why do some cue makers
- Thread starter deanoc
- Start date
Just a member of the cesspool, glad I don't like fancy inlaid cues from arrogant cuemakers.
I've read this thread, and can't really decide if JB and Thomas may be twin brothers or not, suspect they may actually be. Both build great products, both are proud of it the point of arrogance that turns them into idiots at times.
I've read this thread, and can't really decide if JB and Thomas may be twin brothers or not, suspect they may actually be. Both build great products, both are proud of it the point of arrogance that turns them into idiots at times.
Sorry Dean, last post for real. Cubswin, the difference is that I can and do feel shame for the times that I act like a total idiot and I can and do apologize for those times. This isn't one of them.
Thomas Wayne takes people's cues and does not return them. In another context it would be thievery. I can't say that Thomas is a thief because that would mean he took someone's property without their permission. But since the cues were sent to him in hopes that they would be repaired and returned in pristine condition I have to limit my characterization to him simply being a poor cue maker and business man. For that there is proof enough.
And with that I am out of here.
If only the thread had stopped with this post. We would have the answer we need and a lot of hurt feelings could have been avoided.
My opinion is that people build what they want to for a price they want to charge, and people either buy it or they don't. No one has the authority to say any certain style or standard is required or should be expected when it comes to the artistic design of a cue. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
to deano / and to all...
deano: what a Great post. and sri your initial question took on a life of its own, but we all got a lot from it and imho it should not be deleted. i completely agree with Ribdonor, and i hope you don't mind.
to all: my demure mom once quoted to me this from Gertrude Stein: "A rose is a rose is a rose" stating as the meaning as you know - it is a statement of the "Law of Identity". and i asked for an explanation so in the next breath she said: "a schmuck is a schmuck is a schmuck". now i understand her meaning clearly
all the best,
smokey
deano: what a Great post. and sri your initial question took on a life of its own, but we all got a lot from it and imho it should not be deleted. i completely agree with Ribdonor, and i hope you don't mind.
to all: my demure mom once quoted to me this from Gertrude Stein: "A rose is a rose is a rose" stating as the meaning as you know - it is a statement of the "Law of Identity". and i asked for an explanation so in the next breath she said: "a schmuck is a schmuck is a schmuck". now i understand her meaning clearly
all the best,
smokey
Can't argue that.
Can we or should we start a new thread to get back on track?
The inlays dictate if I carve or not. I don't like sharp and round corners mixed in a design. If the design can be drawn so every corner is sharp I carve. If I can't draw it to get sharp I&O ( I&O=inner and outer) corners they'll all be round. I don't think this is lazy, it's a choice the builder has to make so the design flows.
Cutting with a .035" with round corners is lazy when a .015" would look 10 times better. Been there done it.
The Searing thin line diamond is a good example. Carving the outside corners sharp then .02" away the inside corner being round doesn't flow. I think Dennis chose the correct look leaving all corners round. The inlay could of been cut in 4 pieces to achieve sharp I&O and that would flow in my book.
In the Thomas cue pictured it looks like all corners are sharp. Correct me if I'm wrong. The inlays were cut in a way the I&O corners can be sharp. It takes time and experience to achieve a clean quality fit like Thomas has. I'm willing to bet Dennis could execute this with perfection also. Not all builders can so people expecting their cues to be built with this technique might regret their decision. "Round corners look better then glue gaps".
Fillets can be lazy (IMO). We've all used them. Fillets are the simple way to get sharp corners and let the glue hide the excess hole. I don't have the experience to cut perfect inlays yet but I have grown to dislike cutting the hole bigger then needed on purpose. With guys like Tikkler taking super pictures fillets can show up in Ebony.
The inlays dictate if I carve or not. I don't like sharp and round corners mixed in a design. If the design can be drawn so every corner is sharp I carve. If I can't draw it to get sharp I&O ( I&O=inner and outer) corners they'll all be round. I don't think this is lazy, it's a choice the builder has to make so the design flows.
Cutting with a .035" with round corners is lazy when a .015" would look 10 times better. Been there done it.
The Searing thin line diamond is a good example. Carving the outside corners sharp then .02" away the inside corner being round doesn't flow. I think Dennis chose the correct look leaving all corners round. The inlay could of been cut in 4 pieces to achieve sharp I&O and that would flow in my book.
In the Thomas cue pictured it looks like all corners are sharp. Correct me if I'm wrong. The inlays were cut in a way the I&O corners can be sharp. It takes time and experience to achieve a clean quality fit like Thomas has. I'm willing to bet Dennis could execute this with perfection also. Not all builders can so people expecting their cues to be built with this technique might regret their decision. "Round corners look better then glue gaps".
Fillets can be lazy (IMO). We've all used them. Fillets are the simple way to get sharp corners and let the glue hide the excess hole. I don't have the experience to cut perfect inlays yet but I have grown to dislike cutting the hole bigger then needed on purpose. With guys like Tikkler taking super pictures fillets can show up in Ebony.
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I am in the process of making a CNC lathe.
I am just about finished with making a CNC lathe. I will STILL be using V-grooves for the points though. I will just have an X and Y axis control on the lathe.
I plan on making a CNC router as well in the near future for doing some intricate inlay work but I will always use chisels to sharpen the points when necessary. I don't feel that every cuemaker needs to do that, but I feel it's best for me to do so.
Mr. Wayne, I understand how you feel about cue making and how seriously you take it. I also understand that you have an excellent reputation. I also know that the way you have posted about Dennis Searing will have a tendency to put a lot of people off and it makes you seem narcissistic.
Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
Jaden
I love the really small, intricate inlays that BB, and others are doing now with a cnc. Looks killerJust about everything else, should be done in the traditional fashion, especially points, and veneers. Cnc point and veneer inlays make me want to hurl:thumbup: They might as well just use stickers
Very few builders are adding to their cues with a cnc, most are taking away from them, and making them look cheap.
I am just about finished with making a CNC lathe. I will STILL be using V-grooves for the points though. I will just have an X and Y axis control on the lathe.
I plan on making a CNC router as well in the near future for doing some intricate inlay work but I will always use chisels to sharpen the points when necessary. I don't feel that every cuemaker needs to do that, but I feel it's best for me to do so.
Mr. Wayne, I understand how you feel about cue making and how seriously you take it. I also understand that you have an excellent reputation. I also know that the way you have posted about Dennis Searing will have a tendency to put a lot of people off and it makes you seem narcissistic.
Different strokes for different folks I suppose.
Jaden
MR. Wayne Is Entitled To His Opinion....even if he's in left field.....
The top CNC expert from Alaska is entitled to his opinion and admittedly he's expressed some questionable comments but that's how he feels. However, his attitude remarks infer, unintentional or not, that he's seems jealous of the fame and esteem that some cue-makers have garnished and I might add deservedly so. Unfortunately, he just isn't in the same league as these other cue-makers and it must frustrate him to no end......as evidenced by his rants and raves about Dennis Searing.
But the best is when photos of his cues appear and the sharp points are aren't there.....OMG.....those cues must have just been prototypes I suppose? Seems to be it's bad enough living in Alaska but when you also exist in a glass house at the same time.....well, maybe someone should tell him it's not smart to be throwing stones at others.....certainly not at the great named cue-makers which I'm sure he'd love to be considered.
Well, look at it tis way...... it's not so bad playing AA professional baseball....ots of players never even are good enough to play there. But everyone knows the best baseball players "in the world" play baseball in MLB. Double AA is where you learn and sharpen your skills and if you ever become good enough, maybe you'll get called up to the majors where the big boys play. Mr. Wayne may earn his way there eventually, although by now it probably should have already happened given how long he's been making cues.
However, it doesn't help his image any by being maligning other cue-makers, let alone the great ones. It only diminishes his cue-making skills and he reminds me of the little chihuahua dog on a leash that's barking wildly at a nearby great dane....that little chihuahua knows if that great dane were to just growl fiercely toward the lkittle dog, that chihuahua would dash away and yelp all the way home because it's overwhelmingly outmatched.....sort of like the cue-maker from Alaska.......tsh tsh tsh......can't we all get along......apparently not!
The top CNC expert from Alaska is entitled to his opinion and admittedly he's expressed some questionable comments but that's how he feels. However, his attitude remarks infer, unintentional or not, that he's seems jealous of the fame and esteem that some cue-makers have garnished and I might add deservedly so. Unfortunately, he just isn't in the same league as these other cue-makers and it must frustrate him to no end......as evidenced by his rants and raves about Dennis Searing.
But the best is when photos of his cues appear and the sharp points are aren't there.....OMG.....those cues must have just been prototypes I suppose? Seems to be it's bad enough living in Alaska but when you also exist in a glass house at the same time.....well, maybe someone should tell him it's not smart to be throwing stones at others.....certainly not at the great named cue-makers which I'm sure he'd love to be considered.
Well, look at it tis way...... it's not so bad playing AA professional baseball....ots of players never even are good enough to play there. But everyone knows the best baseball players "in the world" play baseball in MLB. Double AA is where you learn and sharpen your skills and if you ever become good enough, maybe you'll get called up to the majors where the big boys play. Mr. Wayne may earn his way there eventually, although by now it probably should have already happened given how long he's been making cues.
However, it doesn't help his image any by being maligning other cue-makers, let alone the great ones. It only diminishes his cue-making skills and he reminds me of the little chihuahua dog on a leash that's barking wildly at a nearby great dane....that little chihuahua knows if that great dane were to just growl fiercely toward the lkittle dog, that chihuahua would dash away and yelp all the way home because it's overwhelmingly outmatched.....sort of like the cue-maker from Alaska.......tsh tsh tsh......can't we all get along......apparently not!
Your post is one of least tasteful and totally out of line of the whole thread. This thread had pretty much died and you brought this up to stir the pot. I mean no disrespect to anyone including yourself. But to call these other cuemakers the big dogs and Thomas the Chihuahua is so wrong. Thomas is one of the big dogs. He does come across like he knows he is one of the big dogs, and that puts some people off, but he does back it up with his work. It was Thomas and a few others pushing cue design to levels others had not even dreamed of that paved the way for collectors to be willing to pay the high dollar for cues that they pay. His work now is better than his earlier work. But isn't everyones? Yet, most of the guys you would refer to as big dogs will probably never achieve an artistic level or price level that Thomas was at 15 years ago.
He is a Hall of Fame cuemaker so he has run with the big dogs for a long time. He has been one of the leaders of the pack for a couple of decades. I know he might have written some things that would have been better left unsaid. But these overkill responses like yours and others has now made him decide to quit sharing his expertise with those of us who really appreciated it. The cuemakers.