Who You Got? Mike Sigel or Nick Varner

Who You Got? Mike Sigel vs Nick Varner

  • Mike Sigel

    Votes: 26 38.2%

  • Nick Varner

    Votes: 42 61.8%
  • Total voters
    68
jalapus logan said:
Since you're directing this film, whomever you choose to play our hero Nicky V needs to use a house cue plucked off of the wall to use in said death battle.
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Sorry -- no can do.

I envision our Nick wandering the seas, the jungles, and the cities with nothing more than the cash for his wager and his battered, lonely companion cue -- that accompanied him on his journey.
 
BasementDweller said:
Sorry -- no can do.

I envision our Nick wandering the seas, the jungles, and the cities with nothing more than the cash for his wager and his battered, lonely companion cue -- that accompanied him on his journey.
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In that case the cue should double as both a walking stick and a club to ward off assailants.
 
jalapus logan said:
...
You seem like a good dude BasementDweller. You gonna be at Derby this year? I usually go for a day to spectate and enjoy a brew. I'll offer to buy you one if our paths cross.
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Now that I've spent nearly 7 minutes on this script, I may be able to justify and expense some screen-writing research.

Maybe our paths will cross. If not this year then "one of these years"!
 
book collector said:
All I know for sure is that I watched all of these guys play for 30 or 40 years, every tournament I could get to. Also many big money matches.
Some of this stuff I am reading, I have to wonder where it came from? You could not have been there, and so must have gotten it second hand, from someone who got it second hand or something. The only other alternative is that I am nuts, probably 50/50.
My pool career began when Lassiter was still unbeatable. Then Mizerak took over for a while, Hopkins was a force for a while but not long enough to become a household name . Rempe was somewhere about that time I remember a hustler brought him to Columbus and he was only 17 and he played great, within 2 years he was KIng James that was about 1970? , for several years he beat everybody like a drum, David Howard won several big tournaments but I never thought he was the same calibre of player as any of those guys. Varner then took over , then he and Sigel were the clear favorites . But I thought Buddy played better than both of them, Parica was in there also but my time line on him is all screwed up. I remember he beat almost everybody for money, and would have probably won a lot of tournaments , but as someone said, the money was in the after hours , and he was usually in it. I had seen him beat almost everybody he played gambling, and one night someone said" I'll play you one handed jacked up, "
Parica ran out like he was playing 2 handed. I never saw anyone play like that jacked up, before or after.
Then along came Earl ! To me , he was the best nine ball player I ever saw, especially on the old equipment, pre 1986 or so ? He was intimidating, and he had every move in the world . Up to that point Sigel was king of the moves . Lint picking and pointing at pockets, lol Sigel would be practicing on the table he was getting ready to play a match on and start talking about one certain corner pocket, usually at the head of the table. he would roll the ball at it , shoot hard into the rail at it and say , look at that, {there was nothing wrong} but somewhere in the match his opponent would mishit a ball , thinking about all that bull shit he laid down. lol he was a dandy. Efren who some of you say couldn't play was usually right in the middle of things and he did a lot of playing at night too! I don't see how these guys did it, unless they took something, which I knew some who did, but I never heard about Efren being involved., Then Earl shoots everybodys liver out, then Johnny Archer starts playing good. Then he starts playing real good. It was just a matter of one tournament he was a 700 Fargo {it didn't exist at the time ,but if it had , thats about where he would be , then 2 tournaments later, nobody can beat him , he's 780 or 800. He just gets out every time it's his shot. I'm probably missing someone , but this is what I remember. I have what I think is a funny Varner, Sigel, Archer story. I was at a tournament standing next to Varner and Sigel talking after the days regulation play ends. { I heard this with my own ears } it's not a story from the pool room 40 years later .
Sigel says to Varner, very quietly , I heard Archer came down to your place for a week or two and donated some money playing cheap straight pool . Varner says ....yeahhhh , all drawn out with pride and the glow of getting his money, and Sigel says , I heard at the end he was playing way better than he did at the beginning, yeahhhhh, he caught on pretty quick.
Sigel's demeanor changed ,and without raising his voice, he snaps at him , why don't you invite him down to play some 5 dollar one pocket for a couple of weeks , then we won't be able to beat him at anything. Then he storms off . Varner looked like his mom slapped him, and it was all I could do, to not bust out laughing.
In my mind Efren is the greatest of all time for many reasons but the main 1 that I have never heard anyone else mention, again I might be nuts, but if you eliminate straight pool , which was pretty much dead as far as I know after 1970, except in New York, Efren was the best at the transistion to new equipment, some guys never could do it. Efren was one of the best on the old equipment and was even better on the new. imo
I think the new equipment killed Sigel, he could no longer slide the balls down the rails and he saw the writing on the wall.
Earl had to change his game , he could no longer make a lot of power shots he used before, it also hurt Archers game , Nick was not affected by it as much and neither was buddy , because they played such great position. imo
I am not as familiar with anything after 2000 I was too sick to be involved much, but from the mid 60s to the mid 90s, that's how I remember it,
That's how I saw it, what do you think?
Oops I forgot , the question was Varner or Sigel, too close to call , but I will always be a fan of Nick.
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Ah the digest was my early source for quickly knowing what was the point and who scored. ?
 
BasementDweller said:
Meanwhile, Mike is closing the gap. It seems Cornerman, sjm, and jay helfert are swaying the voters.

58/42. Nick
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I just voted for Nick. Being from KY, it is my duty. Also considering that Nick's nickname is The Kentucky Colonel, and given the worldwide acclaim afforded to one KY Colonel Sanders, I propose that our hero be battered and deep fried until rescued by Rempe et al...kinda like Han Solo from Return of the Jedi, only more fattening. You feelin' it brah?
 
jalapus logan said:
I just voted for Nick. Being from KY, it is my duty. Also considering that Nick's nickname is The Kentucky Colonel, and given the worldwide acclaim afforded to one KY Colonel Sanders, I propose that our hero be battered and deep fried until rescued by Rempe et al...kinda like Han Solo from Return of the Jedi, only more fattening. You feelin' it brah?
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That will be the basic plot of Varner III. That will be our straight to video YouTube film. I'll probably give you full writing credits for this one. Varner I and II will star an AI'd Gene Wilder. He'll be replaced with Frank Stallone for Varner III, Return of the Sigel.
 
jay helfert said:
I knew Kenny McCoy as well and he was one of the best in the entire Midwest. George had cataract surgery at some point in time, not sure when. He was still top speed in the mid 60's when I lived there. Watched him beat New York Blackie and Ed Kelly at the Cue and Bridge in Northtown Plaza. Chuck Morgan only came around if there was money to be won and he always seemed to get it. He declined a One Pocket game with Pete Glenn at Wink's poolroom though (it was later to become Forest Park Billiards). Morgan showed up at the Dayton tournaments in the early 70's and only played cash games. Very few of the players knew who he was.

I left Dayton pretty much for good in 1967, but came back in the 70's to play in a couple of Joe Burns tourneys. I wrote a story about it back then which I put in Pool Wars. We must have seen each other at some point in time. I played Cannonball, Dan Louie, Willie Munson and Jersey Red back to back one year. Won two and lost two. I won 250 in prize money and Joe Burns paid me with a Thousand dollar bill, which I kept for over twenty years. The next year I got slaughtered by my friend Jimmy Reid and Larry Lisciotti. After that I only went back one time with Danny Medina on our way from Kentucky to Chicago. I never went back again until my 40th high school reunion in 2002. Dayton was sad by then with all the big factories closed.
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I'm sure we rubbed elbows somewhere in there. I did not play banks at all , so I doubt we played , Morgan used to come to Columbus , but Kenny and he would never play, not sure why. Kenny was an absolute monster against guys who played just under him, like Howard Vickery, Howard never beat him once in 35 years and when he finally won about 50 dollars back out of thousands, Kenny would never play him again lol, He is so far ahead in the nit of the world contest, vs everyone else, it is silly.
But when a known player came in , Kenny either wouldn't play or played about 5 games poorly, and folded up shop. I know he played better than 90% of them.
In 1987 Chris Mc Donald played in the first Governors Cup in Columbus, he wasn't a champion speed but he wasn't helpless either, he snuck over to the pool room and Kenny didn't know him, and gave him the 7 and trounced him. lol
Who knows ,but I always felt if I played Kenny's speed, there would be less than 20 people in the world who could beat me , probably less, to me he was so scared with his money, he couldn't allow himself to fly. He beat Billy Stroud at nine ball , right before he started making cues, that should say something about his ability. He could have had backers , but I only saw him play using one once, against me , and the guy called him every nasty name in the book including dumper when I won. But to be honest I was stealing, the last time he had seen me play was what he based the spot on and in the previous 2 years I had been training with George and was 3 or 4 balls better than when we played before. He kept trying to quit, he knew he was in a trap , but the guy wouldn't let him,
 
book collector said:
I'm sure we rubbed elbows somewhere in there. I did not play banks at all , so I doubt we played , Morgan used to come to Columbus , but Kenny and he would never play, not sure why. Kenny was an absolute monster against guys who played just under him, like Howard Vickery, Howard never beat him once in 35 years and when he finally won about 50 dollars back out of thousands, Kenny would never play him again lol, He is so far ahead in the nit of the world contest, vs everyone else, it is silly.
But when a known player came in , Kenny either wouldn't play or played about 5 games poorly, and folded up shop. I know he played better than 90% of them.
In 1987 Chris Mc Donald played in the first Governors Cup in Columbus, he wasn't a champion speed but he wasn't helpless either, he snuck over to the pool room and Kenny didn't know him, and gave him the 7 and trounced him. lol
Who knows ,but I always felt if I played Kenny's speed, there would be less than 20 people in the world who could beat me , probably less, to me he was so scared with his money, he couldn't allow himself to fly. He beat Billy Stroud at nine ball , right before he started making cues, that should say something about his ability. He could have had backers , but I only saw him play using one once, against me , and the guy called him every nasty name in the book including dumper when I won. But to be honest I was stealing, the last time he had seen me play was what he based the spot on and in the previous 2 years I had been training with George and was 3 or 4 balls better than when we played before. He kept trying to quit, he knew he was in a trap , but the guy wouldn't let him,
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Did you ever go to Danny Jones' poolroom there in Columbus? Little Miami hung out there every day. I went in there a few times back in the mid 1960's. Miami wanted to play me my two hands to his one if I gave him the eight ball and I declined. I had heard too much about his one handed game. I was still in my pool infancy. Marshall Casoff was the best player at OSU. I never played him until we met years later in Los Angeles. By then he couldn't beat me anymore.
 
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jay helfert said:
Did you ever go to Danny Jones' poolroom there in Columbus? Little Miami hung out there every day. I went in there a few times back in the mid 1960's. Miami wanted to play me my two hands to his one if I gave him the eight ball and I declined. I had heard too much about his one handed game. I was still in my pool infancy. Marshall Casoff was the best player at OSU. I never played him until we met years later in Los Angeles. By then he couldn't beat me anymore.
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I went to Danny Jones place a couple of times. I was just starting to learn a little bit, did they call Marshall {Mouse}? I never saw Little Miami back then. He came later. I was in LA about 75 and 76 , I think I played Kim Davenport in a pool room near the beach somewhere. lol, man what a sucker I was.
 
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BasementDweller said:
Thanks. In my Hollywood "based on a true story" version, Nick goes there all alone in search of the Filipino pool master, to avenge the humiliating defeat he suffered back home, and to restore his country's good name.

Since I'm in charge of directing this film, I'll throw in a few beautiful Filipina love interests just to balance things out.
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Little real life info….Nick told me he hung around for a couple days but wasn’t offered a rematch.
Quite a while later, Efren was asked about his loss to Nick…Efren’s explanation….Nick never missed.
 
BasementDweller said:
others will chime in but I've always thought talk of his "weak break" was always exaggerated.
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His break was weak in the beginning. Efren eventually came up with a break from a different position on the headstring. It wasn't long until the rest started breaking from that spot. So he started with a weak break and then invented a new and improved break.
 
I learned a teckneeq watching Segal. Talking,.... No narration as he assessed the table analyzing out loud. When I tried, It helped me to get centered and even in an almost self depreciate monolog think out loud. Helps me to relax or release the tension analyzing the problem and making a decision. Opponents could find it annoying, especially when I don't miss. The knock on Dan Louie was, "he shoots So Slow". The annoyance was "he shoots slow but Never Misses". Another pro I strive to emulate. The whole process doesn't have to be slow, just the part after the bridge hand touches the table. An extra second there must seem like an eternity to the person in their chair. 🤷‍♂️
As for my opponent being annoyed by my narration......well like I told Lake City Red when he tried to shark me with talk while I was at the table. "When I am at the table, I can talk you sit down and shut up." Well a little stronger there was at least one F word involved. 🤷‍♂️ He got me so wound up that after beating him I went on to win the whole Shebang.
 
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gregcantrall said:
I learned a teckneeq watching Segal. Talking,.... No narration as he assessed the table analyzing out loud. When I tried, It helped me to get centered and even in an almost self depreciate monolog think out loud. Helps me to relax or release the tension analyzing the problem and making a decision. Opponents could find it annoying, especially when I don't miss. The knock on Dan Louie was, "he shoots So Slow". The annoyance was "he shoots slow but Never Misses". Another pro I strive to emulate. The whole process doesn't have to be slow, just the part after the bridge hand touches the table. An extra second there must seem like an eternity to the person in their chair. 🤷‍♂️
As for my opponent being annoyed by my narration......well like I told Lake City Red when he tried to shark me with talk while I was at the table. "When I am at the table, I can talk you sit down and shut up." Well a little stronger there was at least one F word involved. 🤷‍♂️ He got me so wound up that after beating him I went on to win the whole Shebang.
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Not exactly a surprising confession.
 
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