro should win if he plays conservatively / a lot of safeties
Pro vs B player - B player wins, should be close if pro plays conservatively / a lot of safeties
Pro vs A player - A player should win easily
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Simeng Chen.
She's got the nuts. Hungarian ones.
She's got the nuts. Hungarian ones.
My thought exactly. The D and C player won't be able to handle the good safety play, and will rarely shoot at a make able ball as long as the pro uses safeties and only plays high percentage shots. The B should win, but it could go either way if the pro is hot that day. The A should win every time.
I consider myself a strong C player and I feel like I could get to 10 balls before a top pro won 10 games most every time. Don't forget, I can play safeties too (and possibly have a little luck).
Now, I'm assuming you're talking about 9-ball. If it were 10-ball, I feel my chances would improve by a small margin. If it's 8-ball, then it depends on the size of the table (on a bar box I may never get to the table).
Also, it would depend on if jump cues were allowed (which I am fairly adept at using).
Lots of variables in play.
I feel like my chances would be pretty good. Then again...I may be humbly under-rating myself.
Maniac
Now, I'm assuming you're talking about 9-ball. If it were 10-ball, I feel my chances would improve by a small margin. If it's 8-ball, then it depends on the size of the table (on a bar box I may never get to the table).
Also, it would depend on if jump cues were allowed (which I am fairly adept at using).
Lots of variables in play.
I feel like my chances would be pretty good. Then again...I may be humbly under-rating myself.
Maniac
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I think even a strong c has to be absolutely tough as nails psychologically to win this.
If it's on tight table, I don't like anyone but a strong A.
The pro and the D player square off for 10 large. Just before the game starts, the D's backer whispers in his ear for a couple of minutes. The pro wins the lag, makes a ball on the break but is hooked on the 1. He pushes out to a nothing shot and a hard safe but it's possible to hit half the 1 ball.
The D hits the 1 ball as hard as he can and it goes into the 10 but they do nothing useful. In the meantime the cue ball glances off the 7 which banks cross side and then the cue ball hits the 5 which kisses into the corner off the 4.
The D leads 2-0, and has no pocket for the 1 ball. He winds up again, launches the cue ball and suddenly every ball on the table is moving. The 7 goes into the side, the 3 looks like it's going to go cross corner, and the pro breaks his cue in half and leaves. The smiling backer pulls the stake from the light, gives $2k to the D player, and says, "Well, that was quick."
Or are they playing call shot?
The D hits the 1 ball as hard as he can and it goes into the 10 but they do nothing useful. In the meantime the cue ball glances off the 7 which banks cross side and then the cue ball hits the 5 which kisses into the corner off the 4.
The D leads 2-0, and has no pocket for the 1 ball. He winds up again, launches the cue ball and suddenly every ball on the table is moving. The 7 goes into the side, the 3 looks like it's going to go cross corner, and the pro breaks his cue in half and leaves. The smiling backer pulls the stake from the light, gives $2k to the D player, and says, "Well, that was quick."
Or are they playing call shot?
That's definitely one scenario.
Not called shot.
What if the opponent loses a ball on a foul?
Does a d player smashing the balls have a better chance than a c who's trying to bring everything they have to bear?
Why? What's at stake? You didn't mention anything so I'll assume it's a friendly match. The C surely must be in relax mode.
Maniac
I have a good friend that shoots not as good as I do. He drew Robb Saez at (I think) the Texas Open and won three games in a race to nine. I don't know but I'd bet in those three wins there were more than likely 10 balls pocketed. That's not counting some balls that he surely pocketed in the nine losses.
That said, Robb Saez is not a top-tier pro, IMO, but he's no slouch. But then, my friend may be nothing more than a straight-up C or slightly weaker.
I'm not saying that I could beat the pro every single race to ten, but I am certain that I could win a reasonable amount of matches. I have run a few 2-packs and I have too many break-and-runs to count, so as a C, I have the ability to run a good string of balls at any turn at the table. There's just too many variables to predict these sorts of outcomes.
Maniac
Unless we're talking about top ten i the world players, here's how I see it.
The "D" player would be a long shot. Pretty close match against a "C" player. I think a strongish "C" would be a slight favorite. A "B" player, I'd guess, would be be a 2:1 favorite. An "A" player, I'd guess, would be a 4:1 favorite.
... that's if they are playing someone whose world ranking is about 50th.
The "D" player would be a long shot. Pretty close match against a "C" player. I think a strongish "C" would be a slight favorite. A "B" player, I'd guess, would be be a 2:1 favorite. An "A" player, I'd guess, would be a 4:1 favorite.
... that's if they are playing someone whose world ranking is about 50th.
A beats top pro.
Top pro beats B, C, D.
I'd bet a ton and feel good about it.
Top pro beats B, C, D.
I'd bet a ton and feel good about it.
That top pro had better hope he/she doesn't give me (a C player) a BIH somewhere in that ten games. Good luck on that.
I feel very confident that maybe not in the first ten games, but sometime before the session is over I'm going to get to ten balls before he/she gets to ten wins, and probably more than once if at least six or eight races are played. Then again...I possibly could be underrating myself. I've never really got a grip on this A,B,C, and D ratings (not including the + and -'s). All I've got to go on is that I am a SL7 in the APA 9-ball league and can run a rack every now and then. You give me BIH with enough balls on the table and I'm gonna pocket most of them, if not all.
It makes for a very interesting and refreshing discussion. I hope more people chime in.
Maniac (may be having illusions of grandeur).
I would call myself a strong C also. If I get to the table with a good shot 2-3 times, there is a reasonable chance that I win the match. However, A legit top tier pro is never going to let me to the table with a good shot. Of course I can play safeties also, but I am a huge under dog to win out a safety match with any pro, let alone a top tier pro. Safety play is one of the big disginguishing factors between a "C" player, and an A/B. Maybe you are better than a "C", but no C I have seen has any chance against a pro in safety play, unless they make an unexpected mistake. That's why my statement said that the pro would win if he plays conservative and uses safety play if he doesn't have a high percentage shot.
Your friend playing Rob Saez is a very different situation because he is not necessarily counting balls, and may have been more aggressive. Also, there is no way a legit "C" gets three games consistently against any pro without some help from the pro.
I only win this match if the pro misses some easier shots that he would not normally miss. If he does, I have a shot, as 5-6 ball runs are common. That being said, the pro will only do that on occasion, and I would still have to convert. So, I would suggest that the pro beats me 8-9/10 times, if not more.
I think you are strongly underestimating how good a pro will be at controlling the table in this situation. I really don't believe a legit "C" wins this match very often.
Most SL7s in 9 ball are B players from what I have seen.
Any "A" and above player knows the importance of matching up well. It's frequently what determines the winner.
Point is, no "A" or better player would make this bet.
So this will remain in the obscurity of fantasy land, never to be seen or played in real life.
Therefore, the imaginary winner is irrelevant.
-von
Point is, no "A" or better player would make this bet.
So this will remain in the obscurity of fantasy land, never to be seen or played in real life.
Therefore, the imaginary winner is irrelevant.
-von
Once again...what bet? The OP didn't stipulate there being anything on the line. If there was nothing to be won or lost in this hypothetical "match", then why wouldn't a B, C, or D player have a go at the pro?
Maniac (I'd LOVE the opportunity to do it)