Why is everyone freaking out about 9ball?

cleary

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
Ok, I get it. You all think 9 ball is too easy. But why is everyone freaking out all of a sudden? I saw the article Jerry wrote on the main page and the other 25 threads started about it but are players really better than ever before? So much so that games are becoming TOO simple?

I have my dvr set to record anything billiards.... and I watch a lot of matches from the 90s and yes... the level of play is a little higher with men and a LOT higher for women. But is the level of play better than it was 50 years ago? 20 years ago? Or are there just more people that compete on the pro level?

I dont think SVB makes 9 ball look any easier than Thorsten Hohmann makes straight pool look.

Just my thoughts for whatever they are worth.... im guessing less than two cents.
 
I think 9B is dieing because the level of play has advanced in recent times...for the following two reasons:

1) The players are not necessarily more gifted, but the average level of pool knowledge is greatly increased. You no longer have to spend 10 years on the tournament trail to gain the intimate knowledge that it takes to win tournaments. You can thank Pat Fleming more than anyone for that. Ask any old 1P player what he thinks of the young guns.

2) The playing conditions have neutered the 9B game. They are playing on perfect (fast) cloth on better designed/constructed tables with robotic-like racking.

Knowledge of how to break (speed, spin, & angle) and perfect conditions is what allows the soft break to work so consistently. With that in hand, the game is trivial at the upper echelons.

FWIW, the IPT recognized the above and took all of that away by playing 8B on slow cloth.
 
I think the point is....its not all of a sudden. Atleast for me it isnt. It just took someone like Jerry, who in our world, has clout, to say what needed to be said. Also I think it needs to be said that, for the average to above average player, 9 ball is fine. For amatuer tournaments its fine, for regional tours its fine. But for gamblimg, and for professional tournaments, I just think the sentement is that we should switch to something (not harder) just more fair. Something that takes some of the luck out of it. Obviously its not too easy, how many 1000 accu-stats have you seen? So there is room for improvement. Its just taking some of the elements out of the game that are unsavory to the accomplished player.
 
FL. Pro tour is 10 ball

JoeyInCali said:
Just make it 10-ball.
The Camel Tour tried it years ago.
Click to expand...
The Florida Pro Tour is and has been 10 ball. Ever since I've been going atleast. BTW It's the only real Mens tour running. IMHO.
 
cleary said:
Ok, I get it. You all think 9 ball is too easy. But why is everyone freaking out all of a sudden? I saw the article Jerry wrote on the main page and the other 25 threads started about it but are players really better than ever before? So much so that games are becoming TOO simple?

I have my dvr set to record anything billiards.... and I watch a lot of matches from the 90s and yes... the level of play is a little higher with men and a LOT higher for women. But is the level of play better than it was 50 years ago? 20 years ago? Or are there just more people that compete on the pro level?

I dont think SVB makes 9 ball look any easier than Thorsten Hohmann makes straight pool look.

Just my thoughts for whatever they are worth.... im guessing less than two cents.
Click to expand...

Calm down. No one's freaking out. :) I would like to say, respectfully, that you may have missed the main point of the article. It's not necessarily that 9-ball is too easy, it's that making a ball on the break is too predictable if the rack is tight.

A perfect rack is a fair rack, so that is a good thing that we want to keep. However, the geometry of the 9-ball rack is such that, if the rack is perfect, the wing ball is virtually guaranteed to go right in. That is why, in the WPC 2007, for example, you saw on one of the TV tables that every player was doing an ultra-soft break, probably under 10 MPH I would guess. The 1-ball would creep up and sit next to the side pocket every time, and maybe only one other ball would pass the side pocket.

That leads people to discuss (not freak out, mind you ;)) the issue of whether or not this is what we want for rotation pool moving forward, and if not, what is the best solution to prevent it. Non-perfect racks? Require a harder break somehow? Install whack-a-mole system in the corner pocket to block the wing ball? Change the shape of the rack and add a ball? Ding ding ding!
 
Cuebacca said:
Calm down. No one's freaking out. :) I would like to say, respectfully, that you may have missed the main point of the article. It's not necessarily that 9-ball is too easy, it's that making a ball on the break is too predictable if the rack is tight.

A perfect rack is a fair rack, so that is a good thing that we want to keep. However, the geometry of the 9-ball rack is such that, if the rack is perfect, the wing ball is virtually guaranteed to go right in. That is why, in the WPC 2007, for example, you saw on one of the TV tables that every player was doing an ultra-soft break, probably under 10 MPH I would guess. The 1-ball would creep up and sit next to the side pocket every time, and maybe only one other ball would pass the side pocket.

That leads people to discuss (not freak out, mind you ;)) the issue of whether or not this is what we want for rotation pool moving forward, and if not, what is the best solution to prevent it. Non-perfect racks? Require a harder break somehow? Install whack-a-mole system in the corner pocket to block the wing ball? Change the shape of the rack and add a ball? Ding ding ding!
Click to expand...

Tap, Tap, Tap good reiteration of my thoughts
 
mosconiac said:
I think 9B is dieing because the level of play has advanced in recent times...for the following two reasons:

1) The players are not necessarily more gifted, but the average level of pool knowledge is greatly increased. You no longer have to spend 10 years on the tournament trail to gain the intimate knowledge that it takes to win tournaments. You can thank Pat Fleming more than anyone for that. Ask any old 1P player what he thinks of the young guns.

2) The playing conditions have neutered the 9B game. They are playing on perfect (fast) cloth on better designed/constructed tables with robotic-like racking.

Knowledge of how to break (speed, spin, & angle) and perfect conditions is what allows the soft break to work so consistently. With that in hand, the game is trivial at the upper echelons.

FWIW, the IPT recognized the above and took all of that away by playing 8B on slow cloth.
Click to expand...

INTERESTING take..

1) Totally agree. Match videos/Instructional books-DVDs/fixed base and traveling pool schools all have VASTLY increased the available of pool knowledge.

2) I'm not sure that fast cloth makes the game easier. I'm not disagreeing with you...I just don't know. But with Mosconi running 526 and Cranfield running 768 on slow cloth, how much easier could today's cloth be? Could a player today run 800-1,000 because of the cloth? And TAP TAP re: robotic racking, compounded by the nonsensical winner breaks rule that combine to convert "matches" into 1 man exhibitions of running simple little half table eight ball patterns. BORRRRRRING! (-:

Regards,
Jim
 
cleary said:
...But why is everyone freaking out all of a sudden?...
Click to expand...
Because an Englishman won the World Pool Championships. Not only that, but two of them made the final four! Thus, the sky is falling.

I kid. ;)
 
Well Im sure somewhere in the world there is a World championship event for CHECKERS. I aint interested. Now as everyone knows CHESS is much tougher and gets my and many more respect. Even those of us that dont excel in it.
Nine Ball is getting like CHECKERS. We need something more complex and harder. I think Jerry is right on it.
 
yobagua said:
Nine Ball is getting like CHECKERS. We need something more complex and harder. I think Jerry is right on it.
Click to expand...

Checkers is that easy, anyone can play. You've got action.
 
CUEBACCA..."That leads people to discuss (not freak out, mind you ) the issue of whether or not this is what we want for rotation pool moving forward, and if not, what is the best solution to prevent it. Non-perfect racks? Require a harder break somehow? Install whack-a-mole system in the corner pocket to block the wing ball? Change the shape of the rack and add a ball? Ding ding ding!
__________________

Right! Ban tapped racks...move the racking spot...require at least 3 balls to pass the centerline.

I don't think that 10 Ball is the answer because A) most of the issues with 9 Ball can be addressed with your suggestions and/or mine and others and B) TV is indespensible to the popularity of the game and there are already too many shots/games edited out. I may be a minority of one but the massive editing of the WPC matches was so frustrating, I stopped wathing it. They just "fast forwarded" through the matchs...often showing only 2 or 3 shots in a LOT of racks. The rhythm and flow of the game was just completely destroyed by the editing.

I realize that there were a lot of matches and they HAD to give all the countries exposure in order to cater to the world market so maybe they did it because they thought they had to but for me at least, with certain notable exceptions, it was unwatchable.

Regards,
Jim
 
Cuebacca said:
Calm down. No one's freaking out. :) I would like to say, respectfully, that you may have missed the main point of the article. It's not necessarily that 9-ball is too easy, it's that making a ball on the break is too predictable if the rack is tight.

A perfect rack is a fair rack, so that is a good thing that we want to keep. However, the geometry of the 9-ball rack is such that, if the rack is perfect, the wing ball is virtually guaranteed to go right in. That is why, in the WPC 2007, for example, you saw on one of the TV tables that every player was doing an ultra-soft break, probably under 10 MPH I would guess. The 1-ball would creep up and sit next to the side pocket every time, and maybe only one other ball would pass the side pocket.

That leads people to discuss (not freak out, mind you ;)) the issue of whether or not this is what we want for rotation pool moving forward, and if not, what is the best solution to prevent it. Non-perfect racks? Require a harder break somehow? Install whack-a-mole system in the corner pocket to block the wing ball? Change the shape of the rack and add a ball? Ding ding ding!
Click to expand...

Rep to you, you are spot on, but don't tell me to calm down because I AM FREAKING OUT!:D
 
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