Who's the best you ever played for the cash???

[poolplayer2093]

@poolplayer2093,

hm, how Ralf Souquet can play at his level.......-Ralf never hustled. I know him since he was about 14 years old-and he is still on of the most serious guys i met in the poo-scene. And he is the best example, that there is no need to hustle for learning to play good and successful billiards.

I also played for cash- but just about for one year or so-bc at that time i ve had much time to spend at the table. But i swear i really didn t like it very much. Too many situations happened, where it was close to get into trouble. If it s just about competition where excellent players just want to mess with each other it can be a great thing. And the stories about *hustling* are always nice to talk about. But i saw too often the bad stuff around it- stuff where i really could get angry. When horsestakers trying to provoke he opponent with stupid offenses or just lame comments.

I was many times *live* around, when young Oliver Ortmann and other well know germany guys played for cash- this was all nice to watch- even when Bustamente came to germany as a totally unknown guy- and shoot the lights out in *my* town. That was very impressive.

Stop now telling tales here, sry^^

on topic: a guy, who was european champion wanted to play me- he was extremly arrogant. My friend (who has had enough money ) told me to play him and i said *No!* bc the guy was usualy to strong to earn money from him. Then my friend said, that he wants to play 9-Ball til 7...and i just to 4....then i ran very fast to the car to get my cue . We played always 3 sets , each 300 $ a set. After i won first 3- he *just* gave me 2 til 7. and so on. Later we played equal and he was never able to get in front. All in all it was for sure a good feeling that i beat him also when we played equal- and also nice because he was so arrogant to give me this huge handicap . He destroyed his cue at the end.....so it was really an interesting night with about 14 hours of playing- and *we* won about 4 k dollars. That was much money in the early 90 s


But like i said- i don t like hustling for myself- i prefer to play pool because i love it- and also love it to teach and give my knowledge away.

lg from germany,

Ingo

i didn't say hustle. don't get it confused. playing for money and hustling aren't the same thing.

Ralf Souquet is one of the few individuals on the planet that can play pool at the highest level. add not gambling to that and he becomes even more unique.

for your average player playing for money is the only way they'll get to see exactly what they can do. it forces people to play the right patterns and focus more on what it is they're doing

i understand that things are different in other parts of the world. pool seems to be real big in europe. over here in america it's starving. the only real way to learn to play over here is to gamble and see what good players do when it's crunch time.

you don't want to get into action that's your business. don't go around telling people they'll be the best player they can be without gambling because it just isn't true.

without gambling you'll get people not focusing and trying to do shots that they wouldn't dare try if they were playing for something. then of course you'll end up falling apart when they try to play in a high pressure situation

 

[Ratta]

K, example

i used to know a very nice guy (but his psychicial condition not the best ,even at his best time). For me this guy is still one of the best straight-pool players i ever saw (including champions etc!!!) He ran high-runs...amazing. Against me for sure 2 times a 326, and a 384 (in one week!). He had a big heart, was friendly etc.- But he never had really to work, or have to take care for himself. His parents really thought he would make his living with billiards-and he thought so, too. I tried to take influence and told him to learn a job-then he can try it for some years. I was right from the beginning sure that he wouldn t have the mental strength to be able to play for money...because he never earned own money..and never really had money. So like always from everywhere some so called *new friends* came to take him to other cities to gamble and bet on him. At least i must say. that this time destroyed him- later he became an alcoholic, and also trouble with pills etc. -

I played with him also in team- and remember about tournaments where he played averages some world-class players can dream about. 1 tournament he played an average over 30 (over 3 days)- including safety-shots!!!- he didn t lost one game there.......and he was already TOTALLY drunken(how just a alcoholic can be, with about 25 wodka longdrinks intus).

So poolplayer2093: I really understand what guys like you re talking about-and i accept it *a bit*. But now perhaps you know, why i have a bit different point of view to it. If you aren t a totally egoist or having the needed mental strength....you re never able to play for money. And you need very good friends for the bad times- and bad times will come up so often when you start gambling....like many can t imagine.

Didn t want to become to poetic or sensible

lg
Ingo

 

[ironman]

The best I ever played though was some guy down around New Orleans. I was really afraid when I walked into that no name bar on the lost highway. I had heard that this guy had beaten Johnny Archer and scared Keith McCready off the week before. I was young and cocky and wanted to try him some though.

So I walked into that no name road house looking for the unknown champion and there he was. I asked him his name and he said just call me "friend". I said are you the guy who busted Johnny Archer last week and he just give me a knowing smirk and said "Johnny who?".

So I had to guess that this was the guy I was looking for and I asked him to play some and he said sure what do I want to play for and I said $100 a game. He pulls back and says well that's mighty rich for this place how about $10 a game. I was disappointed but I came to see this guy's game so I said yes.

And man could he play. He ran out 27 racks on me at $10 a game before I got a shot. I was so nervous that I drilled the 7 ball right into the rubber. When he got to 30 ahead I paid off and said I'd like to bet a little higher if he didn't mind. He said sure and I said $50 and he agreed.

Well I got a Dr.Pepper and calmed down and got up and ran seven racks to get my 300 back and get a game up. He wins the next game and I said bet a hundred and he agrees, obviously a little on tilt now.

I won ten of the next 12 games and was a grand in front and he asks me to play for $500 a game. I said sure and won another five games before he pulled up.

Grudgingly he says to me that I was the toughest match he ever faced. He says usually he only plays hustlers who prey on weaker players.

I looked him straight in the eye and said "really Friend? so do I" and walked out with the money.

Never did find out who that unknown champion was. I may never know. I asked Johnny Archer about it but he can't remember ever losing to some unknown champion out in the sticks in southern Louisiana.

That guy was great though, for $10 a game I think he would have busted me in about two years when I would have ran out of bullets.

Anyone know who I might be talking about? Some completely unknown guy who plays better than Archer and who reportedly busted a bunch of good players? I'd sure like to know who I beat that night.

27 racks??? I know who it was,,,,,neal morrison!!!

 

[real bartram]

Not sure if this thread has been thrown about before. If not, let's do it.

Who's the best player you ever gambled with?

Mine has to be Corey Deuel. Just back into the game after a 15 year layoff. Got to be a solid B-B+ player before I quit. At the time, I played Corey, who was around 14. I was getting the 8-ball in a race to 9 for $350 playin 9-ball.

Set went hill-hill when I fired a jacked up 7-ball in with a duck 8-ball waiting. Only time he and I ever played.

Certainly don't think I could play him with 8 anymore...LOL

i played dippy

 

[Brozif]

All I can say is Dave Matlock on a bar box!! No, it didn't go so well for me!! Race to 5, he won coin toss and ran out the set!! Thanks Dave!!

Also Scott Frost on a bar box!! Same result!! Apparently the only weight I should ever ask for is...the break!!

 

[poolplayer2093]

for anyone who cares my buddy Pat used to give tony chohan the 8 ball for the cheese!
that's before he started playing like a champion though.

 

[dardusm]

playing for nothing you'll never get to see their best game. or yours for that matter

I agree with you to an extent. I've seen players in my area whose game really jumped up when they started gambling all the time. Now, is that because they were gambling or because they were playing all the time? It's easier to play when you are gambling so a player can log in much more hours of focused play.

The other side of the coin. There was another very good player from my area that rarely gambled. He was a tournament beast beating several top pro's in tournaments over the years. I would play him for practice (no gambling) and he would still play his very best. He practiced and played the same way. All out. It became ingrained in his character. So if you can make yourself practice like you would play for money, you would be focused everytime you play.

 

[Roger Long]

I agree with you to an extent. I've seen players in my area whose game really jumped up when they started gambling all the time. Now, is that because they were gambling or because they were playing all the time? It's easier to play when you are gambling so a player can log in much more hours of focused play.

The other side of the coin. There was another very good player from my area that rarely gambled. He was a tournament beast beating several top pro's in tournaments over the years. I would play him for practice (no gambling) and he would still play his very best. He practiced and played the same way. All out. It became ingrained in his character. So if you can make yourself practice like you would play for money, you would be focused everytime you play.

This is a very good post. Gambling IS one way to learn to play well, but certainly not the only way.

Roger

 

[ShootingArts]

motivation

This is a very good post. Gambling IS one way to learn to play well, but certainly not the only way.

Roger

It all comes down to motivation. Some are so self motivated that winning is enough reward. Some gamble so there is a reward for winning and a punishment for losing. I played somebody in a social setting, no bet, bang balls mode. It became obvious that they felt it was very important to win. Since it meant something to them, then it meant something to me and my game tightened considerably. They are another person that I played that will remain nameless. They did go on to have a pretty good pro career and owned a pool room last I knew.

Hu

 

[kamtile]

Was that at Bob's Billiards or Bellflower?

I remember Blake, if he was that little curley haired redheaded kid.
He hung out with Australian Pete. I used to call him "Nubs", he, he.

Australian Pete, there is a blast from the past.

 

[JB Cases]

i didn't say hustle. don't get it confused. playing for money and hustling aren't the same thing.

Ralf Souquet is one of the few individuals on the planet that can play pool at the highest level. add not gambling to that and he becomes even more unique.

for your average player playing for money is the only way they'll get to see exactly what they can do. it forces people to play the right patterns and focus more on what it is they're doing

i understand that things are different in other parts of the world. pool seems to be real big in europe. over here in america it's starving. the only real way to learn to play over here is to gamble and see what good players do when it's crunch time.

you don't want to get into action that's your business. don't go around telling people they'll be the best player they can be without gambling because it just isn't true.

without gambling you'll get people not focusing and trying to do shots that they wouldn't dare try if they were playing for something. then of course you'll end up falling apart when they try to play in a high pressure situation

Well, I guess this is now going to turn into another which way to get better thread.

The fact of the matter is that you do not have to gamble to become a high level player. Not at all.

The idea that you will not play "correctly" if you don't gamble is not a good one.

The fact is that when you gamble against another player you are focused on that particular player's game and you adapt your game to theirs. If they are weak then you can take more risks and play lower percentage shots knowing that they are unlikely to get out. If they are strong then you adjust your game accordingly.

Also you know that if you blow a game or two or a set you can keep playing until you are out of money. You also don't need to bring out your A game right away.

In tournament play, as Ralf Souquet told me, you have to bring your A game right out of the gate. You don't have time to size up your opponent and adjust your play, you have to play your best and play right from the first game on.

Focus does not come as a result of playing for money. Focus comes as a result of self-discipline. Some people can highly focused when playing for nothing and others tell themselves that they "need" to play for something in order to focus.

 

[cuesmith]

Well, I guess this is now going to turn into another which way to get better thread.

The fact of the matter is that you do not have to gamble to become a high level player. Not at all.

The idea that you will not play "correctly" if you don't gamble is not a good one.

The fact is that when you gamble against another player you are focused on that particular player's game and you adapt your game to theirs. If they are weak then you can take more risks and play lower percentage shots knowing that they are unlikely to get out. If they are strong then you adjust your game accordingly.

Also you know that if you blow a game or two or a set you can keep playing until you are out of money. You also don't need to bring out your A game right away.

In tournament play, as Ralf Souquet told me, you have to bring your A game right out of the gate. You don't have time to size up your opponent and adjust your play, you have to play your best and play right from the first game on.

Focus does not come as a result of playing for money. Focus comes as a result of self-discipline. Some people can highly focused when playing for nothing and others tell themselves that they "need" to play for something in order to focus.

I don't know if I agree with you on this one John. In one-pocket, at least, I feel that if you don't pay a penalty for taking "flyers" you'll keep trying them. When you have to dig in your pocket and pay the piper because you took the high risk shots, you learn pretty quickly the smart way to play one-hole. I don't think this applies nearly as much for other games, but if you want to really be a good one-pocket player I do think gambling is the best way to improve your thought process!

 

[houmatroy]

Kermit the frog !

Damn lil booger made every jump shot on da table ! :thumbup:

 

[JB Cases]

I don't know if I agree with you on this one John. In one-pocket, at least, I feel that if you don't pay a penalty for taking "flyers" you'll keep trying them. When you have to dig in your pocket and pay the piper because you took the high risk shots, you learn pretty quickly the smart way to play one-hole. I don't think this applies nearly as much for other games, but if you want to really be a good one-pocket player I do think gambling is the best way to improve your thought process!

As with every rule there are exceptions.

I have ALMOST paid enough for the "don't take flyers" lessons.

I'd agree with you completely if it were say 25 years ago. But now there is enough instruction out there that a serious one pocket student COULD learn the proper way to play without having to gamble.

The 8 hours of free one pocket on YouTube featuring Efren/Daulton Joyner, John Macias, Parica etc...are enough to teach anyone who is serious about one pocket enough to make them into a capable player.

I don't disagree that gambling helps a player to find their level and gives them a measure to work against. But I absolutely disagree that it's a must to become a good or great player.

I wish the Chinese knew enough about one pocket not to take the flyers. Every time I play them they shoot the backwards off angle shots and blow up the stack. The only problem is that they NAIL the shots and run 8 and out :-( It's the only move they know. The only way to beat them is to superglue them to the back of the stack EVERY time. aaaaarrggrh.