Why aren't cue makers more adventurous or original in their designs?

I have a few thoughts on this. It might seem like I'm coming off a bit harsh, but that's not my intention. I'm not trying to offend you. I'm just giving you both barrels about my opinion on this subject.

1. Many cuemakers continue to build veneer point cues out of tradition. A sense of tradition is very important in all walks of life. Tradition must be respected. Why do we continue to look upon the US flag and cover our hearts while singing the National Anthem? Are we forced to by law? Or, is it a tradition that we choose to respect because we know the sacrifice and hardships paid by our forefathers (and current military personnel) to protect our way of life? Of course, innovation is extremely important, too. Without it, we'd still be walking around with clubs, wearing bearskins, and living in caves. Just because something is new doesn't mean it's instantly better.

2. Being in a customer service industry, we cuemakers have to please our clientele. The overwhelming majority of pool players want those "clone" cues, as you describe them. If not, we'd stop making them overnight. Just because you dislike veneer points, doesn't mean the next 100 customers do. Why should we cuemakers spend large amounts of time and money on something "unique" simply to be different, and watch it sit in the display case? Of course, if cuemakers want to build something else out of a sense of innovation, that's their personal choice.

3. If you want to design your own truly unique custom cue, I happily invite you plunk down some of your hard-earned money and have it built by one of the many, many quality cuemakers that hang out here on AZ.

4. Finally, if you think we're doing such a bad job in the creativity department, try walking a few miles in our shoes: fork out somewhere between $10,000 to $50,000 for machinery and materials, work your butt off for a few years, learn through trial and error which only costs a few more thousand dollars, and finally create a cue you're truly proud of... only to have some guy tell you "it's a clone of 10,000 cues before it with a few subtle tweaks".

To quote Jack Nicholson from "A Few Good Men": I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!

Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk. Sorry for going off on a rant.
 
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CreeDo said:
We're getting there.

Chuck: you definitely are on the right track for original materials. That pink curly maple and elk antler? Pretty cool.

Chop: THAT's what I'm talking about. That steampunk cue. It's hideous, but dammit... nobody else in the pool hall has it.

Legend: I'd only heard of them a little.
You ain't kidding.
What.
what?!
wow..
...and the prices are very reasonable. Nobody needs to know you only spent $25,000.


RealLife: Points, rings, and irish linen. Good thing Hendrix was around to keep me awake :)

DPP: That's pretty good. Still 50 Shades of Brown but I'd still want to own one.

3kushn: This one dieckmann cue is BUTT WILD. Does he have any pictures of finished cues with full varnish etc? These all look like they were used to dig up tomato plants.

Nobody's brought up the Watchez Cue yet.
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These are close to done. He does have finished cues but his site is down.
 

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Creativity's limit is what the market will bear. If the market will absorb all of what you can build then you can be as creative as you like. If you're a hobbyist whose life expenses are covered in some other way then you can afford to give away you time. If you're in business to make a profit then you have to make comprimises to satisfy the market.

That said there are a lot of cue makers out there who go well beyond the tradtional. You just have to find them. Thomas Wayne is famous for his many non-tradtional cues for example and has been since the 90s.
 
Creativity is an individual issue. And there are certain well defined design styles that carry over from the original cue makers that are responsible for specific design patterns. George Balabushka & Gus Szamboti are responsible for certain what are now considered traditional patterns. Tad Kohara & Ginacue are cue brands that are very well known for their own specific design patterns.

Cue makers such as Richard Black, Bill Schick, Thomas Wayne are certain cue makers who have made traditional style cues, but who are more notable for their own unique highly creative cue designs. And other cue makers are available that will work with customers to create highly unique cue designs, as long as the customer can also afford the cost of uniquneness.

Traditional design patterns have their place in the marketplace, just as modern patterns have their fan bases. There is no right or wrong. You simply have to understand what kind of design patterns you prefer for yourself, and accept the differences for what other people prefer.

But I also agree that some cue makers could maybe use some help in the design arena. If for no other reason than to help stretch out their variety of cue offerings.

I myself have created nearly 100 cue designs over the years of what I would like to see myself. And some of my designs are reinterpretations of very classic patterns but using totally different combinations of materials from what you would expect. Yet when I have pitched some designs to different cue makers I have gotten a bit of a brush off.

If there are cue makers looking at wanting to expand their level of design offerings, and have time or creativity issues of their own, then they should find a design partner that they can work with to assist in that effort. My own design services are available for cue makers interested in working with an independent designer.

Just PM your possible interest for design services.
 
LPCUSTOMCUES said:
I build what the customer designs.
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Lee is correct. I ordered a traditional cue from him that he built to my specifications. But there is another side to it. I ordered a cue from Lee because he has a history of building such great looking traditional cues. He showed me pictures last week of my cue and I am excited about receiving it. It matches my tastes. He delivered what I requested.

There is nothing wrong with wanting traditional looking cues any more than there is for wanting wild new designs. Custom cue making is about providing the customer what (s)he wants.

I appreciate the custom work of OCC or Indian Larry (RIP). But my bike is a Road King and I am happy with my choice.

Greg
 
Any love for these orginal designs? Just got a newsletter in my inbox with a link to Fury Cues so I found these and thought of this thread.

http://fury-cues.com/thecues-mz.html

http://fury-cues.com/fups11.html

http://fury-cues.com/fujs03.html

http://fury-cues.com/fukf02.html

http://fury-cues.com/fuev07.html

Seems like "production" cues like Mcdermott and Viking and Meucci get no love for their creativity when in fact they have operated outside the traditional box for 30 years.

McDermott's Wildlife series comes to mind. Viking's wrap around points. Meucci's Taj Mahal and many other cool designs.

This cue was done when a lot of today's cue makers were kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkZ6YzhvLoU
 
I think what has been demonstrated is that the creativity is quite alive and quite well.




.
 
Roadie said:
Any love for these orginal designs? Just got a newsletter in my inbox with a link to Fury Cues so I found these and thought of this thread.

Seems like "production" cues like Mcdermott and Viking and Meucci get no love for their creativity when in fact they have operated outside the traditional box for 30 years.

McDermott's Wildlife series comes to mind. Viking's wrap around points. Meucci's Taj Mahal and many other cool designs.
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Not my cup of tea. Floating points are not my thing and I've yet to see a storybook cue that I've liked, whether done by a production shop or custom maker.

But that's just me. Funny thing is I've seen some storybook cases I've thought were cool, but I just don't care for it on a cue.
 
jschelin, no offense taken! I like how you equated building dull cues with supporting our troops and loving america, that was fantastic! Except now I feel like a real commie for wanting non-brown cues :(

As for the whole argument that goes... "well if you don't like it let's see you build or buy a better one"...

If the world worked like that, nobody would dare criticise movies, books, video games, cars, tv shows, or anything else they couldn't learn to make in a weekend out of shit they had lying around their garage.

DoubleD: come on, when the guy made that cue he 100% HAD to expect someone would find it ugly. He's a grown-up. It's a given that something that extreme will not be everyone's cup of tea.

Any designer or artist has to understand that. If he reads my comment and tears spring to his eyes and his lip starts quivering, he can just go back to that thread where he posted pics of it and read the thirty or fifty compliments in there.

Cuebuddy: That's adorable, for real. And it's practical too! In any Hard Times where they built counters exactly at cue height, and then place the tables 2 feet from them... you need a cue like that to make shots off the rail.

David: you have a way with words and articulate your points really well. I thought "I bet he's got some interesting cue designs" so I googled your username, found your myspace page.
I... I don't know what to say.

Roadie: I kinda liked this one. Not 100% sold on that wrap. But yeah, that swirl design in neat.

The one with flames though, kinda tacky. I don't know if I can get behind the ones with printed decals, even though it opens up a lot of design possibilities. I guess I've been conditioned to see those as cheap looking. I think colored wood has an interesting texture, and just the other day I noticed the tiny weave pattern you see in phenolic linen/canvas/ferrules.
 
CreeDo said:
they're calling it a panda but it looks like a fox to me. That wrap looks like a car seat cover maybe, or some 80's upholstery.
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Yeah that doesn't look like any panda I know. ????????????????

Chinese people ought to be able to get pandas right.
 
63Kcode said:
Carefull what you ask for! This is what can happen with over imagination and a cuemaker willing to do it.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=202930&highlight=junk+yard

larry
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See, initially that cue is hilarious. I was dying when I saw the sharpie. But you can turn a joke concept like that into something amazing. You see clothes that are ripped and aged on purpose... typefaces that look like handwriting... why not a ghetto fabulous shop class cue? With the right person doing it, I can imagine someone scratching their head and thinking "Actually, that looks really cool."

Roadie: Maybe it's a Red Panda? They have narrow little foxy faces.
 
I build a lot of cues that are outside of the norm in design. But the reasons most cuemakers build cues within the norm are they are easier to build in many cases, they appeal to a wider audience and therefore are often easier to find a buyer for. Take some of the old school style cue makers who build a four point cue with stainless joint, delrin butt plate and simple inlay designs that get thousands of dollars for them. Why would they want to build anything else since they bring good money for minimal work? I have built some Native American designs that have been really slow to sell yet they get more compliments than the more traditional designs, yet seem to be slower sellers. I built a traditional 4 point cue with veneers, ivory joint and ivory butt plate and notched ivory diamonds with lizard wrap for a local player. I have had more locals tell me that is one of the nicest cues they have ever seen than I can count. Yet I consider that cue middle of the road myself. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. And most cuemakers want to sell cues, so points and simple inlays sell. Fancy often does not sell for enough to justify the effort.
 
CreeDo said:
See, initially that cue is hilarious. I was dying when I saw the sharpie. But you can turn a joke concept like that into something amazing. You see clothes that are ripped and aged on purpose... typefaces that look like handwriting... why not a ghetto fabulous shop class cue? With the right person doing it, I can imagine someone scratching their head and thinking "Actually, that looks really cool."

Roadie: Maybe it's a Red Panda? They have narrow little foxy faces.
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I could go with that, they are so cute.
 
cueman said:
I build a lot of cues that are outside of the norm in design. But the reasons most cuemakers build cues within the norm are they are easier to build in many cases, they appeal to a wider audience and therefore are often easier to find a buyer for. Take some of the old school style cue makers who build a four point cue with stainless joint, delrin butt plate and simple inlay designs that get thousands of dollars for them. Why would they want to build anything else since they bring good money for minimal work? I have built some Native American designs that have been really slow to sell yet they get more compliments than the more traditional designs, yet seem to be slower sellers. I built a traditional 4 point cue with veneers, ivory joint and ivory butt plate and notched ivory diamonds with lizard wrap for a local player. I have had more locals tell me that is one of the nicest cues they have ever seen than I can count. Yet I consider that cue middle of the road myself. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. And most cuemakers want to sell cues, so points and simple inlays sell. Fancy often does not sell for enough to justify the effort.
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I can't argue with that logic. If simple sells, I guess there's no justification to bust your hump doing anything else. In a way, building something like the snake cue mentioned in the very first post... it's almost a losing proposition. You put so much work into it, you need a ton of money just to make it worth... most buyers won't go for it, even for a moderate price... and you might just fall in love with your own work and have a tough time parting with it.
 
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