Why CTE is silly

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My experience with Hal, through multiple, long phone conversations and numerous e-mails and forum exchanges, is similar.

He is a great story teller, and he has lots of great stories. His "aiming systems" descriptions are also fun to listen to, and his presentation style would make the best snake-oil salesmen jealous. He is definitely talented in the story-telling and marketing arenas. However, as I checked things out, asked more questions, and followed up for more details, he was not able to address some extremely important questions. He also became very defensive and even hostile at times.

Complete descriptions and analysis of both fractional-ball and align-and-pivot "aiming systems" can be found here:

After reviewing this stuff, people can judge for themselves whether or not Hal deserves "aiming system genius" status or not. He certainly has "genius" status in my book in the story-telling arena.

Regards,
Dave

lfigueroa said:
SpiderWebComm said:
He only went on the road with arguably one of the best players of all time. He's prob the last living guy who hung with Greenleaf at that level. Think he didn't get knowledge? He only has a few interesting things? I've learned so much from Hal over the 10 or so times we've spent time together. You're either not paying attention or never spent real time with him.
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I have to agree with Mike.

In my conversation with Hal, he initially launched into his spiel about his aiming system. I let him go, but after about 10 minutes I started asking questions. It didn't go so well for Hal. He sputtered and had to back pedal on several assertions he had made.

Don't get me wrong. Hal is a very, very nice guy. And perhaps traveling with Greenleaf he did picked up a couple of things when Greenleaf wasn't in the bag (which, by most accounts, wouldn't have been very often). But great insights? Doubtful.

Maybe it's because I've been around the game longer than you and did catch the tail end of the post Hustler era, but I recall going to places like The Palace and Cochran's in San Francisco late at night and playing and watching many of the old-timers. For a couple of bucks a game you couple play almost any of them there, sitting on the rail, and they would regale you with countless systems, and tips about the game. It's where I first "learned" a number of them, like the ferrule system, the light system, the ghost table, and the spot on the wall. Old time pool rooms were filled with guys that had all kinds of arcane knowledge. And a few of the things they knew were actually right. But, much of it, nowadays, has been proven to be wrong -- even little rules-of-thumb that Mosconi -- arguably the greatest player of all time -- taught in his books.

Hal is a great old-timer. Just think of the stories he could have shared with all of us about the golden era of pool, if he had chosen to do so. Instead, we got half-baked ideas about aiming systems.
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Bob Jewett said:
Google, google, google.....

Are you sure they're not talking about "Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy?" Which I suppose comes from repeatedly banging your head against the wall and describes some of these threads pretty well. CTE causes CTE.
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Ha ha! After reading many of these CTE posts, it is enough to make one engage in self trepanation. Observe:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepanning
 

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Neil said:
I'll just speak for the first link right now. Many of you either don't want to learn, just criticize, or you have trouble with reading comprehension. What's one of the first things Hal said? You must read it at least ten times to truly understand it. If you just look at the numbers, it will be nonsense.

All you naysayers are stuck on the numbers. Just like he said you would be. You fail to see the forest for the trees. The system DOES work, and it works great. Keep on believing that it doesn't, it gives the rest of us an edge over you.:grin:
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The reason I posted those links was to show that I have been doing research on CTE in order to understand it. So far, these two links have been the best I've found to help be do so.

Now, I do not say CTE does not work.........at least in your head.

Based on the text about all shots are 15, 30, or 45 and you just aim one edge of the CB to one of three areas on the OB, how does CTE fit into this shot:

CueTable Help



It is a rail first cut shot where low inside english on the CB nicks the ball and rolls it into the upper corner.
 
duckie said:
The reason I posted those links was to show that I have been doing research on CTE in order to understand it. So far, these two links have been the best I've found to help be do so.

Now, I do not say CTE does not work.........at least in your head.

Based on the text about all shots are 15, 30, or 45 and you just aim one edge of the CB to one of three areas on the OB, how does CTE fit into this shot:

CueTable Help



It is a rail first cut shot where low inside english on the CB nicks the ball and rolls it into the upper corner.
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Aim the right edge of the cb to the left edge of the ob. Then, put right english on it, and adjust as necessary for your speed and your cue. The aiming part works just fine. No aiming system is going to make up for english because you have different types of cloth, different speeds, different deflection and squirt, ect. Aiming systems are for no english. Any english you use you have to compensate by experience.

For me, on my table, I aim edge of cb to one quarter ob, pivot to center of cb and juice it up. I don't make it everytime, but I can make it. So, even on this shot, you are still initially aiming to one of the three spots- center, one quarter, or edge.
 
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JB Cases said:
Lovely people I have to ditch this thread. So if you are waiting on a response from me it won't be coming.

I like doing these little challenges to myself so if I post in this thread again I will send GetMeThere a cue case with the secret diagram to CTE lasered on it. ;-)
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Poor ol' John Barton is probably about to blow a gasket with all the hot air (I mean this in a playful sort of way) he's been holding back.

C'mon John, just send GetMeThere the damn case and jump back into the fray! It's wa-a-a-ay more entertaining with you involved!!!

Maniac
 
duckie said:
... how does CTE fit into this shot: ... It is a rail first cut shot where low inside english on the CB nicks the ball and rolls it into the upper corner.
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Or for that matter this 100-degree cut shot.

Relative to CTE, I can aim this shot for a half-ball shot on either side of the ball depending on the cue and speed. That's not the way I usually do it, but it's possible.
 
Neil said:
Aim the right edge of the cb to the left edge of the ob. Then, put right english on it, and adjust as necessary for your speed and your cue. The aiming part works just fine. No aiming system is going to make up for english because you have different types of cloth, different speeds, different deflection and squirt, ect. Aiming systems are for no english. Any english you use you have to compensate by experience.

For me, on my table, I aim edge of cb to one quarter ob, pivot to center of cb and juice it up. I don't make it everytime, but I can make it. So, even on this shot, you are still initially aiming to one of the three spots- center, one quarter, or edge.
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In order to pivot to the center of the CB, you must have started off of center....by how much? 1/2 tip; full tip...or more?:confused:
 
Neil said:
For me, on my table, I aim edge of cb to one quarter ob, pivot to center of cb and juice it up...
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Sorry, that's not complete--and probably wouldn't meet Hal's specifications: You forgot the "Abracadabre....Ally--OOP!"

Most CTE videos I've seen have included that incantation--although it's usually spoken under the breath... :D
 
GetMeThere said:
Sorry, that's not complete--and probably wouldn't meet Hal's specifications: You forgot the "Abracadabre....Ally--OOP!"

Most CTE videos I've seen have included that incantation--although it's usually spoken under the breath... :D
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Why does cte bother you so much?It just another way of aiming
its really not that big of a deal you know.(?)


(You know i will miss these craizy threads though.)
 
8pack said:
Why does cte bother you so much?It just another way of aiming
its really not that big of a deal you know.(?)


(You know i will miss these craizy threads though.)
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1) It doesn't bother me.

2) It's not a "way of aiming." It's, in fact, best described as...."nothing." One person's fantasy.

3) My deal is this: I simply am puzzled by the phenomenon of people shutting off their critical faculties around certain, selected topics. For me it's most obvious with religion: more than 80% of people actually believe there's a sky-daddy watching and judging everything they do--and, even more bizarre, they believe in the sky-daddy their MOMMA told them to believe in, while fully understanding that OTHER people believe in the sky-daddy THEIR MOMMAS told them to believe in; I find that amazing and bizarre. CTE is even MORE bizarre because it doesn't reach central issues like LIFE AND DEATH. I'm sure the "CTE believers" have jobs, or otherwise manage fine in the ordinary world that requires some contact with, and rational interaction with, reality. How they "go blank" on ONE issue really puzzles the hell out of me.

I CAN understand it under certain circumstances: You think your love is WONDERFUL and everyone else sees her as a "name-your-derogatory-feature."

I understand how LOVE can twist somebody's mind into a pretzel, but I don't understand how or why POOL should!
 
GetMeThere said:
I simply am puzzled by the phenomenon of people shutting off their critical faculties around certain, selected topics. For me it's most obvious with religion: more than 80% of people actually believe there's a sky-daddy watching and judging everything they do--and, even more bizarre, they believe in the sky-daddy their MOMMA told them to believe in, while fully understanding that OTHER people believe in the sky-daddy THEIR MOMMAS told them to believe in; I find that amazing and bizarre. CTE is even MORE bizarre because it doesn't reach central issues like LIFE AND DEATH. I'm sure the "CTE believers" have jobs, or otherwise manage fine in the ordinary world that requires some contact with, and rational interaction with, reality. How they "go blank" on ONE issue really puzzles the hell out of me.

I CAN understand it under certain circumstances: You think your love is WONDERFUL and everyone else sees her as a "name-your-derogatory-feature."

I understand how LOVE can twist somebody's mind into a pretzel, but I don't understand how or why POOL should!
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I hope the CTE mob doesn't know where you live. You are really asking for it now. :eek:

Concerned for your health,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
I hope the CTE mob doesn't know where you live. You are really asking for it now. :eek:

Concerned for your health,
Dave
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Yeah, I can just see the headlines: "Man Drawn and Quartered Over Internet Argument about Pool Theory."

And then for background a "University Engineering Professor" and a "Pool Room Operator from Fargo, ND" were interviewed and agreed, saying "Yes, the believers in the theoretical aiming system do have cult-like aspects in their approach to the topic of aiming at pool. An objective analysis of the "system" doesn't yield much--yet there are legions of followers who insist it has helped them become better at aiming pool shots."

Police intend to observe the funeral of the victim's parts that were recovered, and will question mourners with cue-cases slung over their shoulders--particularly, we have been told, cases made by one case designer who...
 
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I should add, btw, that my more confident attitude about what CTE is and isn't is directly due to Neil's at least tacit admission that the bizarre quote of Hal's about what has come to be called CTE is IN FACT exactly what CTE really IS (but you may have to read it ten times....and click your heels three times?).

Before, there was always the possibility that there WAS something more to it--and the quoted piece was just one goofy post that really didn't do it justice.

Now I feel perfectly justified in calling it complete nonsense...and silly.
 
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