Whos the best playing instructor?

How about a Mosconi Cup type match between 3 Pendulum Stroke Instructors & 3 of their best students vs 3 Non Pendulum Proponent Instuctors & 3 of their best students or 8 vs 8. Whatever. Just an idea as I'm coming from another thread.

Thats funny! You better watch it or you might get labeled a naysayer!
 
The communication, playing, demonstrating and advanced technique segments

Thorsten Hohmann, IPAT Instructor and multiple world title holder.

That's the type of competition that we need. This could be very interesting if we could get the Worlds Top 8 to face off in a Teaching/Playing format.

I would love this type of event because it's so good for the overall Game. Many Great Instuctors never get a chance to get in the spotlight. The Pool World needs this type of competition to raise the overall "bar" to a much higher level.

The Game will benefit from many things that involve talent and skill other than just playing the Game, but sharing the Top Secret techniques with others that wish to play at a championship level.

The communication, playing, demonstrating and advanced technique segments would be fascinating to many Pocket Billiard enthusiasts. FASCINATING INDEED
 
Your posts are the most thought out and logical on this thread.

I tried to get a tournament going among instructors in Florida and got no response. I wasn't trying to prove anything, I just thought it would be fun and perhaps some publicity for all of us.

Many of the active instructors are my age (70) and older, and are simply past our "prime". For me, I was never a "professional" player, though I came out $$ ahead playing pool every year from 1967 to 1987 and 1990 to 2008. (brief retirement '87-'90)

While my knowledge of the game continues to increase, my physical skills have not. Health problems and economic woes have not helped.

Any kind of national or even state "Instructor Championships" would almost have to have a "senior" and "super senior" division to be fair.

How good an instructor plays is hardly as important as how well he or she teaches. And no "one size fits all"! Some folks think I'm a great instructor and others do not. That's OK...

"what is the purpose for trying to prove it?" Human ego, the curse of our species...

I think most understand that some who teach are way past their prime. I also understand that not all players had a chance to get their top speed on video, myself included. For those there is word of mouth though. I personally would like to know the speed the instuctor played before I would ever consider taking a lesson from him or her. I sure wouldn't take a lesson from a 20 handicap golfer if I was wanting to improve my golf game. I would think most instructors would want to show video of their speed. I mean is does relate to what their selling doesn't it?
 
I think CJ should go up against pro playing instructors and there should be another category to be fair for guys like Scott lee,Stan shuffett,etc.
 
I think most understand that some who teach are way past their prime. I also understand that not all players had a chance to get their top speed on video, myself included. For those there is word of mouth though. I personally would like to know the speed the instuctor played before I would ever consider taking a lesson from him or her. I sure wouldn't take a lesson from a 20 handicap golfer if I was wanting to improve my golf game. I would think most instructors would want to show video of their speed. I mean is does relate to what their selling doesn't it?

I ditto that. I stole most of my game from watching & playing a retired gentleman that was well past his prime & would not teach me, a 13 yr. old boy, anything. But, I stole it all from him because he knew it all, even if he wore fairly thick glasses & was a little hunched over.

We undersatnd the different variables of age. The expertise is still visible even if not at warp speed.

With Sincerity,
 
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I personally know top level professionals that were really messed up taking lessons

I think most understand that some who teach are way past their prime. I also understand that not all players had a chance to get their top speed on video, myself included. For those there is word of mouth though. I personally would like to know the speed the instuctor played before I would ever consider taking a lesson from him or her. I sure wouldn't take a lesson from a 20 handicap golfer if I was wanting to improve my golf game. I would think most instructors would want to show video of their speed. I mean is does relate to what their selling doesn't it?

yes, there's several levels of understanding pocket billiards. I have referred to this as a "7 Layer Cake".

To work with beginners is one level, but to bring someone from a 2 to a 5 is another level, on up 5 more levels. The 7th one is most sensitive. imho

Taking someone from a strong amateur to a professional is a different story because it takes the experience of doing it yourself. A lot of techniques that are used by Champion players can not be explained by even advanced instructors because they can only recognize what they're familiar with.

I personally know top level professionals that were really messed up by going to advanced instructors. The problem was they tried to change something that didn't need to be tampered with.

This is the the risk someone takes at the highest levels or learning and that's why Top Pros are very careful about who they listen to and learn from.
 
sammmy,

Are you saying that those two(2) can't play?

Regards,



im not saying that and i believe Stan finished in the top 20 at the us open last year or the year before, i am unsure about the year? I can see Stan match up with Cj even at this point in time. I just see CJ drooling at the mouth at this bet is all :)
 
yes, there's several levels of understanding pocket billiards. I have referred to this as a "7 Layer Cake".

To work with beginners is one level, but to bring someone from a 2 to a 5 is another level, on up 5 more levels. The 7th one is most sensitive. imho

Taking someone from a strong amateur to a professional is a different story because it takes the experience of doing it yourself. A lot of techniques that are used by Champion players can not be explained by even advanced instructors because they can only recognize what they're familiar with.

I personally know top level professionals that were really messed up by going to advanced instructors. The problem was they tried to change something that didn't need to be tampered with.

This is the the risk someone takes at the highest levels or learning and that's why Top Pros are very careful about who they listen to and learn from.

I have a golf buddy that was playing to a 5 handicap and took some lessons from a cerified pga instructor and it ruined his game. He couldn't break 80 and finally just quit. I have played with the instructor many times and he can play good and very bad at times. I was playing with him one day and he shanked the ball on atleast 6 holes. I think he's a good teacher for beginners, but not for advanced players. Just because they are pga cerified doesn't mean they play or teach at a top level. If your a A player or better, I would make sure I picked the right instructor.
 
Not everyone will agree with this nor should they. imho

I have a golf buddy that was playing to a 5 handicap and took some lessons from a cerified pga instructor and it ruined his game. He couldn't break 80 and finally just quit. I have played with the instructor many times and he can play good and very bad at times. I was playing with him one day and he shanked the ball on atleast 6 holes. I think he's a good teacher for beginners, but not for advanced players. Just because they are pga cerified doesn't mean they play or teach at a top level. If your a A player or better, I would make sure I picked the right instructor.

Yes, the player I referred to was in the top 10 in the country and decided to go to one of these "certified Instructors". They started working on how his eyes went back and forth between the cue ball and the object ball and even though "it sounded good" it permanently messed him up.

I would say if you decide to learn from someone, make sure they at least played better than you do at some point in their life. The only exception may be learning something just on the "mental side" or a specific aspect of the game. Not everyone will agree with this nor should they. imho
 
I personally know top level professionals that were really messed up by going to advanced instructors. The problem was they tried to change something that didn't need to be tampered with.

Now this is something I can definitely agree with. You don't fix something just because it looks wrong to you; you find what is really wrong, and you fix that.

I don't think the "it takes one to know one" mentality has to apply to instructing, however. Any astute individual can observe and analyze all the things a champion player does in being a consistent winner, and then show a less consistent player the areas where his own game differs from that of the champion. (Note: I'm not talking about the kind of things that probably shouldn't be tampered with - like mechanics.)

Roger
 
Just curious, will the instructors tournament proposed be seeded?

Yes, of course there will be ABP/BCA/WPA/WPBA/PGA/NFL/NBA/PGA seeding because everyone will agree...of course....and no one will even argue.....:wink: ...of course
 
I've been teaching for most of my life in one way, shape, or form. I was giving tennis lessons when I was 12-15, Martial Arts Training for 24 years (2nd Degree Instructor)
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Way off topic question for you CJ, but maybe some other AZBers might be curious as well:

Have you on one (or several) occasions ever had to use your martial arts skills as a result of a dustup in or outside a pool venue?

(I remember overhearing Danny D. (formerly a top prizefighter) talking about a money player foolish enough to test his patience via loud, goading remarks, and that it was settled in about 2 seconds.)

Forgive my curiosity, CJ.

Arnaldo
 
this might be a good time to point out the difference between a good "instructor" and a good "coach".
 
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Way off topic question for you CJ, but maybe some other AZBers might be curious as well:

Have you on one (or several) occasions ever had to use your martial arts skills as a result of a dustup in or outside a pool venue?

(I remember overhearing Danny D. (formerly a top prizefighter) talking about a money player foolish enough to test his patience via loud, goading remarks, and that it was settled in about 2 seconds.)

Forgive my curiosity, CJ.
Arnaldo
I don't know CJ personally but we have many mutual acquaintances.
One of them told me that in the old PCA days that a guy got on CJ's
case and wouldn't stop. Apparently CJ has a long fuse but he finally
had enough...he jumped a railing like a gazelle and landed in front of
the offender...the man found other things to talk about and then
remembered he had to go visit his aunt...:eek::)

Sorry, CJ, you don't have to respond, but it made me quite fond of you.

My friend Danny D had a much shorter fuse...that man would have been
toast by the second sentence.
 
become a pool playing machine

------------------------------------------------------------------
Way off topic question for you CJ, but maybe some other AZBers might be curious as well:

Have you on one (or several) occasions ever had to use your martial arts skills as a result of a dustup in or outside a pool venue?

(I remember overhearing Danny D. (formerly a top prizefighter) talking about a money player foolish enough to test his patience via loud, goading remarks, and that it was settled in about 2 seconds.)

Forgive my curiosity, CJ.

Arnaldo

I got into the martial arts as a result of getting stabbed twice one night, robbed and nearly killed. At that point in my life (23 years old) I had already been stuck up at gun point 3 times so I knew the "world" could be a dangerous place.

I ran CJ's Billiard Palace and Carsons LIVE for 19 years and took part in breaking up probably 20-30 fights of different magnitudes. I'm not sure how, but I never got hit and got through that part of my life unscathed, even though I had to "subdue" a few people in different ways.

Martial Arts taught me a lot about the body and how it moves and coordinates through weapons movements. Pool, to me is like a martial arts form and I am more particular than many instuctors about feet position, arm/shoulder/wrist positions and how to set them properly in the pre shot routine.

I have a "connection calibration" technique that is directly from martial arts to make sure every part of your body connects to the "Line of the Shot". My objective as a player is to become a pool playing machine and to do this it requires an educated understanding of body mechanics.
 
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