Who wishes a return to pre-express rules?
- Thread starter fan-tum
- Start date
I haven't really played by the old rules, so I don't know if I would like them better. I don't like nineball much the way it is, so I might like the older style better. However, if you are talking about a rule that allows a player to roll out only if he hooks himself, I am against it. If you hook yourself, that's too bad. I don't want a special rule to help people who hook themselves. It makes more sense to me to let a player roll out from a safety played by the other guy. If we are going to have a roll out available at any time, why not make it available at any time? I'd like to try the old rules sometime, but no one uses them.fan-tum said:
fan-tum said:
Actually, most of the rolls in nine ball are on the break itself.
Even with your proposal, a return to push out rules would reduce the penalty for position poorly played, and thereby reduce the advantage typically enjoyed by the premier position players. Do you really see this change as advancing the cause of ensuring that the better player prevails? When will you and all the others who advocate a return to push out nineball acknowledge that you are, by reducing the penalty for position poorly played, making position play a little less important?
Another problem with your proposal is the deemphasis of the two way shot. If my two way shot does not go in, is it a safety or a miss? Under your rules, if viewed as a safety, my opponent can't push out, but if viewed as a miss, they can. Hmmm, that doesn't really work for me.
I played some push out nineball in the late 1970's and early 1980's and, as far as I'm concerned, when a player hooked himself but was permitted to push out, he was very lucky indeed, and the elimination of push out effectively removed that aspect of luck from nineball.
I cannot deny that push out nineball is gone but not forgotten, but in my view, the sooner it's forgotten, the better.
fan-tum said:
Actually, you weren't allowed to push out anytime. The line by Buddy Hall in my sig is a misquote. If there had been a push or a foul the shot before and you pushed out, it was deemed a second foul and the opponent got ball in hand. I really believe that most people today don't understand the push out rules and if they did, and gave it some real thought, they would see it's a much better game than the current rules.
I respect SJM's opinion and his knowledge of the game, but I have to disagree with his take on this.
And this has been discussed here, with respect to changing the 9 ball rules, page after page. Various thread titles, etc.
One of my thoughts is to be allowed to push out of the other guy's safe and give him the option of shooting or not. If you hook yourself, you're stuck. And I don't really care for the two-way shot.
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I think the old rule of two consecutive fouls (by anyone or combination of players) for ball in hand would be interesting to try. I think you would see more strategy and hard shots, but it has been so long since I've seen it played that I don't remember all of the details. I think there would be a lot more strategy.fan-tum said:
I agree. Today's Texas Express type rules of play makes 9-ball more akin to video poker, than a game of skill. Personally I've all but stopped playing 9-ball due to it's being a game of chance. There is luck in all pool games, but at least in one-pocket, straight pool, and even 8-ball, there are more "outs" to balance the accidental bad leaves from one's opponent.fan-tum said:
Doc
gulfportdoc said:
I agree also. I prefer the option of pushing out anytime. I think they were playing the mini tournaments at Derby City last year that way. I have lost interest in 9-ball the way it's played now but I loved it the way it was played before the one-foul rule came into effect.
Curly
Great thread!
I don't know about the old rules but I sure wish they would change the current rules. I can't say how many times I've lost in a tourney giving 3 in a race to 5 because of 'weaker' players slopping in the 9ball. Call the 9 and call safeties! Is that too much to ask for?
I don't know about the old rules but I sure wish they would change the current rules. I can't say how many times I've lost in a tourney giving 3 in a race to 5 because of 'weaker' players slopping in the 9ball. Call the 9 and call safeties! Is that too much to ask for?
I like playing the game where my penalty for an error is maximized.
For example:
o If I foul, my opponent gets BIH...I'm not allowed a second chance by pushing out.
o If I scratch on the break, all balls stay down and my opponent gets BIH...my opponent is not penalized for my error by having to deal with spotted balls and shooting from behind the string.
o If I snooker myself, my opponent gets BIH...I'm not allowed a second chance by pushing out.
For example:
o If I foul, my opponent gets BIH...I'm not allowed a second chance by pushing out.
o If I scratch on the break, all balls stay down and my opponent gets BIH...my opponent is not penalized for my error by having to deal with spotted balls and shooting from behind the string.
o If I snooker myself, my opponent gets BIH...I'm not allowed a second chance by pushing out.
If the youngsters would give this an honest try, they would see that thegulfportdoc said:
best player will dominate. Should we want the worst player to win?
I'm sorry Jay (and others) but I think TE rules suck. The best shotmaker
should win, not the guy who slops an accidental saftey. Certainlly there
are variables, but the bottom line is the best shot maker wins!!!!!
Dick
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I do too.SJDinPHX said:
One guy misses and he hooks you.
I should have the option to push out since I can't make him shoot again even though he missed.
Going back to push out would definately favor the better player.
I believe you would see more runouts because these days if you see that making a ball and trying to breakout a tied up ball may put you in trouble by giving you a bad leave, you may pass on it. Many times we don't take that chance and just play position to play a safety.
With the push out rule we would go for that breakout and not be afraid of that bad leave knowing we can go the the push out.
However I do believe that for tournament play it may have a tendency to slow the play down. Many smart players will not push out to a makeable ball but rather to force the opponent to play a safety. This will force a series of safety play. This in its self will add time to the match.
In my opinion this is the reason the game went from pushout to TE. For tournament play and TV.
In pushout I myself waited for a mistake from my opponent in his safety play. There is much stategy to be learned from push out nine ball.
I believe you would see more runouts because these days if you see that making a ball and trying to breakout a tied up ball may put you in trouble by giving you a bad leave, you may pass on it. Many times we don't take that chance and just play position to play a safety.
With the push out rule we would go for that breakout and not be afraid of that bad leave knowing we can go the the push out.
However I do believe that for tournament play it may have a tendency to slow the play down. Many smart players will not push out to a makeable ball but rather to force the opponent to play a safety. This will force a series of safety play. This in its self will add time to the match.
In my opinion this is the reason the game went from pushout to TE. For tournament play and TV.
In pushout I myself waited for a mistake from my opponent in his safety play. There is much stategy to be learned from push out nine ball.
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Being a relative youngster (23) and not having played that long I never got to experience the heyday of rollout, However I have played it on several occasions with friends and I wish like hell that the current rules would be reversed to the two shot rollout format